[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

That is all there is to it, literally? You just happen to enjoy some tunes by a couple of different bands?


Then why, pray tell,do you make such a big, whiny fuss about it? My niece enjoys Itsy Bitsy Spider, but she doesn't declare to the world that she is a spider.


She hasn't cobbled together an entire so-called subculture requiring special clothes and all sorts of made up words to designate some picayune difference between one group of people listening to music that sounds suspiciously like the music preferred by some other group of people wearing nearly identical clothes.


How desperate are you to fashion some sense of identity? Do you feel so alienated from the mainstream world because you know that you have nothing to offer it? Is that why you let a band become the locus of your personality?


Perhaps I should gather a few like-minded individuals into forming a sub-culture based on the music of John Philip Sousa. We could define ourselves by his songs and wear clothes appropriate to his tunes. We could call ourselves Sousas and we would look very, very silly.


Very.


Sousically Yours,


Handmaiden

No one makes a big fuss about being Goth, except edgy kids who aren't Goth. If you're asking why I am making a big fuss about the comments on here and the list of warning signs, I've already explained that. It is perpetuating a false image of the Goth scene, which causes Goths to be attacked for things they have no association with and have not done.

And what other type of music do bands like Bauhaus sound similar to ? Because they do not sound similar to Marilyn Manson who is Shock Rock, or to Industrial, Rave music, Heavy Metal, etc., Nor do Goths necessarily dress much like other people. Traditional Goth and Deathrock have a very specific image that is hard to obtain for someone who is not a fan of Goth & Deathrock music and is only really similar to Punk and possibly early Rivethead/Industrial fans. Modern Industrial fans dress very very differently. Though there are some people who dress in a Romantic Goth or Victorian Goth style without listening to the music, but that is because those styles have major influences from outside the bands. And there is no manner of dress that makes someone Goth either. Dressing like the bands is not a requirement to being a fan of the music.

No one is "desperate to form an identity" except for edgy fake goths. Goth is just a word we use to describe a part of our likes, a label that helps us find bands that play a certain style of music similar to other bands we like and find clubs that play this style of music. It is not an entire identity and no one is focusing their identity on a band. Goths have other interest outside Goth, Gothic music is just the one thing all Goths have in common and what makes us Goth. It's no different than using the term metalhead to refer to fans of heavy metal. It is referring to one thing they like not everything.

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Most Goths are in same sex relationships and marriages... My best friend recently got married to her boyfriend in a beautiful LaVeyan Satanist ceremony.

This is bound to whip these white people into a frenzy. Baptists hate this kind of talk.

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

You are obviously a godless Goth, no wonder everyone hates you.

Who are you speaking to? It would help if you quoted them. Only atheists and Scientologists are godless. And most Goths have a large group of friends. Are you suggesting the 40+ people dancing in each Goth club all hate each other? It seems a rather silly idea to go out and dance with people you don't like. Or hang out at festivals like Wave Gotik Treffen, Castle Party and Whitby Gothic weekend with people you don't like. Or go to Victorian gothic picnics with people you don't know.

"Quote:
Boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted...

Most Goths are in same sex relationships and marriages.

...More boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted.
Eww!

Thank you for admitting that your race is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord!"

Testimony from an actual goth is evidence. Can you provide evidence that Goths commit school shootings, cut themselves, are all homosexual, are all Satanists, etc.,?

"Music Blame for the shootings was directed on a number of metal or 'dark music' bands such as KMFDM and Rammstein.[104] The majority of that blame was directed at Marilyn Manson and his eponymous band."

None of those bands are Goth; therefore, the Columbine Shooters were not Goths.

And that's not what I said and whoever edited my post knows it. I said most Goths are not in same sex relationships. Maybe if you actually tried reading the rest of my post, you'd realize that part was obviously edited by someone here. Considering I said homosexual and bisexual relationships within the Goth scene are FAR FROM the majority and gave examples of famous Goths, myself and people I know who are in heterosexual male/female relationships.

[handmaiden]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Goths are fans of Goth Rock. People who enjoy listening to Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Angels of Liberty. People who like Goth music. Nothing more. Nothing less.

That is all there is to it, literally? You just happen to enjoy some tunes by a couple of different bands?


Then why, pray tell,do you make such a big, whiny fuss about it? My niece enjoys Itsy Bitsy Spider, but she doesn't declare to the world that she is a spider.


She hasn't cobbled together an entire so-called subculture requiring special clothes and all sorts of made up words to designate some picayune difference between one group of people listening to music that sounds suspiciously like the music preferred by some other group of people wearing nearly identical clothes.


How desperate are you to fashion some sense of identity? Do you feel so alienated from the mainstream world because you know that you have nothing to offer it? Is that why you let a band become the locus of your personality?


Perhaps I should gather a few like-minded individuals into forming a sub-culture based on the music of John Philip Sousa. We could define ourselves by his songs and wear clothes appropriate to his tunes. We could call ourselves Sousas and we would look very, very silly.


Very.


Sousically Yours,


Handmaiden

[Basilissa]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

I am not going to respond to things that are not about what I came to discuss, which is your slander of the Gothic community.

Translation: "I'll ignore everything that I cannot respond to by providing actual evidence."

Boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted...

Most Goths are in same sex relationships and marriages.

...More boring drivel devoid of any actual evidence deleted.

Eww!

Thank you for admitting that your race is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord!

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

[Nobar King]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

You are obviously a godless Goth, no wonder everyone hates you.

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

I am not going to respond to things that are not about what I came to discuss, which is your slander of the Gothic community.

Yes, they are and you reveal yourself as a godless Englishman with your misspelling of behavior. Also, we have no interest in your soft porn dime novels.

No, none of those behaviours are associated with goths. At least not CORRECTLY. Stop confusing misconceptions and stereotypes with facts, please. Again, Goths are fans of Goth rock and that is the only thing they all have in common. It has nothing to do with religion, not Satanism or any other religion. There are some Goths who are Satanist. I will not deny this. I have friends who are LaVeyan Satanists. But there are a lot of people who are not. I'm sure there are people in almost every music scene with a vast array of different religions. Goth is literally just about music.

Most Goths do not cut themselves. That is the act of a teenager crying out for attention, not a Goth. The Goth scene is not rampant with drugs. Most of us do not care for drugs and do not allow it in our clubs.

Marilyn Manson does not play Goth music. Some Goths enjoy his music, but there are an equal amount of Goths who cannot stand him and think he is a talent-less jerk who ripped off and stole from artists we love & his poseur goth fans nearly destroyed our scene. His music sounds nothing like gothic rock.

There is no evidence that any known school shooting was perpetrated by Goths. There is nothing to suggest that these criminals listened to Goth rock at all and the Columbine shooters music tastes were printed and none of the bands were goth. Goths are for the most part very non violent and kind people.

Most Goths are in same sex relationships and marriages. There are people who are homosexual or bisexual within the Goth scene, but it is far from the majority. There are also people like that in other music scenes or who don't even have any specific taste in music. Rozz Williams was married to a woman. Robert Smith is married to a woman. David Vanian and Patricia Morrison are married. DJ Martin Oldgoth, one of the most prominent DJs in the Goth scene, is married to a woman. The Gothic model Lady Amaranth is married to the singer (a guy) from the goth band Pretentious Moi. My best friend recently got married to her boyfriend in a beautiful LaVeyan Satanist ceremony. One of my other best friends are a female fiddler/violinist who is married to the male drummer in her band. I am female and am married to a wonderful man.

Also, I am American. However, I prefer to try to spell things the way the English do because our language comes from them, so I would say theirs is more correct. It's also due to the fact that I have over 500 Gothic novels and most Gothic novels are written by English authors. And they are not porn. Gothic novels written prior to 1990, like Lady of Mallow, involve romance but not any kind of sex or real intimacy. They have a plot and do not need to add trash filler.

[Alvin Moss]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

None of those behaviours are associated with Goths.

Yes, they are and you reveal yourself as a godless Englishman with your misspelling of behavior. Also, we have no interest in your soft porn dime novels.

[Basilissa]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

They could very well have a different explanation.

Like what?

She is not going to respond, Brother. It seems all of the weed she smokes has already burned out the parts of the brain responsible for logical thinking. That's why she isn't responding to my last post either.

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Then why are these sinful behaviors so closely associated with the Goths?

None of those behaviours are associated with Goths. This is a stereotype/misconception based on ignorant kids thinking the word Goth sounds cool and not bothering to actually learn what it means. Or based on what some crazy people like the trench coat mafia have done and they are not Goth. People who are not actually Goth cannot represent the Goth scene and we do not deserve to be slandered or attacked based on what people who are not a part of our community have done. The only thing all Goths have in common is liking Goth rock.

And I am not making anything up. I am giving you the actual definition.

1. a genre of rock music that first became popular in the 1980s and is characterized by morbid themes and melodies.
2. a person who is part of a subculture favoring this style of music and a dark and morbid aesthetic:

often not capitalized a : rock music marked by dark and morbid lyrics b : a fan or performer of goth

And my username is Ladyofmallow. Not marshmallow. It's taken from the name of a Gothic novel by Dorothy Eden.

[Alvin Moss]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Goth has nothing to do with Satanism, self mutilation, drugs, Marilyn Manson, school shootings, homosexuality, etc.

Then why are these sinful behaviors so closely associated with the Goths?

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Goth has nothing to do with Satanism, self mutilation, drugs, Marilyn Manson, school shootings, homosexuality, etc.

Goths are fans of Goth Rock. People who enjoy listening to Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Angels of Liberty. People who like Goth music. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Basilissa]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

All of that is just assumptions based on what was found.

It's called scientific evidence. It's the same scientific method the law enforcement uses to identify dead bodies, figure out how they died, and persecute their murderers. Except, in this case, the murderers are long dead and therefore impossible to persecute and punish.

Almost all theories in every archaeological article has been contended by other historians and archaeologists.

This is a very interesting hypothesis, however you need evidence to support it if you want anyone to accept it. And I will be happy to review such evidence if (and that is a very big if) you are able to produce it somehow. Which you won't be able to do because it is a really ridiculous claim that is impossible to defend.

I simply pointed out that me not believing in your god is because I am Pagan

No you aren't.

As I pointed out before, in order to be a real Pagan you would have to bury some human bodies occasionally. Since you seem to draw your idea of "paganism" on your perception of Norse and Celtic traditions (which is quite ironic given that these two ethnic groups were not that friendly to each other), you need to start dropping bodies in bogs and such. Your gods need that to ensure that the spring comes after the winter, that the sun rises in the morning, etc, etc. Ah, and have I mentioned, that when the leader of your group dies, you are supposed to kill and bury with him a large group pf attendants (concubines, warriors, servants)?

These are quite ridiculous and extremely cruel beliefs when you take a serious look at them, by actually reading up on existing and undisputable archaeological evidence. I fully agree with you that historical accounts are often skewed, and that goes for both the outsiders' accounts, which tend to paint everything in darker colors, and insiders' account, which tend to present everything in brighter colors. Living people (the ones who leave written accounts) lie. Dead people (the ones that tell their stories through their bodies and their contexts) do not lie.

In conclusion, read up.

Otherwise, you will never be a pagan but you will remain a pathetic New Ageish wannabe.

[Alvin Moss]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

They could very well have a different explanation.

Like what?

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Are you saying that the charred human bones found at these sites have a different explanation? What sort of sacrifices do you burn at your heathen Devil worshipping ceremonies? And why exactly are you here anyway?

They could very well have a different explanation.

Pagans may prick their finger, or provide the gods or goddesses with food, wine, things from nature, coins, things of sentimental value, gifts that represent things sacred to the god or goddess, etc.,

But again this has nothing to do with Goth. I've already explained why I am here. Multiple times. I am here because I am a Goth and do not appreciate people slandering the Goth scene and spreading false information that puts us in real physical danger so I corrected the false information and misconceptions listed here.