[GodIsAlmighty]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

So by your interpretation, if I'm reading you correctly, Jesus' life, the way He treated those he encountered, His behaviour and His ministry are not to be emulated? The Gospels are just a bunch of nice stories, but really have no pertinence as to how Christians today should live their lives? That to me, sounds like a more serious sin than, God forbid, I strive to live the way Christ Himself lived.

Have fun with your hate. I'll hug you if I see you in heaven someday. You seem like someone in desperate need of a hug.

Our "interpretation" of the bible is the bible itself! Word for word! In Mathew 10:34 Jesus said "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." There ain't no other way to "interpret" that! He didn't want peace on earth, he wanted the Christians to win!

[God's Flaming Sword]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

1. In defending my faith and attempting to have a rational discussion I was neither being pretentious nor attempting to speak for Christ. I merely quoted scripture and posed a reasonable inquiry into your interpretation of the verses. You, however, do appear to wish to speak for Christ himself, overlooking blatant contradictions with your beliefs and the scriptures to suit your perverted (and dare I say the word, sexist) perspective.

..and there is part of your problem...you interpret and cherry pick the parts of the bible that you like and want to follow - We choose to follow the bible exactly as it is written even if that means the hard parts like disciplining our loved ones. It pains us to do so but God commands it of us.

2. I absolutely refuse to sugar coat the truth in regards to your idea of 'discipline'. The last time I checked, punching, cutting and slapping a person (all things mentioned in this thread as forms of 'discipline') were still considered to be acts of violence. These violent assaults are traumatic in nature as well, classifying them as abusive. You can play with semantics until you're blue in the face, but violence is violence. I'm just calling it like it is. Just in case this does not satisfy you or should you wish to continue to defy the English language with your own definitions and continue to protest my use of these words, I will provide you will the definitions of these terms:

Oxford Dictionary:
Violence: 1 behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

Abuse: Treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly:

American is used on this website so Webster's should be your reference of choice....actually even that is wrong. The KJV should be your only book of reference and it quite clearly advocates several time to make sure even the dense get the point in Proverbs:


Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

God is quite clear that he wants True Christians to use force when it is felt to be needed.

3. As to disciplining children, my stance is entirely the same. Violence is never the answer. Ever. Beating children is abusive, extremely harmful and against Biblical principles. The 'rod' as mentioned in your response should not be seen as literal (though you will no doubt object to that) and should instead be properly understood as the *metaphorical* rod of discipline. There are more effective and Biblical ways of disciplining a child without resorting to violence. Women, on the other hand, should not be seen as needing 'discipline' from anyone. They are grown adults capable of rational, intelligent thought and should be treated as equal and as worthy of respect as anyone else. The idea that a man needs to 'discipline' his wife is ridiculous, demeaning and frankly, sad and disgusting. It is simply the product of weak men bullying the most vulnerable in society, there's nothing Biblical about it.

Yappity Yappity - same tree-hugging hippy nonsense. See tha above again.

[short n sweet]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

Where does it say that in the Holy Bible? It sounds like your personal interpretation, which is a serious sin.

So by your interpretation, if I'm reading you correctly, Jesus' life, the way He treated those he encountered, His behaviour and His ministry are not to be emulated? The Gospels are just a bunch of nice stories, but really have no pertinence as to how Christians today should live their lives? That to me, sounds like a more serious sin than, God forbid, I strive to live the way Christ Himself lived.

Have fun with your hate. I'll hug you if I see you in heaven someday. You seem like someone in desperate need of a hug.

[short n sweet]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

And without being as pretentious as you in trying to speak on behalf of Jesus Christ, we know that He was never married and subsequently had no need to rule over or discipline women. Christian mortal men are charged, by God, with this responsibility.

Kindly dispense with the callous associations of righteous discipline with "violence" and "abuse".

I'm afraid to ask where you stand on Godly punishment for wicked children. If your son told a lie, would you correct him with the rod as we are commanded?

Proverbs 13:24 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

1. In defending my faith and attempting to have a rational discussion I was neither being pretentious nor attempting to speak for Christ. I merely quoted scripture and posed a reasonable inquiry into your interpretation of the verses. You, however, do appear to wish to speak for Christ himself, overlooking blatant contradictions with your beliefs and the scriptures to suit your perverted (and dare I say the word, sexist) perspective.

2. I absolutely refuse to sugar coat the truth in regards to your idea of 'discipline'. The last time I checked, punching, cutting and slapping a person (all things mentioned in this thread as forms of 'discipline') were still considered to be acts of violence. These violent assaults are traumatic in nature as well, classifying them as abusive. You can play with semantics until you're blue in the face, but violence is violence. I'm just calling it like it is. Just in case this does not satisfy you or should you wish to continue to defy the English language with your own definitions and continue to protest my use of these words, I will provide you will the definitions of these terms:

Oxford Dictionary:
Violence: 1 behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

Abuse: Treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly:

3. As to disciplining children, my stance is entirely the same. Violence is never the answer. Ever. Beating children is abusive, extremely harmful and against Biblical principles. The 'rod' as mentioned in your response should not be seen as literal (though you will no doubt object to that) and should instead be properly understood as the *metaphorical* rod of discipline. There are more effective and Biblical ways of disciplining a child without resorting to violence. Women, on the other hand, should not be seen as needing 'discipline' from anyone. They are grown adults capable of rational, intelligent thought and should be treated as equal and as worthy of respect as anyone else. The idea that a man needs to 'discipline' his wife is ridiculous, demeaning and frankly, sad and disgusting. It is simply the product of weak men bullying the most vulnerable in society, there's nothing Biblical about it.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

I also see that Jesus was a living example of how we are to treat fellow human beings.

Where does it say that in the Holy Bible? It sounds like your personal interpretation, which is a serious sin.

2 Peter 1:20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Jesus had some choice words in the Holy Bible for unrepentant scum such as yourself. If you were at all familiar with the Bible, you wouldn't have such a ridiculous picture of our Lord.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.--Luke 14:26

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.--Luke 19:27

[Levi Jones]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

And yet you spare yourself the physical beatings. In keeping with your, albeit flawed and depraved, logic, here's a suggestion, how about you turn the belt on yourself next time first and see if your emotional pain really does equate her physical (and emotional) trauma.

Jesus was all about whipping of a man's property for disobedience. In His parable about watchfulness, he casually mentions the practice.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

Yes. I see the difference. I see that what happened was the result of humankind falling into sin. I see that pain in childbirth is a biological reality in the fallen world that we live in, and is not done at the hand of her husband and is therefore not the same as subjecting a wife to physical and emotional abuse.

I also see that Jesus was a living example of how we are to treat fellow human beings. Jesus saved a woman from stoning when she was caught in adultery, an offence, as you have no doubt pointed out elsewhere, that was punishable by death as stipulated in the Old Testament. Going against this law, then, Jesus saved her, illustrating His love and mercy and setting the example that Christians should follow. He showed mercy and love instead of violence, and He is the Son of God. How much more love and mercy, that does not involve violence, should you, as a fallen and sinful human being, show in return? Should you not be using Jesus' example as the template for your life, as He is the Son of God, the author of the faith you so vehemently defend, the Saviour of your soul?

Not once does the Bible give an account of Jesus using physical violence against a woman. If anything, it shows His incredible love, kindness, gentleness and mercy towards women. Not once does the Bible dictate that men should abuse their wives. Submission for wives, as prescribed by Paul, does not equate domination. Love does not equal violence. In fact, violence is the antithesis of love and therefore, attempting to justify physical abuse in the name of 'loving your wife' in a Biblical way is entirely invalid.

Can you be any more obtuse?

Genesis 3:16-17 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

God was very clear and concise in explaining the new role for the lesser sex. When "rules" are broken or violated, there are consequences. How else can order be maintained in society or the Christian home?

And without being as pretentious as you in trying to speak on behalf of Jesus Christ, we know that He was never married and subsequently had no need to rule over or discipline women. Christian mortal men are charged, by God, with this responsibility.

Kindly dispense with the callous associations of righteous discipline with "violence" and "abuse".

I'm afraid to ask where you stand on Godly punishment for wicked children. If your son told a lie, would you correct him with the rod as we are commanded?

Proverbs 13:24 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

Or would your bleeding heart refrain, and watch his sins grow to the point that he is violently sodomizing his sister before you take any action at all?

I will pray for you.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

While I'm at it, I would also like to point out that Jesus himself spared women from physical punishment and pain. To just point out one story among many I will quote this:

Just wanted to point out that you completely missed the point of this story. Jesus saving the woman from being stoned wasn't out of sparing her from physical punishment and pain. That wasn't his goal. He didn't see her and go "Oh, I don't want her to get hurt!"

No, the answer to the moral of the story lies in the phrase "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". The reason he saved the woman, was not for her own benefit, but instead the Pharisees (who were sinners) were trying to judge and punish her when they had no spiritual authority to do so.

I should point out as True Christians™ we are without sin (1 John 1:7, Acts 22:16, Romans 6:6-8, 1 John 3:6-9). Therefore, we have every right to throw stones. Remember: Jesus never said "Nobody throw stones!" He said "Only unsaved trash cannot throw stones!". Big difference.

[short n sweet]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

Really?

Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

Genesis 3:16-17 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"

The woman sinned and then introduced her husband to the same sin (as is usually the case). What did God do?

He cursed Eve and every woman to come with intense physical pain in childbirth.

And the man? God made the ground difficult to farm.

Do you see the difference in punishment?

Yes. I see the difference. I see that what happened was the result of humankind falling into sin. I see that pain in childbirth is a biological reality in the fallen world that we live in, and is not done at the hand of her husband and is therefore not the same as subjecting a wife to physical and emotional abuse.

I also see that Jesus was a living example of how we are to treat fellow human beings. Jesus saved a woman from stoning when she was caught in adultery, an offence, as you have no doubt pointed out elsewhere, that was punishable by death as stipulated in the Old Testament. Going against this law, then, Jesus saved her, illustrating His love and mercy and setting the example that Christians should follow. He showed mercy and love instead of violence, and He is the Son of God. How much more love and mercy, that does not involve violence, should you, as a fallen and sinful human being, show in return? Should you not be using Jesus' example as the template for your life, as He is the Son of God, the author of the faith you so vehemently defend, the Saviour of your soul?

Not once does the Bible give an account of Jesus using physical violence against a woman. If anything, it shows His incredible love, kindness, gentleness and mercy towards women. Not once does the Bible dictate that men should abuse their wives. Submission for wives, as prescribed by Paul, does not equate domination. Love does not equal violence. In fact, violence is the antithesis of love and therefore, attempting to justify physical abuse in the name of 'loving your wife' in a Biblical way is entirely invalid.

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

While I'm at it, I would also like to point out that Jesus himself spared women from physical punishment and pain. To just point out one story among many I will quote this:

Really?

Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

Genesis 3:16-17 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"

The woman sinned and then introduced her husband to the same sin (as is usually the case). What did God do?

He cursed Eve and every woman to come with intense physical pain in childbirth.

And the man? God made the ground difficult to farm.

Do you see the difference in punishment?

In Christ

[James Dewitt]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

How, exactly, do you 'true Christians', who attempt to Biblically justify physical violence against half of the human race, explain this verse?

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Ephesians 5:24-31 KJV

Unless you regularly carry out these acts of violence you are perpetrating upon your own bodies, it would seem to me that you are in a grave contradiction of Scripture.

I never ever hit my ex-wife( May God take pity on her for being a Slut), I wonder if that might have been the problem. I never hit her when she came home drunk every day. I never hit her when I found naked pictures of her with other slutty females.
May be when I found her having sex with two nigras I should have punched her. I guess I will never know. I wonder if she will ever turn up?

[short n sweet]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

Look, it hurts me more than it does her. I AM beating myself up emotionally when I have no choice but to remove my belt. When the simpleton sins against me or the household, it's every bit as painful to me as a heel-palm to the nose. I shed tears too.

And yet you spare yourself the physical beatings. In keeping with your, albeit flawed and depraved, logic, here's a suggestion, how about you turn the belt on yourself next time first and see if your emotional pain really does equate her physical (and emotional) trauma. Or, better yet, place the belt in her hand and have her try it out on you. I'm sure a woman is perfectly capable of figuring out which end to hit you with. It might even be a nice change from the clearly horrendous emotional turmoil you contend with daily.

While I'm at it, I would also like to point out that Jesus himself spared women from physical punishment and pain. To just point out one story among many I will quote this:

3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

John 7:53-8:11 KJV

[James Hutchins]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

But you are not loving them as you love your own bodies, unless you are physically beating yourselves as well, therefore you are not doing as the scripture tells you to do.

If I did not love my wife, I would not be firmly yet lovingly letting her know when she made a mistake.
Do you think I should ignore my wife? You think if she is ironing, hears the phone ringing, I should let her hold the hot iron to her ear? What kind of sicko are you?

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

But you are not loving them as you love your own bodies, unless you are physically beating yourselves as well, therefore you are not doing as the scripture tells you to do.

Look, it hurts me more than it does her. I AM beating myself up emotionally when I have no choice but to remove my belt. When the simpleton sins against me or the household, it's every bit as painful to me as a heel-palm to the nose. I shed tears too.

In Christ

[short n sweet]

Re: Avoiding Jail For Domestic "Violence"

Praise Jesus! This is precisely why we discipline our wives when they stray from their intended roles. Because we love and cherish them.

To not discipline would be hatred, as the sins of the woman compound and earn her eternal hellfire and torment.

In Jesus

But you are not loving them as you love your own bodies, unless you are physically beating yourselves as well, therefore you are not doing as the scripture tells you to do.