[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

How is this thread still going?

"Is it possible to be both 'gay' and a Christian?" No!

There. Done. How it's gone on for nine pages is beyond me.

[M.D. (Quarantined)]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

Can't you read. Go and look at the long post about the research done on the genetic basis of Homerism. It isn't, as a matter of fact, proven.

Quite apart from that, let's try to nail down your deterministic twaddle. Do you believe that any of us have any choice or not? Do we have any free will at all?
[color=red]In some cases yes, in some no. Example: You want to be a genious scientist, but you have Down Syndrome. It's no
Is there such a thing as "evil" in your books, or is everyone who is called "criminal" just ill (suffering a hormonal or genetic imbalance)?

Do you believe in human culpability at all -- should people ever be held responsible for their actions, or should we simply try to "cure" rapists, murderers and other criminals. If raping is in a rapist's genes or hormones would you condemn or want to punish someone who raped your 9 year-old-daughter (if you had one) or would you argue that what they did was "natural" (what is more natural than hormones or DNA) and encourage them?

And if you do draw a line somewhere, where do you draw it, and how do you determine that it should be there?

For one, it isn't medically proven but we're almost completely sure. We haven't studied homosexuality enough to prove it 100%. In the medical world, we don't really care that much about it. Secondly, I'm a medical doctor, not a philosopher or a psychologist. Most rapists, murderers, etc. are psychotic. They usually have been mentally disturbed somewhere down the line, were raised that way, or some other traumatic event. (Daddy hits mommy, raped as a child, abused scenarios...) They have something wrong with their mind, not their brain. Sometimes it's their brain (bipolar, schizo, drugs, etc.) but usually not. I do believe people who do wrong should be punished justly. If they know it's wrong: prison. If they can't decipher wrong from right/reality from fantasy: insane asylum. Either one is punishment according to most people.

No, there is no such thing as evil in my book. There is civil and humane. The criminal should be punished, the insane (medical or psychological) should be either locked up and kept from harming others or themselves or put on medications if available and necessary. Therefore, the line is drawn to keep society safe. Even if it was written in their genes, you wouldn't let a psychotic criminal out in the world to hurt everyone they have a grudge against.

[M.D. (Quarantined)]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

DNA is a lie.
Traits are produced in an entirely different way:

And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink,
That they should conceive when they came to drink. And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.
Genesis 30:38-39



Where's yours?
I've yet to see you prove ANY of your claims!
Are you only here to perscute Christians, or are you here for a genuine debate?
If so, then give us your "proof" that you are right!

I have theough medical studies. Look it up, I'm sure you'll find. You could probably even find a microscopic picture, but probably just a drawinf of DNA. But if you're going to play the religious card, then no one wins. Because you're to blind to believe anything even if it's showed to you and explained to you in detail.

[M.D. (Quarantined)]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

Yes, she could. In Godless New Zealand 41% of women admit to lezbianic relations at some stage in their lives, and the proportion of "bi" men is much higher than in the Godly USA. But there is no difference in the hormones or DNA of these Godless filth. It's a matter of choice -- it's what happens when God is mocked and neglected, and women (who are essentially sinful) are allowed to play too great a role in affairs of state.

Do you think that the occupants of Sodom and Gomorrah had different hormones or DNA from other people? No, they were simply sinful and God smote them and destroyed their cities.

Was the DNA and hormones of people in ancient Rome different?

What about the British Public Schools where proficiency in buggery is part of the curriculum? Do the British upper-classes have... wait a moment, this is a difficult one... let's leave that one, but you see my point, I'm sure.

Have you ever heard of "situational Homerism"? Have you heard of the reputaion sailors have -- what do depraved and sinful sailors who are locked away together for months at a time without any sheep or blow-up dolls get up to? The ones that are debauched and dissolute start having unnatural relations with each other.

It's a matter of choice M.D. A matter of choice.

Homosexuality has become very open and accepted in todays society. This newfound acceptance has led to curiosity in the sexual matter. But the true homosexuals are simply not attracted to the opposite sex. Not only that, they have either an inadequate or excess amount of testosterone. Testosterone gives women a male aspect and low testosterone gives males a female aspect, simply put. That's why women on steroids grow beards, and males with low testosterone like to wear dresses and make up and such. That's one theory. A less complex one anyway.

[Enobarbus]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

Homosexuality has become very open and accepted in todays society. This newfound acceptance has led to curiosity in the sexual matter. But the true homosexuals are simply not attracted to the opposite sex. Not only that, they have either an inadequate or excess amount of testosterone. Testosterone gives women a male aspect and low testosterone gives males a female aspect, simply put. That's why women on steroids grow beards, and males with low testosterone like to wear dresses and make up and such. That's one theory. A less complex one anyway.

>>>Not only that, they have either an inadequate or excess amount of testosterone.<<<<

Where in the name of heaven did you get this from? Can you produce any evidence for it? Cite a paper or give us a Web link?

Some have suggested that there is a difference in homers brains, some have suggested a genetic link -- but an inadequate amount of testosterone?

You must be joking. Testosterone will cause changes but it won't alter sexual orientation. Many homer men are weight lifters and sportsmen; they don't have inadequate levels of testosterone.

There was a depraved sinner in the Australian Rugby League who was considered the toughest guy in a very tough league. He admitted being in love with a salesman. God will punish him, but he does not have inadequate levels of testosterone.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

I do believe people who do wrong should be punished justly. If they know it's wrong: prison. If they can't decipher wrong from right/reality from fantasy: insane asylum. Either one is punishment according to most people.

So you admit homers should be locked up in prison or an insane asylum? I'm glad you seem to be making some progress here.

But if you're going to play the religious card, then no one wins. Because you're to blind to believe anything even if it's showed to you and explained to you in detail.

Then why are you here? You don't see us going to hellboundseculiarhumanistsodomiteswitharagingpassi onforricharddawkins.org and telling everyone there "If you're going to play the scientific card, then no one wins. Because you're too blind to believe anything even if the relevant Bible verse is shown to you and explained to you in detail."

Homosexuality has become very open and accepted in todays society. This newfound acceptance has led to curiosity in the sexual matter. But the true homosexuals are simply not attracted to the opposite sex. Not only that, they have either an inadequate or excess amount of testosterone.

So you admit that it's socially and culturally determined, but it's still biologically determined? Right. I see.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

Not only that, they have either an inadequate or excess amount of testosterone. Testosterone gives women a male aspect and low testosterone gives males a female aspect, simply put. That's why women on steroids grow beards, and males with low testosterone like to wear dresses and make up and such. That's one theory. A less complex one anyway.

An idiotic one, anyway. Where DID you get this nonsense? REFERENCES, PLEASE.

If Homerism were the result of low/high testosterone levels, then a SHOT could fix them! Women (Homer or not) go on estrogen therapy all the time. Men who have damaged stones (cancer, etc.) go on testosterone all the time. Correcting a HORMONAL imbalance is easily accomplished. Any actual "medical doctor" would know that.

How do you explain all the male Homers on steroids, dimwit? They're pumped full of synthetic testosterone, and still buggering other men! Or even GETTING buggered!

Do you really think the only Homers are the prancing queens and biker bulldykes you see in your wet dreams and on TV? Why, ten percent of married men in the US reported same-sex sexual contact in 2006! Are they all a bunch of dress-wearing nellies, like the ones you "polish your gun" thinking about, with wives who just don't notice that their dresses are all stretched out?

How about that big burly Negro basketball star who came out of the closet to announce that he, too, has demons in his colon? Is he wearing a dress?

Not only are you not a medical doctor, you're not half as intelligent as you think you are. The theory that you are so woefully mutilating states that Homerism may be the result of HORMONAL FLUCTUATIONS IN THE WOMB. The MOTHER'S hormones, not the HOMER'S hormones.

We, of course, know the truth! Homerism, pure and simple, is caused by GOD. In the book of Romans, Paul explains that God makes idolators into Homers to punish them.

Romans 1:22-27

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error, which was meat.

I suggest you stop "playing doctor" with your roommates and making up "science" and start reading the Good Book!

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

I have theough medical studies. Look it up, I'm sure you'll find. You could probably even find a microscopic picture, but probably just a drawinf of DNA. But if you're going to play the religious card, then no one wins. Because you're to blind to believe anything even if it's showed to you and explained to you in detail.

A drawing?
I am to take a DRAWING (or a photoshopped "picture") as proof?
I can draw something too, but what does that prove?.. Do you silly secularists even accept drawings as proof nowadays?

And that you've studied it doesn't prove anything, or do you reckon that it has to be genuine just because you've studied it?

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

A drawing?
I am to take a DRAWING (or a photoshopped "picture") as proof?
I can draw something too, but what does that prove?.. Do you silly secularists even accept drawings as proof nowadays?

And that you've studied it doesn't prove anything, or do you reckon that it has to be genuine just because you've studied it?

I knew that seculiar scientists like to play God, but I didn't realise it'd gotten this bad - this fool seems to think that he can just say "let there be evidence for a biological basis for homerism" and there will be such evidence.

[bonzo2 (On Moderation)]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

Apparently, sarcasm is beyond you.

And you!!

[M.D. (Quarantined)]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

>>>Not only that, they have either an inadequate or excess amount of testosterone.<<<<

Where in the name of heaven did you get this from? Can you produce any evidence for it? Cite a paper or give us a Web link?

Some have suggested that there is a difference in homers brains, some have suggested a genetic link -- but an inadequate amount of testosterone?

You must be joking. Testosterone will cause changes but it won't alter sexual orientation. Many homer men are weight lifters and sportsmen; they don't have inadequate levels of testosterone.

There was a depraved sinner in the Australian Rugby League who was considered the toughest guy in a very tough league. He admitted being in love with a salesman. God will punish him, but he does not have inadequate levels of testosterone.

Yes! Testosterone is what gives men their sex drive! Women too, a matter of fact. Women actually secrete little amounts of testosterone especially during their menstrual cycle. That's why the side effects of certain birth control can stop the secretion of this testosterone, causing them to have little or no sex drive.

Also, testosterone is effected by the genetics in a person. The DNA is responsible for what amount of testosterone (and estrogen) a person makes. A lack or excess of these hormone levels can determine sexual characteristics.

By the way, here's your link. I took the first one I saw, hope you don't mind. http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neur...2/Bodian2.html

You genetics can also determine the shape of your figure. Ever heard of Klinefelter's syndrome or Turner's syndrome?

[M.D. (Quarantined)]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

So you admit homers should be locked up in prison or an insane asylum? I'm glad you seem to be making some progress here.
[color=red]The criminally insane should be locked up only if they hurt others or endanger themselves. And "damning themselves to hell" doesn't count...[color=red]

Then why are you here? You don't see us going to hellboundseculiarhumanistsodomiteswitharagingpassi onforricharddawkins.org and telling everyone there "If you're going to play the scientific card, then no one wins. Because you're too blind to believe anything even if the relevant Bible verse is shown to you and explained to you in detail."
You have a point. I'm just here to explain my version of the situation. Perhaps you'll come to find it true, perhaps not. It's your will, not mine.

So you admit that it's socially and culturally determined, but it's still biologically determined? Right. I see.

Confused you, did I? I'm not surprised... I meant it could be either. But for the true genetically gay, there's no hope unless there's a medical breakthrough or they miracuously learn to change their own DNA. Or maybe it's God's will...

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

Yes! Testosterone is what gives men their sex drive! Women too, a matter of fact. Women actually secrete little amounts of testosterone especially during their menstrual cycle. That's why the side effects of certain birth control can stop the secretion of this testosterone, causing them to have little or no sex drive.

Also, testosterone is effected by the genetics in a person. The DNA is responsible for what amount of testosterone (and estrogen) a person makes. A lack or excess of these hormone levels can determine sexual characteristics.

By the way, here's your link. I took the first one I saw, hope you don't mind. http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neur...2/Bodian2.html

You genetics can also determine the shape of your figure. Ever heard of Klinefelter's syndrome or Turner's syndrome?

Nobody said that testosterone or estrogen levels don't influence secondary sexual characteristics or libido.

However, they do not influence sexual orientation.

As I already informed you, the theory you are mutilating in your ignorance is that the HOMER'S MOTHER has a hormonal imbalance DURING PREGNANCY, which causes differences in BRAIN STRUCTURE in the fetus. In fact, that's what the PAPER YOU QUOTED says. Can you not read? "Pre-natal" means "before birth". Your reference's concluding paragraph:

It is crucial to consider that personality and behavior are more than simple chemical reactions. While prenatal over-androgenization or estrogenization could potentially be one of the many underlying causes of homosexuality, this has only been shown in certain cases, largely those in which chemical abnormalities have caused effeminate or masculinizing behavioral (and in some cases physical) traits. The studies discussed herein cannot account for the physiological characteristics of every member of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered community. It is also possible that the amounts of hormones studied are not abnormal, but fall somewhere in the spectrum of human sexuality.

You're an ignorant imbecile who can't even comprehend the "scientific" papers you quote. Kindly stop trying, you only make yourself a fool.

Further, and this is an ORDER,

Stop using GOD'S FAVORITE FORUM to promote your bigotry and intolerance under the guise of "science"!

Besides, we know from the Bible that God makes them Homers because their parents were idolators. Read Romans 1:22-27.

[M.D. (Quarantined)]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

An idiotic one, anyway. Where DID you get this nonsense? REFERENCES, PLEASE.

If Homerism were the result of low/high testosterone levels, then a SHOT could fix them! Women (Homer or not) go on estrogen therapy all the time. Men who have damaged stones (cancer, etc.) go on testosterone all the time. Correcting a HORMONAL imbalance is easily accomplished. Any actual "medical doctor" would know that.

How do you explain all the male Homers on steroids, dimwit? They're pumped full of synthetic testosterone, and still buggering other men! Or even GETTING buggered!

Do you really think the only Homers are the prancing queens and biker bulldykes you see in your wet dreams and on TV? Why, ten percent of married men in the US reported same-sex sexual contact in 2006! Are they all a bunch of dress-wearing nellies, like the ones you "polish your gun" thinking about, with wives who just don't notice that their dresses are all stretched out?

How about that big burly Negro basketball star who came out of the closet to announce that he, too, has demons in his colon? Is he wearing a dress?

Not only are you not a medical doctor, you're not half as intelligent as you think you are. The theory that you are so woefully mutilating states that Homerism may be the result of HORMONAL FLUCTUATIONS IN THE WOMB. The MOTHER'S hormones, not the HOMER'S hormones.

We, of course, know the truth! Homerism, pure and simple, is caused by GOD. In the book of Romans, Paul explains that God makes idolators into Homers to punish them.



I suggest you stop "playing doctor" with your roommates and making up "science" and start reading the Good Book!

You honestly don't listen to anyting I say, do you? There are many theories! There could possibly be more than one cause of homosexuality.
Also, some people are bisexual, some are curious, some are just horny,and some are actually genetically gay and can't help it.

And testosterone (synthetic or otherwise) is also a sex drive. They're probably just horny.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Is it possible to be both "gay" and a Christian?

But the true homosexuals are simply not attracted to the opposite sex. Not only that, they have either an inadequate or excess amount of testosterone. Testosterone gives women a male aspect and low testosterone gives males a female aspect, simply put. That's why women on steroids grow beards, and males with low testosterone like to wear dresses and make up and such.

You honestly don't listen to anyting I say, do you? There are many theories! There could possibly be more than one cause of homosexuality.
Also, some people are bisexual, some are curious, some are just horny,and some are actually genetically gay and can't help it.

And testosterone (synthetic or otherwise) is also a sex drive. They're probably just horny.

You contradict yourself more than the Koran.