[JennyD]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

The silence from Mother Martian and Barrking Madd is deafening.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Here's what we believe: […] Those in heaven want us to share in their joy, so they pray for us to God that He may lead us along the right path there.

(i) Can you also explain why a mortal soul in Heaven praying to God is a proper thing to do. It seems to me that if you have reached heaven, you have done so because you have been obedient to God. Once in heaven, how likely is it that you would then start questioning His judgment on what is, and what is not, good for those left behind on earth?

(ii)Do you sincerely believe that God might NOT lead us along the right path?

I rather think that this is what Ecclesiastes is saying and I see nothing to indicate that God (as Jesus) said anything different.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Praying will not help the departed move from Hell to Heaven, since they are already in Heaven. This is clear from Acts 16:31:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Where in this do you get that the dead are "already in Heaven"?

Revelation 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

...

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If the dead are presently in Heaven or Hell, then judgment has already been passed. Do you believe that God plans to take them out of Heaven or Hell, resurrect their bodies, stuff them back in, and then toss them back into Heaven or Hell?

Or do you believe that God might make errors in the first pass, and has Judgment Day to correct those errors?

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Moreover, consider Jesus's words in John 15:7: If you are saved, and you ask for a deceased person also to be saved, then that person will be saved. Through the prayer of a single saved person, the entire world could be saved.

I just prayed to Jesus, and, since I abide in Him, He's going to make a special exception and damn you to Hell. Have fun down there by yourself.

Starrvedforknowledge, you've spouted a lot of unbiblical idiocy, but this really takes the cake. God did not waste an entire Bible for the sake of your misinterpretation of two verses taken out of context. Surely you remember the beginning of the Lord's Prayer:

Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:8-10

If you abide in God, then you cannot say a prayer that asks for anything that God does not want to give to you. So, by definition, you can't undo God's will by praying for something that violates God's laws. Pulling sinners aout of Hell would fall into that category. If God didn't want them in Hell, he wouldn't have sent them there in the first place.

And don't get me started on how your house does not mean the entire human race.

[StarrKingGrad]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

If that were true, then Jesus would have saved everybody, dead or future, by making a single prayer. As far as I know, he didn't do that.

How could it be false?

Welcome to the wonderful world of Universalism, Nobar.

[Nobar King]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Moreover, consider Jesus's words in John 15:7: If you are saved, and you ask for a deceased person also to be saved, then that person will be saved. Through the prayer of a single saved person, the entire world could be saved.

At least, that's what the Bible says. If you "True Christians" disagree, I'd like to see some Scripture that explains why John 15:7 doesn't apply.

If that were true, then Jesus would have saved everybody, dead or future, by making a single prayer. As far as I know, he didn't do that.

[StarrKingGrad]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

[B]And thus does The Lord make clear that to attempt to contact the departed is an abomination and to pray to the departed is of no value either to them, who have been judged justly by The Almighty, nor to the living.

The question posed was not whether it helps to pray to the dead, but rather whether it helps to pray for the dead.

Praying will not help the departed move from Hell to Heaven, since they are already in Heaven. This is clear from Acts 16:31:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

If you are saved, then everyone in your family is saved, so anyone who has at least one believer in the family will be saved. And we are all related to Paul of Tarsus, through Noah, and Paul of Tarsus was, the Bible tells us, certainly saved.

Moreover, consider Jesus's words in John 15:7:

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

If you are saved, and you ask for a deceased person also to be saved, then that person will be saved. Through the prayer of a single saved person, the entire world could be saved.

At least, that's what the Bible says. If you "True Christians" disagree, I'd like to see some Scripture that explains why John 15:7 doesn't apply.

[Billybob Sunday]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Here's what we believe:

1. God originally planned for all of man to go to heaven when they were finished with their time on earth. However, the gates of heaven were closed because of the original sin of Adam & Eve.
2. Hell was made to be the home of the fallen angels after they rebelled against God. (Since they obviously didn't want to serve Him, He made the one place they could be happy at).
3. From the time of the original sin to the time of Jesus' passion, death, and resurrection, all the dead went to one place-commonly described by the Hebrews as Sheol.
4. Between His death and resurrection, he went to Sheol to put them in their proper places. The Lord's favored (among them Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, Joash, Josiah, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Judas Maccabeus, and others) went to heaven (Jesus had reopened the gates there through his death), and those who didn't keep the Lord's teachings went to hell.
5. Jesus has made sure that we're going to heaven if we believe in Him and do His will here on earth. Those in heaven want us to share in their joy, so they pray for us to God that He may lead us along the right path there.

You cathylicks are just making it up as you go along, aren't you? Kind of like how buggering little boys is OK with all of you as well. Half of you are screwing the kiddos while the other half covers it up and transfers its pedos to other parishes where they can bugger new victims. A sick little shell game from Satan's favorite church.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Here's what we believe:

1. God originally planned for all of man to go to heaven when they were finished with their time on earth. However, the gates of heaven were closed because of the original sin of Adam & Eve.
2. Hell was made to be the home of the fallen angels after they rebelled against God. (Since they obviously didn't want to serve Him, He made the one place they could be happy at).

Wait, He imprisoned them in a lake of fire for them to be HAPPY?

3. From the time of the original sin to the time of Jesus' passion, death, and resurrection, all the dead went to one place-commonly described by the Hebrews as Sheol.

This translates as HELL, Papist.

4. Between His death and resurrection, he went to Sheol to put them in their proper places. The Lord's favored (among them Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, Joash, Josiah, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Judas Maccabeus, and others) went to heaven (Jesus had reopened the gates there through his death), and those who didn't keep the Lord's teachings went to hell.

Could you show us the Scriptural support for this?

Thanks.

5. Jesus has made sure that we're going to heaven if we believe in Him and do His will here on earth. Those in heaven want us to share in their joy, so they pray for us to God that He may lead us along the right path there.

Then why do you disobey so many of His commands in favor of your traditions? Why do you teach people lies? Do you WANT them to go to Hell with your Popes?

Is not His Will all of the Law, as He has said?

[Father Thomas Martin]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

So, Mary Martin, are you saying that God only created Hell AFTER He came to Earth as Jesus?

Did He decide, "Well, this whole 'blessing the good' thing isn't working too well since that Job incident . . . Guess I kinda blew My credibility there. I know, I'll kick it up a notch. I'll tell them that they can either believe in Me and follow My Laws, and join Me in Heaven, or they can do anything else -- other religions, no religion, break one single commandment -- and spend eternity being burned alive"?

Is THAT what you Catheterics believe?

Here's what we believe:

1. God originally planned for all of man to go to heaven when they were finished with their time on earth. However, the gates of heaven were closed because of the original sin of Adam & Eve.
2. Hell was made to be the home of the fallen angels after they rebelled against God. (Since they obviously didn't want to serve Him, He made the one place they could be happy at).
3. From the time of the original sin to the time of Jesus' passion, death, and resurrection, all the dead went to one place-commonly described by the Hebrews as Sheol.
4. Between His death and resurrection, he went to Sheol to put them in their proper places. The Lord's favored (among them Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, Joash, Josiah, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Judas Maccabeus, and others) went to heaven (Jesus had reopened the gates there through his death), and those who didn't keep the Lord's teachings went to hell.
5. Jesus has made sure that we're going to heaven if we believe in Him and do His will here on earth. Those in heaven want us to share in their joy, so they pray for us to God that He may lead us along the right path there.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Those are Old Testament quotes...That's BEFORE Jesus came to grant eternal life to all who believe in Him.

So what's your point exactly? Do you think it's now cool by Jesus if we make our sons and daughters pass through the fire, consult familiar spirits, or do those other things listed?

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Those are Old Testament quotes...That's BEFORE Jesus came to grant eternal life to all who believe in Him.

So, Mary Martin, are you saying that God only created Hell AFTER He came to Earth as Jesus?

Did He decide, "Well, this whole 'blessing the good' thing isn't working too well since that Job incident . . . Guess I kinda blew My credibility there. I know, I'll kick it up a notch. I'll tell them that they can either believe in Me and follow My Laws, and join Me in Heaven, or they can do anything else -- other religions, no religion, break one single commandment -- and spend eternity being burned alive"?

Is THAT what you Catheterics believe?

[Ebenezer Wright]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Those are Old Testament quotes...That's BEFORE Jesus came to grant eternal life to all who believe in Him.

Oh here we go again. Why call it the Bible if all you read and follow is the NT. You should just call it back-half Bible if your only going to follow and adhere to the back half.

[Father Thomas Martin]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

De:18:9: When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
De:18:10: There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
De:18:11: Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
De:18:12: For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Ec: 9:5-6For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.


And thus does The Lord make clear that to attempt to contact the departed is an abomination and to pray to the departed is of no value either to them, who have been judged justly by The Almighty, nor to the living.

If you wish to do the world a service, please copy these verses to

Mr Ratzinger
C/o The apostate church of the antichrist
Vatican.

Those are Old Testament quotes...That's BEFORE Jesus came to grant eternal life to all who believe in Him.

[Billybob Sunday]

Re: Why do people pray for the dead?

Tread carefully, my friend, for that road leads ultimately to Mormonism, and therefore to Hell.

The Chinks do it, too. And we all know where those yellow bastards end up.