[Hitoshi]

Re: God is

if tree fall in forest I am hope this guy underneath



nobody is impress with your dummy logic okay falsie. I have philosophy question I am want for find out answer...what is sound of one hand slapping your face. now do everyone favor and shut up dummy.

[Unfalsifiable]

Re: God is

No, I just showed you something imaginary that is greater than God. Azathoth is an imaginary being who exist in the “center” of the Universe, and created it. Your’ god is an imaginary being who lives up in the sky of this planet, created only this world, is unaware of the universe as whole and can’t deal with iron chariots.

Of course Azathoth is a work of fiction (and too bad you can’t see your god is too, you should try reading some ancient history) the Big Bang is quite real and quite provable as the creator of the universe we live in (you know, all that pesky scientific crap about falsifiable and predictable observations). You want to call the Big Bang "god" and start worshiping it?

I already answered this, why are you repeating yourself and embarrasing yourself as you go along?

I said the thing of which nothing greater can be conceived, you said you could conceive of greater (illogical).

Anyway, to wash away the poor method of your post and get to the heart of it (again) you are saying how do we know what this greatest perfect God IS. You have been unable to say that he does not exist, so now you are asking what he is.

Well for that we just look at the Bible, we have established he exists with logic, there was going to be no better prize offered. What he is, is another question.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: God is

Allah (swt) is an omniscient, omnipotent force who influences all things.

No, he's not. He's a false moon-god. May piss be upon him.

[Ali al-Rashid]

Re: God is

Allah (swt) is an omniscient, omnipotent force who influences all things.

[JennyD]

Re: God is

No, I just showed you something imaginary that is greater than God. Azathoth is an imaginary being who exist in the “center” of the Universe, and created it. Your’ god is an imaginary being who lives up in the sky of this planet, created only this world, is unaware of the universe as whole and can’t deal with iron chariots.

Of course Azathoth is a work of fiction (and too bad you can’t see your god is too, you should try reading some ancient history) the Big Bang is quite real and quite provable as the creator of the universe we live in (you know, all that pesky scientific crap about falsifiable and predictable observations). You want to call the Big Bang "god" and start worshiping it?

You might as well be worshipping Bur.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: God is

Well, this entire thread is based upon the false premise that one must use logic, regardless of how flawless the reasoning, to reach the unsaved mind.

So what is the next step? Are we to reach out with lovingkindness to try to turn the minds and hearts of those who have hardened themselves to the truths found in the AV1611?

2 Corinthians (AV1611)

1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

--emphasis mine.

Our job is to preach the gospel. That doesn't mean argue the gospel, or debate the gospel, or try to make the gospel pretty so the twisted minds of those who refuse to believe it might like the idea!

Malachi 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.

God curses those who will not hear. Let's not lower ourselves to reason and logic. God wants faith.

Amen, Brother! Logic is no way to get someone saved. Anything you can be talked into, you could be talked out of -- but the Bible makes it clear that Salvation is permanent. Salvation happens in the soul, not in the intellect. Logic has no place in the Plan of Salvation.

Falso, I admire your gumption, but you are never going to convince a hardened atheist by using logic. You have to speak to their conscience. You have to appeal on an emotional level. The Holy Ghost has to convict them of being worthless sinners, totally depraved and hateful in God's sight, and incapable of saving themselves. You cannot Logic someone into getting saved.

To all you no-count atheists reading this thread:

If you want proof that God exists, just look around, dummy! (Rom 1:20) Where do you think all this came from? If God doesn't exist, then Whose blood washed away all my sins? If God doesn't exist, then Who is it that is going to drop-kick your unrepentant hiney straight into the Lake of Fire come Judgment Day?

You loony-toon atheists crack me up.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: God is

You will have to prove that God is the only possible perfect thing.

If there is a perfect thing, then it is perfectly unique. That, too, is a predicate of perfection. Thus, not only is there a God, but there is only one God. With three perfect aspects, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

deliberately taking advantage of ambiguities in the language.

Earthly words fail when we are discussing transcendent concepts such as the Deity. If you know of a language free of ambiguities, we'll gladly discuss theology with you in that tongue.

Utopia is defined as a perfect society in the dictionary.

The garden of Eden was about as close to a perfect society as I can conceive, but even it had one flaw.

Is a perfect God incapable of creating a perfect tree or billy-goat? Wouldn't that make God less than perfect if It only creates imperfect things?

First off, God is a He, not an It. Second, a perfect God can create only imperfect things if He chooses only to create imperfect things. He would hardly be perfect if He created things that he didn't want to create, would He? But why would He create perfect things? That would be creating other gods, but our God (a) is perfectly jealous of His prerogatives as the sole Creator and (b) didn't really need the help.

you are using special pleading when you say that the ontological argument only applies to God.

Once you have proved the existence of God, as Brother Falso has done, you have explained all of the rest of existence.

I'm not buying it. Plato's forms are perfect by definition. They therefore exist by definition, according to your borrowed argument.

What would you call a perfect God's conception of all things that could exist but the Platonic forms? To say that something exists merely because some human being defined it is to confuse the existence of a thing (e.g., a Platonic form) with the existence of a concept of the that thing (e.g., Plato's thoughts on Platonic forms).

I don't agree that God is perfect. I don't agree that God is anything other than a fictional character from a story book.

Thus proving that you are imperfect, and therefore you are not God. Which, I suppose, would have been my guess right up front.

You never addressed my charge that, if perfection necessarily implies existence, then you are assuming your conclusion in your first premise.

Not at all, Falso is on solid logical ground here. How could something nonexistent exist in a perfect state?

Well since all the lurking athiests are posting I suppose I will speak up.

Let them speak, their hollow arguments will fall on deaf ears in here.

Yes, I want to know were Unfallible even gets off saying anything but a minority people believe god is perfect? That’s certainly not how the bible describes god and there are whole cultures that aren’t even monotheistic. Were is the proof god is perfect Unfalsifiable? Is not being able to stop iron chariots what you call perfect?

First, God is a proper name, and I think he's earned at least the right to be capitalized. Second, again, you are confusing a thing (God) with a concept of that thing (polytheistic cultures). Third, God not only can stop iron chariots, but He in fact has stopped iron chariots.

We can also conceive of Azathoth Azathoth certainly fulfills all your conditions for the "perfect" creator god.

Except having actually created anything.

Fankly by the ludicious logic game you are playing both god and Azathoth exist because we magically think them into existance.

Again, why is everyone in here so fired up to think that something exists or doesn't exist only because human beings think of that thing. Lots of things existed before human beings existed, and I wouldn't have thought that to be a controversial statement. See Genesis 1: the heaven, the earth, darkness, the deep, God, the waters, light, Day, Night, evenings and mornings, a firmament (Heaven), waters which were under the firmament, waters which were above the firmament, dry land, Earth, Seas, goodness, grass, herb yielding seeds, fruit trees, lights in Heaven, signs, seasons, 5 days, the Sun, the Moon, the stars, animals birds, flying, whales, birds,blessings, multiplication, cattle, invertebrates, and God's image.

Still, that at least logically drives us all to note that a God exists, we just need to look at the Bible to know WHICH one exists.

Or the Quran or Book of Mormon or Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard (which is pretty much the same as the Book of Mormon) or the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see which gods don't exist.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: God is

No, I just showed you something imaginary that is greater than God. Azathoth is an imaginary being who exist in the “center” of the Universe, and created it. Your’ god is an imaginary being who lives up in the sky of this planet, created only this world, is unaware of the universe as whole and can’t deal with iron chariots.

Of course Azathoth is a work of fiction (and too bad you can’t see your god is too, you should try reading some ancient history) the Big Bang is quite real and quite provable as the creator of the universe we live in (you know, all that pesky scientific crap about falsifiable and predictable observations). You want to call the Big Bang "god" and start worshiping it?

There is much arrant rubbish spoke about the Lord and iron chariots. The Lord is ineffable and, when it suits his plan, with enough Faith, iron chariots are no trouble.

J'g:4:13: And Sisera gathered together all his chariots, even nine hundred chariots of iron, and all the people that were with him, from Harosheth of the Gentiles unto the river of Kishon.
J'g:4:14: And Deborah said unto Barak, Up; for this is the day in which the LORD hath delivered Sisera into thine hand: is not the LORD gone out before thee? So Barak went down from mount Tabor, and ten thousand men after him.
J'g:4:15: And the LORD discomfited Sisera, and all his chariots, and all his host, with the edge of the sword before Barak; so that Sisera lighted down off his chariot, and fled away on his feet.
J'g:4:16: But Barak pursued after the chariots, and after the host, unto Harosheth of the Gentiles: and all the host of Sisera fell upon the edge of the sword; and there was not a man left.


Now get on with your posting and your losing battle as to whether the Lord God of Hosts exists. I know He does, and, come your Death, so will you.

[Underpants Gnome]

Re: God is

This proves this existence of that which nothing greater can be conceived, God.

No, I just showed you something imaginary that is greater than God. Azathoth is an imaginary being who exist in the “center” of the Universe, and created it. Your’ god is an imaginary being who lives up in the sky of this planet, created only this world, is unaware of the universe as whole and can’t deal with iron chariots.

Of course Azathoth is a work of fiction (and too bad you can’t see your god is too, you should try reading some ancient history) the Big Bang is quite real and quite provable as the creator of the universe we live in (you know, all that pesky scientific crap about falsifiable and predictable observations). You want to call the Big Bang "god" and start worshiping it?

[Unfalsifiable]

Re: God is

"A; therefore, A,"

Not true, read thread, "kthx" bye.

[Darren Ingram-Myers]

Re: God is

This thread shows why we should trust in our inner light from Mother/Father God rather than relying on linear, syllogistic, Eurocentric "logic" to prove the existence of God. The ontological argument basically boils down to "A; therefore, A," but that works only in Ayn Rand novels.

[Unfalsifiable]

Re: God is

It drives YOU to note that a God exists. I see no logical reason for one to exist, as you've failed to show that conceived perfection equals reality. Just because you say it's so doesn't make it so.
But let's pretend you're making any sense here and say that your faulty logic shows that a god exists and look at the bible. It says God is perfect. Okay. China also calls itself the People's Republic of China. The Democratic Republic of Congo was named so even when Mobutu ruled it with an iron fist. The bible saying God is perfect doesn't make this so as the rest of the book makes it very clear he is anything but.

Duh, existence is a predicate of perfection. How many times must you be told this... gosh.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Re: God is

Why haven't we deleted this thread yet? I haven't seen this much blasphemy since Easters at the convent.

[Captain James T. Kirk]

Re: God is

Didn't you want scripture? One of you did. I just got the lie that none of you knew what perfection is, or that something other then the Christian God could be God - that is unfaslifiably true in a sense, but essentially these Gods would be the same. As perfection doesn't change, and perfection brought about what we see today.

Still, that at least logically drives us all to note that a God exists, we just need to look at the Bible to know WHICH one exists.

It drives YOU to note that a God exists. I see no logical reason for one to exist, as you've failed to show that conceived perfection equals reality. Just because you say it's so doesn't make it so.
But let's pretend you're making any sense here and say that your faulty logic shows that a god exists and look at the bible. It says God is perfect. Okay. China also calls itself the People's Republic of China. The Democratic Republic of Congo was named so even when Mobutu ruled it with an iron fist. The bible saying God is perfect doesn't make this so as the rest of the book makes it very clear he is anything but.

[Unfalsifiable]

Re: God is

Now you're resorting to scripture? Are you sure you're not a True Fundy™? When you have to use scripture to support any argument other than what the bible has to say about something, you lose that argument.

Didn't you want scripture? One of you did. I just got the lie that none of you knew what perfection is, or that something other then the Christian God could be God - that is unfaslifiably true in a sense, but essentially these Gods would be the same. As perfection doesn't change, and perfection brought about what we see today.

Still, that at least logically drives us all to note that a God exists, we just need to look at the Bible to know WHICH one exists.