[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Peace be upon you

As i said earlier, you are being selective. you didn't attempt to review the sites properly, otherwise you would have taken longer to respond. Nevermind. Hopefully, God Almighty will give you patience and tolerance.

Peace Be Upon You

[Brother Seb]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

The evil moslems have invented human bombs. Only the cowardly could do these things. Jesus wept.

I shall pray for your soul tonight.

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

PS some of them are repeats. Sorry! but each website has something new as well as repeats.

Here's another one (repeat but relevant)

http://www.dailybubble.com/archives/2006/03/13/islamic-inventions-that-beat-the-west.php

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Yes, actions do speak louder than words. Hence these websites, which list so many inventions, many recent ones too.

I just asked for one. One invention from the past 500 years.

Did you know that, minus oil, the entire Islamic world exports the same amount of goods as FINLAND?

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/islam/science.htm

"This Wonderful Book Has Helped Bring 1,000s to Learn And Understand The True Islam"

Helped bring one thousands? Huh? Now Muslims have forgotten how to COUNT? "Ones, Twos, Threes, One thousands, Two thousands...."

http://digg.com/videos/educational/I...nged_the_world

This video has been removed due to terms of use violation.

Why is that? Oh right, because muslims had to COPY IT instead of creating their own movie.

http://www.wonderfulinfo.com/winfo/muslminv2.htm

This "list of 20" only gives me 2: #7 and #8, both of which were invented more than 500 years ago.

All you've done is proved that muslims are too technically incompetant to even use the internet. THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON ISLAM.

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Name them.



So you're saying that Muslims have not been Muslims for the past 500 years?

Seriously, start googling and find me something Muslims have invented in the past 500 years.



The middle east may have been judenfrei since 1948, but there were many Jews all over the Islamic world before your culture decided to scapegoat Israel for your failures. UN figures show that 856,000 Jewish residents left Arab countries in 1948:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/04/america/nations.php

That's right: there were more Israeli refugees than Palestinian ones. Yet look who is prospering, and look who is living in squalor and violence, blaming it all their fellow refugees?



I never said Islam invented violence. But the rest of the world has grown up and outgrown violence while the Islamic world is still in it's "terrible twos".



Well, any seculrist could say Turks are not "real" secularists and Maoists and Leninists could say the PKK are not "real" communists just like you say they're not "real" Muslims. Like Communists said Stalin was not a "real" communist.

Look, I'm just judging Islam by it's fruits. You can preach peace and progress but actions speak louder than words.

Also, on the Jewish topic. After the First World War, Britain wanted to remove the Jews in England and place them somewhere else, as there was a lot of anti-jewish sentiment at the time (the word anti-semetic is a misnomer, as arabs are semites as well). They proceeded to forcefully give Jewish settlers land in Palestine from that time on, and as you can understand there was opposition from those who had their lands taken from them. The fact is Jews lived in Europe mainly for almost a thousand years, and moving onto lands that were already being lived one was always going to cause opposition. What if an American Indian entered your home and said that it was built on his ancestral land and you had to leave? What about the millions of Palestinians misplaces and forced to leave their homes.? Are their rights to be ignored? If you attempted to honestly consider Islam, you would get something out of it, as a pose to these blogs. Also, I should state that I could argue in the same way that you do about America. What about the Millions of Afghans and Iraqis Killed or misplaced from the so called "War On Terror", and ironic name as it has caused so much terror. You realise, dont you, that before America invaded Afghanistan, perhaps 0.000001% of Muslims knew about Osama Bin Laden. Know, America's invasion and the numerous American massacres in Iraq and Afghanistan have only convinced young Muslims that the terrorist Osama is correct. What about the fighting in Somalia which tore the nationa apart? It never recovered from America's involvement onwards. What about Vietnam, and the My Lai Massacre, and the defoliation of most of Vietnam's forests. If I judged American Capitalism and Conservatism by these fruits, then ofcourse I would hold them in a bad light. The truth is that you are picking and choosing the "fruits" which you think are bad for Islam. You arent considering the benefits Islam has given the World.

Peace be upon you.

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Name them.



So you're saying that Muslims have not been Muslims for the past 500 years?

Seriously, start googling and find me something Muslims have invented in the past 500 years.



The middle east may have been judenfrei since 1948, but there were many Jews all over the Islamic world before your culture decided to scapegoat Israel for your failures. According to United Nations statistics, 856,000 Middle-eastern Jewish residents fled their homes in 1948.



I never said Islam invented violence. But the rest of the world has grown up and outgrown violence while the Islamic world is still in it's "terrible twos".



Well, any seculrist could say Turks are not "real" secularists and Maoists and Leninists could say the PKK are not "real" communists just like you say they're not "real" Muslims. Like Communists said Stalin was not a "real" communist.

Look, I'm just judging Islam by it's fruits. You can preach peace and progress but actions speak louder than words.

Peace be upon you, and all the blessing of the almighty

Yes, actions do speak louder than words. Hence these websites, which list so many inventions, many recent ones too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventions_in_the_Muslim_world

http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.viewSection&intSectionID=309

http://www.wonderfulinfo.com/winfo/muslminv2.htm

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/ihame/Sec12.htm (architecture mainly)

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/islam/science.htm

http://digg.com/videos/educational/Islamic_Inventions_Scientific_Contributions_that_changed_the_world

http://muslimheritage.com/ (search for Islamic/Muslim inventions)

Thank you for your response,

Peace be upon you

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Also, there are a myriad of things that Muslims invented recently

Name them.

because the Quran orders Muslims to learn, and that is why so many muslims invented and considered so many topics.

So you're saying that Muslims have not been Muslims for the past 500 years?

Seriously, start googling and find me something Muslims have invented in the past 500 years.

Jews and Zoroastrians would not have done the same, because I would remind you that Jews were a part of the European community at the time,

The middle east may have been judenfrei since 1948, but there were many Jews all over the Islamic world before your culture decided to scapegoat Israel for your failures. UN figures show that 856,000 Jewish residents left Arab countries in 1948:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/04/america/nations.php

That's right: there were more Israeli refugees than Palestinian ones. Yet look who is prospering, and look who is living in squalor and violence, blaming it all their fellow refugees?

Also, what about the racism against African Americans which occurred so recently in history? Were they not Christian? What of the conflicts in Ireland?

I never said Islam invented violence. But the rest of the world has grown up and outgrown violence while the Islamic world is still in it's "terrible twos".

Also, I would note that many of the conflicts are less to do with religion and more to do with ethnicity, by which I mean that those involved are not observing the teachings of Islam. For instance Turkish Army forces have long been noted for seculerism, and the Kurdish fighters are Maoists and Leninists for a long time now.

Well, any seculrist could say Turks are not "real" secularists and Maoists and Leninists could say the PKK are not "real" communists just like you say they're not "real" Muslims. Like Communists said Stalin was not a "real" communist.

Look, I'm just judging Islam by it's fruits. You can preach peace and progress but actions speak louder than words.

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Answer the questions, sand nigra.

1.The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).

Question: Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment? How do you know?


2. The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.

Question: How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
Question: Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you MIGHT receive forgiveness?
Question: If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
Question: Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
Question: If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Question: If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?


3. In Christianity, Jesus is God in flesh who paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him, (Eph. 2:8-9).

Question: Why should we Christians give up our guaranteed Salvation© in Jesus for the requirements of your Qur'anic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?


4. In the Bible, Jesus said in John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In Christianity, the greatest act of love is performed by God Himself -- since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9). Jesus is the one who fulfilled His own words on this. He laid His life down for us.

Question: What is the greatest act of love performed by Allah?
Question: If what Jesus said is true, then hasn't someone besides Allah performed the greatest act of love?
Question: Why do you, as a Muslim, want us to give up such a great love performed by God Himself for your belief in Allah who only loves people if they are Muslims, and under certain circumstances?


5. Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit lives in True Christians™.

Question: If the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit, how can he dwell in us?

"That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us." (2 Tim. 1:14).

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16).


6. Lying is okay?

Question: Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
Question: Who is more holy, Allah or God?

In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong? If he was not wrong, then Allah approves of lying. Which God is more holy? The God of Christianity is far more holy.

In fact, the God of Christianity is the ONLY TRUE God.

Peace be upon you.

Yes, thankyou for your reminder. As soon as I have the time I will write a response and post it. Please be patient.

PS I think the use of the word gentle in your explanation, "Gentle Pastor of the Flock" may be a misnomer. . Please be a bit more patient, I will post the answers soon.

Peace be upon you

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Answer the questions, sand nigra.

1.The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).

Question: Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment? How do you know?


2. The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.

Question: How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
Question: Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you MIGHT receive forgiveness?
Question: If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
Question: Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
Question: If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Question: If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?


3. In Christianity, Jesus is God in flesh who paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him, (Eph. 2:8-9).

Question: Why should we Christians give up our guaranteed Salvation© in Jesus for the requirements of your Qur'anic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?


4. In the Bible, Jesus said in John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In Christianity, the greatest act of love is performed by God Himself -- since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9). Jesus is the one who fulfilled His own words on this. He laid His life down for us.

Question: What is the greatest act of love performed by Allah?
Question: If what Jesus said is true, then hasn't someone besides Allah performed the greatest act of love?
Question: Why do you, as a Muslim, want us to give up such a great love performed by God Himself for your belief in Allah who only loves people if they are Muslims, and under certain circumstances?


5. Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit lives in True Christians™.

Question: If the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit, how can he dwell in us?

"That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us." (2 Tim. 1:14).

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16).


6. Lying is okay?

Question: Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
Question: Who is more holy, Allah or God?

In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong? If he was not wrong, then Allah approves of lying. Which God is more holy? The God of Christianity is far more holy.

In fact, the God of Christianity is the ONLY TRUE God.

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Really? So how do you explain the Great Library of Alexandria? And Egypt in general? And what has Egypt achieved since it became Muslim?



Oh come on, you came here to teach us about religious tolerance? So tell me, what do you think of your non-brothers: Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, and yes, polytheists...

Peace Be upon you,

The library of Alexandria incident is unlikely to be true. There is not much evidence that the Muslims destroyed it. The story is famous yes, but unlikely to be true, and I have been told so my contemporary Christian historians. When I said they were polytheists everywhere, I was referring to the fact that generally, when people become Polytheists, it marks a time of scientific decline. I love all people, but dislike what they do. Thats what Islam teaches me, and thats what I do. Thanks again,

Peace be upon you.

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

I don't. I just love my neighbor, as the Bible says.



Neighbor means neighbor.



Yes, I see something that was invented more than 500 years ago. Muslims did invent some things, in the few centuries before the cultures they had conquered were completely assimilated. Notice that the cosmopolitan centers of the "Islamic" golden age were all in areas that were previously Christian or Zorastrian. Innovation did not come from Mecca, Medina, or anywhere on the Arabian peninsula, nor has it come from anywhere sufficiently assimilated into Muslim culture.

That's why you can't name anything invented by Muslims in the past 500 years.



Jews, Zorastrians, and "heretics" (Non-Catholic Christians) would have done the same. If the only arguement for Islam is that you're not Catholic, that's a good start but you'll have to do better.



Oh, come on, clockwise starting from the Black Sea:

Chetechya, Kashmir, Thai insurgency, Phillipine insurgency, Sololia's chaos, Darfur, Nigeria's mini-darfur, Turks VS Kurds, and this is without even looking at a map. Just off the top of my head here!



I'm speechless.



Oh, now you want to compare crime rates between the Islamic world and the rest of the world? Oh, this will be FUN.

Peace be with you.

I think that you aren't taking the bible in a wider context. Surely, you agree that the Bible is a message for all mankind? In that case, you agree that its message must be interpreted as such, i.e. in a wider context. Also, there are a myriad of things that Muslims invented recently and otherwise that affect us everyday, and you ought to know that without Islam our world would not be as advanced as it is today. Also, you ought to now that there was a great deal of inspiration from Mecca and Medinah, and Islam specifically, because the Quran orders Muslims to learn, and that is why so many muslims invented and considered so many topics. Jews and Zoroastrians would not have done the same, because I would remind you that Jews were a part of the European community at the time, and for that reason they would not have done so as early as Muslims had. I would note that yes, these texts and knowledgeble things would have came anyway, but it was Muslims who brought them. Also, what about the racism against African Americans which occurred so recently in history? Were they not Christian? What of the conflicts in Ireland? True, they are different types of Christians but profess the Christianity none the less. Also, I would note that many of the conflicts are less to do with religion and more to do with ethnicity, by which I mean that those involved are not observing the teachings of Islam. For instance Turkish Army forces have long been noted for seculerism, and the Kurdish fighters are Maoists and Leninists for a long time now. There are also these kind of factional disputes between so called Christians, but when this occurs it is due to a lack of faith and understanding. Also, I would state that these fights are a micro wars compared to Vietnam, WWII, WWI, Spanish American War, American War of Independence and so on. Thanks alot for taking the time to respond.

Peace be upon you.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Also, you ought to know that before Islam, the mid-east was in the state of Jahiliyah, or ignorance.

Really? So how do you explain the Great Library of Alexandria? And Egypt in general? And what has Egypt achieved since it became Muslim?

and there were polytheists everywhere.

Oh come on, you came here to teach us about religious tolerance? So tell me, what do you think of your non-brothers: Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, and yes, polytheists...

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Peace be with you,

Well for number one, that applies to Christianity as well. If one has a pure intention, and tries to insure that all they do is for the good of God, and the good of mankind, and their community, then that is the surest path to succes, just like in christianity.

Peace be with you.

[DumbWood]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

Answer the questions, camel lover.

1.The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).

Question: Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment? How do you know?


2. The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.

Question: How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
Question: Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you MIGHT receive forgiveness?
Question: If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
Question: Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
Question: If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Question: If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?


3. In Christianity, Jesus is God in flesh who paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him, (Eph. 2:8-9).

Question: Why should we Christians give up our guaranteed Salvation© in Jesus for the requirements of your Qur'anic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?


4. In the Bible, Jesus said in John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In Christianity, the greatest act of love is performed by God Himself -- since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9). Jesus is the one who fulfilled His own words on this. He laid His life down for us.

Question: What is the greatest act of love performed by Allah?
Question: If what Jesus said is true, then hasn't someone besides Allah performed the greatest act of love?
Question: Why do you, as a Muslim, want us to give up such a great love performed by God Himself for your belief in Allah who only loves people if they are Muslims, and under certain circumstances?


5. Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit lives in True Christians™.

Question: If the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit, how can he dwell in us?

"That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us." (2 Tim. 1:14).

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16).


6. Lying is okay?

Question: Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
Question: Who is more holy, Allah or God?

In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong? If he was not wrong, then Allah approves of lying. Which God is more holy? The God of Christianity is far more holy.

In fact, the God of Christianity is the ONLY TRUE God.

Peace be upon you.

I am looking through the quotes brother, i need time to compose responses for such vast criticisms; i need to look up the commentery. Hopefully, ill have answers soon. I have exams at the moment, so it might take a few days even, but never fear. I will answer the questions.

Peace be upon you

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: Judaism, Christianity and Islam - The brother religions

The first thing that I would like to state is that the Bible asks Christians to love their neighbor, does it not? How do you interpret this?

I don't. I just love my neighbor, as the Bible says.

Those priests that I have asked have stated that neighbor means anyone.

Neighbor means neighbor.

1. Look at your wrist watch. See it?

Yes, I see something that was invented more than 500 years ago. Muslims did invent some things, in the few centuries before the cultures they had conquered were completely assimilated. Notice that the cosmopolitan centers of the "Islamic" golden age were all in areas that were previously Christian or Zorastrian. Innovation did not come from Mecca, Medina, or anywhere on the Arabian peninsula, nor has it come from anywhere sufficiently assimilated into Muslim culture.

That's why you can't name anything invented by Muslims in the past 500 years.

without Islam, the Rennaisance would never have occurred, for it was Muslims who rediscovered the ancient greek philosophical texts, which Europeans had forgotten about.

Jews, Zorastrians, and "heretics" (Non-Catholic Christians) would have done the same. If the only arguement for Islam is that you're not Catholic, that's a good start but you'll have to do better.

2. Show me a war right now that doesnt involve Americans.

Oh, come on, clockwise starting from the Black Sea:

Chetechya, Kashmir, Thai insurgency, Phillipine insurgency, Sololia's chaos, Darfur, Nigeria's mini-darfur, Turks VS Kurds, and this is without even looking at a map. Just off the top of my head here!

3. I would respond by saying that most Muslims assimilate well in Australia, and throughout the world.

I'm speechless.

Also, in response to your statement about being the most peaceful place in the world, have you seen the statistics on how many people are murdered each year in America?

Oh, now you want to compare crime rates between the Islamic world and the rest of the world? Oh, this will be FUN.