Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

[waywardJim]

I have many Christian friends who I suspect do not actually believe in God, Jesus or the bible. Some of these people say that they feel that there may be a higher power. They say that they feel that life has a purpose and that consciousness doesn't die as the body dies. So they go to church and call themselves Christians even though the don't actually believe much about what Christians say.

I have asked two of my friends about this in the last year why they live a lie and both friends said that they believe there is something out there but they don't know what it is so to play it safe they decide that they are Christians just in case Christians are right about God.

This type of thinking from what I understand is called Pascal's Wager. They are already more moral than most true Christians I know so they take on the Christian label and give up their Sundays just in case the Christians are right.

My question is this: Even if you live the most sin free life, call yourself a Christian, occasionally pray, read the bible, never miss church and spread the word of God; if you don't whole heartedly believe in the Christian God of the Bile then you are going to hell right?

[Nobar King]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

Are you sure that your friends decided to be Christian, or were they born into Christian families, but haven't yet found their way to the true nature of Jesus?

[Jedediah]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

Correct. False Christians will burn in hell.

Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Being a false Christian will get you no further than a vocal atheo-fascist. A True Christian™ who has repented, has been washed in the Blood of Jesus, and sins no more knows in his or her heart that he or she has been Saved®.

Unsaved as you are, you would not know how it feels to abide in True Christian Perfection™ and be completely filled with the Holy Spirit, but trust me... A Heaven-bound True Christian™ like myself has absolutely no doubt that he will spend eternity pressed against the bosom of Jesus. As a True Christian™ filled with the Holy Ghost, I have a richness of experience that unsaved trash like yourself cannot even begin to comprehend. My spine is tingling just thinking about it!

Acts 7:55-56
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Do your false Christian friends believe in miracles? Do they believe God will answer their prayers? Do they believe in Biblical prophecy? If they expect a miracle or answered prayer when they have such little faith, then they do so in vain. The LORD of Hosts will no more answer their flaccid prayers than he will grant the vain wishes of an atheo-fascist because they have no more faith than an atheo-fascist! And they will spend eternity in the lake of fire with all the other non-believers and false believers, because they do not have the Holy Ghost within them.

So tell me, Wayward Jim. I have not seen you on our forums in some time. Where do you currently stand with your Creator? Are you ready to turn your life over to Him, or are you still wallowing in depravity and in futile rebellion against Him? As always, we're here for you when you are ready to walk with Christ.

YIC

[landoverlover]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

I have many Christian friends who I suspect do not actually believe in God, Jesus or the bible. Some of these people say that they feel that there may be a higher power. They say that they feel that life has a purpose and that consciousness doesn't die as the body dies. So they go to church and call themselves Christians even though the don't actually believe much about what Christians say.

I have asked two of my friends about this in the last year why they live a lie and both friends said that they believe there is something out there but they don't know what it is so to play it safe they decide that they are Christians just in case Christians are right about God.

This type of thinking from what I understand is called Pascal's Wager. They are already more moral than most true Christians I know so they take on the Christian label and give up their Sundays just in case the Christians are right.

My question is this: Even if you live the most sin free life, call yourself a Christian, occasionally pray, read the bible, never miss church and spread the word of God; if you don't whole heartedly believe in the Christian God of the Bile then you are going to hell right?

YES you are going to hell. Let us be absolutely clear on that. Here are some examples:

1. Mother Teresa is at this very moment in hell, trying in vain to bat out the eternal flames in the lake of fire with those scrawny old-lady arms. Why? She PRETENDED BEING A PAPIST for 50 years. Look it up. She didn't even believe her own BS for half a century, doing exactly what your friends suggest.

2. If Adolph Hitler repented his sins in the last 10 seconds of his life, he is now sipping champagne in heaven while the six million Jews he killed are all in hell.

3. If John Wayne Gacy, the homer-killing clown, repented on his deathbed he too is dancing on those gold brick streets with Jesus while every one of the homersexual people he killed are being anally raped in hell by satan.

You think you can wink at God, say "Jesus is coming, look busy" and fool the Master of the universe by faking your way with a Cliff Notes Bible cheat?

Do you say stupid things like, "I'm spiritual, not religious" ? Being "good" and "spiritual" and "nice" is not what God wants. He wants SOLDIERS IN HIS ARMY, suited up in spiritual armor, clamoring for a fight and publicly declaring their faith.

Son, you can't get away with this. There's no wiggle-room. There's no such thing as a mostly "sin-free life." We are ALL sinners and it is only by the grace of God that your ratty little soul has any chance of escaping the flames. Repent, get on your knees, and tithe. No, not later, NOW. You're dangling by a thread my young friend.

[waywardJim]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

There is a pretty even split in regards to the families I know fairly well. Some seem like Church type families, others are hardcore Christian families and others seem like they have no strong orientation in any direction.

Specifically the fellow who confessed to me that he doesn't buy much of the Christian message comes from a lukewarm Christian family and the girl that confessed her Agnosticism comes from an Assemblies of God family.

It just seems like such a strange life to go through the motions claiming to believe in Christianity and spreading the word of God when they really don't believe. I told them that they were going to hell anyway if hell exists because a false faith for the sake of avoiding hell surely land you in hell.

They say thats probably not true since they feel that they are good people and that they are trying. From what I know about Christianity just living right and going through the motions lands you in the same situation with the Devil worshiping murderers right?

[waywardJim]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

Thanks for the replies that cam while I was typing my reply to Nobar King.

[waywardJim]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

....................................... Being a false Christian will get you no further than a vocal atheo-fascist. ........................... Do your false Christian friends believe in miracles? Do they believe God will answer their prayers? Do they believe in Biblical prophecy? If they expect a miracle or answered prayer when they have such little faith, then they do so in vain. The LORD of Hosts will no more answer their flaccid prayers than he will grant the vain ................................... Where do you currently stand with your Creator? Are you ready to turn your life over to Him, or are you still wallowing in depravity and in futile rebellion against Him? As always, we're here for you when you are ready to walk with Christ.

YIC

Thanks for the reply. I was sure I was right but since I was advising others I wanted to make certain.

As far as believing in miracles I imagine that it is possible that they do since they also entertain the idea of any higher power. I know they pray and I suppose they do because they want God to answer their prayers. I am sure they do not believe in Biblical prophecy but now I am really taking a shot in the dark guessing.

Thanks for noticing that I hadn't posed lately. This forum in easy to ready and hard to post on. Much of what i would ask or say has been asked and said. To answer you question about my search for faith, you would say that I have backslid. Its been a year since I prayed. I have begun to read fewer books such as Norman Geisler's, "I don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist", and have opted to listen to Atheist Liberal shows such as "The Non-Prophets" http://www.nonprophetsradio.com/

P.S. Geisler's book would turn any Agnostic into an Atheist.

I wouldn't say that I am rebelling against God. I have looked for 15 years now and so far he just doesn't seem to be there.

[ManyPaths]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

If they don't like everything about christianity they should just pay attention to all the good parts of the bible and go find some more spiritual wisdom from other religions. Thats what I do and I'm way spiritual compared to most of the christians I know. Thats why I like it at the universalist unitarian church everyone kind of believes whatever they want to and its all good. I don't think it really mateers what you believe just as long as you belief in SOMETHING. As long as what you do makes you a more spirtual and deep person then you'll eventually become one with the infinite wheter that means god or buddha or allah or brhama. All religion is such a beutiful and wonderful thing if you ignore the bad staff and everyone should learn from all of them instead of worrying about whether their picking the right one.

[Nobar King]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

If they don't like everything about christianity they should just pay attention to all the good parts of the bible and go find some more spiritual wisdom from other religions. Thats what I do and I'm way spiritual compared to most of the christians I know. Thats why I like it at the universalist unitarian church everyone kind of believes whatever they want to and its all good. I don't think it really mateers what you believe just as long as you belief in SOMETHING. As long as what you do makes you a more spirtual and deep person then you'll eventually become one with the infinite wheter that means god or buddha or allah or brhama. All religion is such a beutiful and wonderful thing if you ignore the bad staff and everyone should learn from all of them instead of worrying about whether their picking the right one.

There is so much wrong with this post that my head is spinning. In fact, I tried to find something that you missed that could possibly be right, but I couldn't. You can keep picking your own path, but you're still going to hell. If you're not going to follow a religious discipline entirely, I don't see the reason for doing it at all. What's the point?

[waywardJim]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

Do you say stupid things like, "I'm spiritual, not religious" ? Being "good" and "spiritual" and "nice" is not what God wants. He wants SOLDIERS IN HIS ARMY, suited up in spiritual armor, clamoring for a fight and publicly declaring their faith....................

Thanks for the information on Mother Teresa. I will look that up. Spiritual is exactly what I hear all the time. It seems that someone who is spiritual is halfway to becoming an American Taliban or as I like to call them, Baptists. I think religion has 2 major steps. One is believing in anything super natural and the second is picking a supernatural belief. So the Spiritual people are halfway there and I believe they make up the majority.

[Jedediah]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

New Age Crap

Shut it, trollop. You have nothing of worth to say, and you are only placing more distance between yourself and your Creator with your inane babbling.

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

To answer you question about my search for faith, you would say that I have backslid. Its been a year since I prayed. I have begun to read fewer books such as Norman Geisler's, "I don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist", and have opted to listen to Atheist Liberal shows such as "The Non-Prophets" http://www.nonprophetsradio.com/

P.S. Geisler's book would turn any Agnostic into an Atheist.

I wouldn't say that I am rebelling against God. I have looked for 15 years now and so far he just doesn't seem to be there.

Do you have a copy of the Authorized King James Version of 1611? I don't see how anyone can read it and not become a believer.

Isaiah 40:80
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

It seems that you are in need of guidance. I am sure this is why God has brought you to these forums. He has a purpose for you, whether you realize it or not. He wants you to join Him in Heaven for all eternity, which is why He guided you to us. I do hope that you are learning the ways of True Christianity™ so that you have an example to follow as you, bit by bit, come closer and closer to seeking His Face. My family and I shall continue to pray for your wretched, wanton soul.

Thank you for the tip on the book. I will add it to the list for our fall bonfire.

Proverbs 28:14
Happy is the man that feareth alway: but he that hardeneth his heart shall fall into mischief.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

There is a pretty even split in regards to the families I know fairly well. Some seem like Church type families, others are hardcore Christian families and others seem like they have no strong orientation in any direction.

Specifically the fellow who confessed to me that he doesn't buy much of the Christian message comes from a lukewarm Christian family and the girl that confessed her Agnosticism comes from an Assemblies of God family.

It just seems like such a strange life to go through the motions claiming to believe in Christianity and spreading the word of God when they really don't believe. I told them that they were going to hell anyway if hell exists because a false faith for the sake of avoiding hell surely land you in hell.

They say thats probably not true since they feel that they are good people and that they are trying. From what I know about Christianity just living right and going through the motions lands you in the same situation with the Devil worshiping murderers right?

Pretty scary that a liebral atheist understands it better than a false christian.

[Nobar King]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

It seems that someone who is spiritual is halfway to becoming an American Taliban or as I like to call them, Baptists.

I see what you did there.

[waywardJim]

Re: Non Christian Christians and Pascal's Wager

........................Do you have a copy of the Authorized King James Version of 1611? ......................

I do not own a copy since it is available online. I only buy books if their is no other way to get the information. http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/index.html