[Epithanatios]

Re: Honest Questions

Jesus is God.

He commanded others to keep the Sabbath holy to Him.

That doesn't mean He had to do the same.

And his disciples?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Honest Questions

Luke 6 IS an example of the Pharisees making up their own rules. All the Old Testament says is to not work on Sabbath. The Disciples just picked up some corn from a field to eat. This isn't really eating, but the Pharisees extended rules of how to keep the Sabbath, which is not from God, included not being allowed to pluck crops. Jesus was just letting them know that they were wrong on this point.

You want more proof that they added their own rules? Look, do even the tinsiest about of research on what the Pharisee party was and you'll find out that they were a sect that had a very long list of extra-Biblical commands they had to keep. Even the Bible says so:

Mark 7: 5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Oh, and you clearly did not agree with my first point, because you said the only problem Jesus had with the Pharisees was that they wanted everyone to follow the commands of God fully, not that they were hypocrites.

[Capt. Aaron Portway]

Re: Honest Questions

hmmmm....i`m not aware of breaking any rules....could you list those that I have broken so I can better follow them?

No it has not proven that I am wrong all that Mr. Ezekiel Bathfire did was basically say that he wasn`t interested in understanding the Bible.....prove me wrong and I will believe you. Lemme ask you something....when you were in school did you just take the answer key and find all the answers for your tests or did you understand why 2+2 is 4 and not 5?

Have you read this? Before you start with the attitude you'd better know what your rights are here. In a nutshell, the rules are "Do what we say."

Keep being lippy, and it's hasta la c-ya pal!

[BelovedGift]

Re: Honest Questions

Ehm, back to my questions.........

No, I wasn't trying to start a debate, nor am I an Atheist. I was honestly asking because I had searched the forums and hadn't found any scriptures to relate to what you believe. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but my questions are honest and sincere. Also, I'm not here to tell you guys you're right or wrong, nor argue.

Now, I do agree with women being subject to their husbands, but I'm not sure about beating them. I know in the Church of Corinth that the women disrupted services, plus there were many other things going on in that church that were wrong. I also don't believe the majority of women are "vile whores". God created woman to be man's "helper", and yeah, Eve sinned and caused Adam to sin, although Adam sinned himself by accepting the fruit from her, instead of refusing it.

About Jesus now, yeah, He is God manifest in the flesh. He was also a Jew because He was born of Mary who was also a Jew. If Jesus had not been crucified, then we could have never been saved. Jesus went throughout the lands where the Jews lived and healed "all" in the cities. He also was called "King of the Jews". In Luke 23:34, Jesus says that they know not what they are doing. God hardened their hearts so that His blood could be shed for us.

Yes, I believe that the Bible was written by true christians, but the first christians were Jews. Moses, Abraham, David, Mary, Peter, Jesus... All Jews. The Old Testament was written by Jews moved by the Spirit of God. And true christians, as the Bible says, all should be meek, peaceful, forgiving, loving, faithful, ect.

Well I gotta' get to work. God bless.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Honest Questions

I think you are misinterperting the word. I do not "beat" my wife. I do discipline her however. Some consider any physical contact a "beating". Others, brutal strikes in fits a of rage.

Job 36:10 (King James Version)

He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.

[Epithanatios]

Re: Honest Questions

I think you are misinterperting the word. I do not "beat" my wife. I do discipline her however. Some consider any physical contact a "beating". Others, brutal strikes in fits a of rage.

Job 36:10 (King James Version)

He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.

So when you sin how are you disciplined?

[James Hutchins]

Re: Honest Questions

Through shame and atonement.

[BelovedGift]

Re: Honest Questions

See, I totally agree with that, Heathen_Basher. But a Jew can turn to Jesus and live according to His teachings. And those who died before the New Covenant, that lived according to God's Word and were Jews will be saved as well. I guess I'm like a peace keeper. I have been told I have been too nice to people who were rude and evil in the sight of God. But the same happened to Jesus, and we're told to be just like Him. I don't agree with arguing over someone's beliefs, even if I don't agree with them. I'm not one to judge others. I believe that's God's place.

James Hutchins, well I got the interpretation from some of the comments here that this church believes in beating their wives. Yeah, if I had a wife who, let's say commits adultery, I would probably slap her. I'd feel bad later, but that's just me... But I wouldn't choose someone to be my wife that would go around doing those kind of things. I'd make sure she's the right one before I would marry her. I just recently ended my relationship with my ex-girlfriend because she was not living up to God's Word. I'm glad I caught it ahead of time. But just from what I've read here, I honestly thought you all believed in "beating" your wives.

Now I've also seen you guys turn away a person who caught AIDs through a blood transfusion. I could understand if they got it from sex or drug use, but a blood transfusion?? Now, if it was of God or not, I don't believe that's our place to judge. He may have deserved it or he may not of. As a church, God's people, we are to always forgive other's for their sins just as Christ forgave us of ours. Well, that's what I believe. The second of the 10 commandments states to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Jesus also taught that we are to love those who hate us, and bless those who curse us.

I do agree with portions of your doctrine, but it seemed to me that you guys took a lot to the extreme. But that's how I interpreted it and I think many other people have as well. That's why I wanted to know this stuff, that I would know the truth of this situation because what I had heard, and the few things I've read, have left me questioning these things. Beating someone, even your wife, is against the law as far as I know. But that's not what the Bible meant when the wive's are to be under their husbands authority. I hope I was clear in writing that. God bless.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Honest Questions

We've answered all of your other questions in other threads, but in regards to the AIDS part. The question isn't just about AIDS. It's the fact that the person got a disease at all. EVERY disease on Earth is a righteous punishment from the Lord Jesus. We would gladly accept that person, but first they have to admit that they deserved what they got, or else they are basically saying that God is unjust towards them.

[UnSavedSinceIwas12]

Re: Honest Questions

Hi, my name is Jonathan, and I have some questions, hopefully someone can help me understand. I'm not here to bash you guys, or speak anything against you, I just want to understand how you guys see these things.

Now, I do believe Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit (John 1:14, 1Timothy 3:16). I also believe many other things you believe.


I did notice you guys believe in beating your wives.. Can you tell me where in the scriptures it says that is an okay thing to do? I don't believe in that, and here are my scriptures to support my belief. Again, I am not attempting to bash you, as many other's have already. Just trying to understand.

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Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Pro 18:22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Col 3:20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

---------------

Hopefully I explained my thoughts well. There are other topics I don't agree within your doctrine, but I am not here to bash you, but to only understand why you believe those things, and where in the Bible it supports them.

One last one before I have to go... Your views on the Jews. Can you please explain why you believe they are bad people? I know Jesus Himself was a Jew, and the majority of the Bible was written by them.

Well, I gotta' get into my prayer closet before church. I hope I can get some clear answers, and hopefully I have not offended anyone. I'm just seeking knowledge of your beliefs without any bashing, arguing, or bantering.

Thanks and God bless.

Thank you for posting these scriptures although I'm sure one of these so called "True Christians" will disagree and call you a False Christian.

[UnSavedSinceIwas12]

Re: Honest Questions

Jesus is God.

He commanded others to keep the Sabbath holy to Him.

That doesn't mean He had to do the same.

So, Let me get this straight? Christ said "Do as I say, Not as I do?" I think not. At least that's not the way MY KJV1611 reads. I do believe you have a WARPED sense of the Bible. I pray for you without ceasing.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Honest Questions

No, God does NOT have to live up to our standard of judgment. For example, we are supposed to forgive everyone. BUT, God is allowed the damn souls for all eternity and never have any mercy on them.

Romans 9: 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

[BelovedGift]

Re: Honest Questions

We've answered all of your other questions in other threads, but in regards to the AIDS part. The question isn't just about AIDS. It's the fact that the person got a disease at all. EVERY disease on Earth is a righteous punishment from the Lord Jesus. We would gladly accept that person, but first they have to admit that they deserved what they got, or else they are basically saying that God is unjust towards them.

See, that's where I begin to differ. I believe that the rain falls on the just and the unjust (Mat 5:45). If I caught the flu, for example, it isn't always because of a sin I commit. Although, I do believe sin is a curse and that we all commit sins daily, whether we try to or not, whether we know we caused it or not. Because sin came into the world by Adam and Eve, we are all cursed. But God came in the form of man, and died on the cross to forgive all sins of those who turn towards Him. The lady with the issue of blood, He healed her. Mary Magdalene, He forgave her. That's what Jesus came to do...

Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Even the blind man committed no sin, nor anyone in his family...

Joh 9:2-3 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.


So, now I have my answers, I see you people take some scriptures to the extreme. Like I said, and now I'm done here. I pray the Love of God show you the full truth. Because I know you have some truth, I don't see the Love of God in you. Jesus taught to forgive all of every sin, and to not judge... You've done the complete opposite. Don't worry about me, I won't return here. Like the pharisee's you judge other's for diseases they have, you take the laws to the extreme and don't show love and forgiveness, you're hearts too are hardened. To those who have beaten their wives, or longed to do so unto them after you're married, I pray you repent. God didn't call us to cast judgement, but to forgive and love one another as you love yourselves. Your wives are your helpers, not your slaves. The Jews did what God wanted them to do. They crucified Jesus because it was supposed to be so. Learn to love, for without the love of God, you're not His.

Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God speed, and God bless. I hope the Lord will convict hearts here to learn to love their wives, even in the worst of times... To show compassion for the sick... and to forgive other's of their sins.

Jesus loves you whether you like it or not.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Honest Questions

Your practicing sloppy agape: http://www.epworthpulpit.com/urban-m...g-us-long-haul

[Emmett]

Re: Honest Questions

Now that's just a loaded question! I was captain of the debate team when I was majoring in theology, so I know all about the tricks you atheists use you to make us Christians look bad. We don't beat our wives; we discipline them. There's a world of difference.

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Yes. One flesh. And as Paul explains later, the Man is the Head and the Woman is the Body. Is not the head in control of the body?



Yes. Enjoy your wife. That's what she's here for, to fulfill man's happiness. Again, a reference that women should be servants to a man's needs.



Yes, because as the Bible also illustrates, most women are vile whores. So finding a good wife is indeed quite rare, even rarer than rubies, the Bible tells us!



What's your point? God needed a human vessel so that Christ can be born in the flesh. Of course it's going to be a woman! Do you think he was going to impregnate Joseph???



Yes. Don't commit adultery and don't divorce. What does this have to do with women being equal to men like you claim the Bible supposedly does?

[/I]

Yes, one flesh. Again, as Paul later states the Man is the Head and the Wife is the Body. Clearly Jesus is saying women are men's property if they are one of the same flesh. After all, isn't your arms and legs your own property?



Every man in Landover Baptist Church follows this. We are all benevolent towards our wives. However, notice it is a two-way street. The wife is also required to be benevolent. What if she acts out of line or gets wayward? That's where loving discipline comes in.



We all love our wives. If we didn't love them, we would let them be naturally rebellious and damn their own souls towards Hell.



Similar to the above. Again notice the requirement of the wife to give reverence to her husband. As long as the wife doesn't misbehave, the marriage is fine.



Strange that you quote these Colossians verses, since it pretty much proves our point about women. Wives, SUBMIT YOURSELVES unto your husbands! Paul is clearly saying women are lower than us and we have a right to rule over them. There is nothing about feminism and gender equality in this. But, thanks for quoting it nonetheless so that we can prove our point!



Yes, be in subject to your husbands.

Now, from the Bible verses you quoted, you can plainly observe that a recurring theme is that the Man is the master over the Woman, and there is no such thing as equality. It is true you cannot discipline your equal, but since women are not our equals (as the Bible illustrates), we are free to discipline them until they get back on the right path.

I am not ashamed to admit, in fact, I am rather proud, I do give my young wife a good spanking on the bare buttocks with a cat o' nine tails every now and then. I never, ever hit her in the face or punch her in the stomach or anything. I am not a sadistic monster. I am a loving, caring husband who looks after her, just as the Bible commands me.

Glad to have answered your honest questions! Now you know why we are right, and you are wrong.

You call your idea of discipline and abuse different from each other? I would never lay a hand on my wife in a violent way. She listens to me. I listen to her. WE LOVE EACH OTHER!!! That is why you marry someone. Because you love them and want to start a family with them. NOT because you want someone to have sex with and be your servant. You do not teach them how to behave. You learn from each other!!! And you love each other.