[Gemira]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

This is mostly aimed at childbearing and the household (over which she has FULL dominion!)

BS, you're bearing false witness here. You know for a fact that LBC believes a man has full dominion over the household, as he is the one who tells the woman what to do in it. When to make dinner. What he wants clean by the time he gets home from work, and the corporal punishments for not complying.

[James Peter]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

I support all sexuality choices. And you should too, if you consider yourself a child of God.

I'm sorry, I usually don't side with Landover on anything, but I had to speak up.

Ma'am, I am a Catholic. YOU are not! Oh, I'm sure officially you are one, but you are not living the life of a Catholic at all!

The Roman Catholic Church has always been completely, 100% against homosexuality!

In medieval times, "abominable sodomites" were burnt alive at the stake on the orders of the Papal Inquisitors. As recently as the early nineteenth century, homosexuals were still being strung up on gallows in Britain with the blessing of Catholic leaders.

The latest Catechism, which sets out the basic doctrines of the Roman Church, was published in Britain in 1994. It is the first major revision of the Catechism since 1566.

The new Catechism describes homosexual acts as a "grave depravity" and "intrinsically disordered". It states that lesbian and gay relationships are "contrary to natural law ... and do not proceed from genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved".

the Catechism concludes: "Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery ... they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection".

In other words, lesbians and gay men are flawed human beings who can redeem themselves only by renouncing the feelings that are integral to their sexual and emotional orientation.



This was confirmed in a 1993 letter to the lesbian and gay rights group OutRage! from the Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales. Written on behalf of Cardinal Hume, the letter expressed the Catholic Church's support for discrimination against lesbians and gay men with regard to marriage and immigration rights, social housing, joint property, taxation, and welfare benefits. It turned down a request to endorse a reduction in the gay male age of consent to 16, to establish parity with heterosexuals. Indeed, there is no homosexual law reform which Cardinal Hume and his bishops feel able to support. They have given their official blessing to every key aspect of legal bias against lesbians and gay men.

They are the latest in a long line of antigay pronouncements by the Catholic Church.

In 1986, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (responsible for defining Roman Catholic doctrine and keeping Catholic clergy and theologians in line) issued a "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons". Ratzinger wrote that a homosexual orientation, even if the person is totally celibate, is a "tendency" toward an "intrinsic moral evil". Moreover, a homosexual inclination is both an "objective disorder" and a "moral disorder", which is "contrary to the creative wisdom of God". "Special concern and pastoral attention should be directed towards those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not." Ratzinger's 1986 Letter concludes that pastoral care for homosexual persons should include "the assistance of the psychological, sociological and medical sciences", and that "all support should be withdrawn from any organisations which seek to undermine the teachings of the Church, which are ambigous about it, or which ignore it entirely".


In July 1992, the Vatican issued a further proclamation authorised by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and by Pope John Paul II, entitled "Some Considerations Concerning the Catholic Response to Legislative Proposals on the Non-Discrimination of Homosexual Persons".



This document was designed to mobilise Catholic opinion against equal rights legislation for lesbians and gay men. It describes homosexuality as an "objective disorder" and a "tendency ordered towards an intrinsic moral evil". Rejecting the concept of homosexual "human rights", it asserts there is "no right" to homosexuality; adding that the civil liberties of lesbians and gay men can be "legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct".

While condemning "unjust" discrimination, the Vatican document says that some forms of antigay discrimination are "not unjust" and may even be "obligatory": especially with regard to "the consignment of children to adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or coaches, and in military recruitment".



the 1992 document suggests that when lesbians and gay men demand civil rights, "neither the Church nor society should be surprised when ... irrational and violent reactions increase".

This implies that by asking for human rights, lesbians and gay men encourage homophobic prejudice and violence

More recently, in February 1994, the Pope attacked the European Parliament's support for the repeal of antigay legislation in member states. Condemning homosexuality as an "aberrant deviation", he described proposals to remove discrimination as an "attack on the family" and accused Euro-MP's of "inappropriately conferring an institutional value on deviant behaviour".

In Italy, Bologna City Council in 1993 introduced an equal opportunities policy to give homosexual couples access to municipal housing on the same basis as heterosexual partners.

Cardinal Silvio Oddi condemned Bologna's decision as "bestiality" and warned that "divine retribution" would fall upon the city.

Cardinal John O'Connor, in the United States, ordered that gay Catholics dying of Aids should be refused the last rites unless they repent of their "sin" and renounce their partners. The New York diocese has supported a ban on Irish Catholic lesbians and gay men marching in New York's annual St. Patrick's Day parade. It is opposing attempts by the city's education authorities to encourage greater understanding and acceptance of homosexuals through the inclusion of nonjudgemental information about homosexual issues in the school curriculum.

In Nicaragua, Cardinal Obando y Bravo attacked homosexuality as "immoral" and publicly aligned the Catholic Church with the recriminalisation of lesbian and gay sexuality by President Chamorro's right-wing UNO coalition. Article 204 of the new criminal code stipulates three years' imprisonment for anyone who "induces, promotes, propagandises or practises in scandalous form concubinage between two people of the same sex". This legislation penalises not only victimless homosexual behaviour, but also the advocacy of homosexual human rights and a homosexual lifestyle.

At the 1995 UN International Women's Conference in Beijing, the Vatican opposed discussions on lesbian human rights and backed moves to block the participation of lesbian organisations and delegates.




The following year, a new Vatican handbook on education condemned homosexual relationships as a "disorder", and urged Catholic parents to remove their children from sex education classes that discuss gay sexuality and teach safer sex.



Also in 1996, the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore called on its readers to vote against political candidates who back legal equality for lesbians and gays. Attacking a huge same-sex partnership ceremony in San Francisco where dozens of homosexual couples made declarations of commitment with the endorsement of Mayor Willie Brown, the newspaper said: "The citizen who ... favours the election of a candidate formally committed to translating homosexual demands into law, cannot be without censure. Gay marriage fundamentally undermines the family model on which human civilisation was built ... The legislature cannot be turned into a clerk for changing habits, least of all deviant trends."

in Britain, at the height of the 1994 Parliamentary debate on the Age of Consent, Cardinal Hume declared that "homosexual genital acts, even between consenting adults, are morally wrong". He urged Parliament to be "cautious".

[Daisy Mae Johnson]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

I'm a woman. Thank you.
Oh, wait, I forgot that you people do not let women have voices.

Do you have your husband's or father's permission to be on the computer and pestering GOD'S Favorite people?

[GOD=life]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

I'm a woman. Thank you.
Oh, wait, I forgot that you people do not let women have voices.

Right. Please let us know the name of the first female pope and then we'll take you seriously.

Secondly, the Bible is pretty clear -- both in the New AND Old Testament that women have different roles than men. This is mostly aimed at childbearing and the household (over which she has FULL dominion!), but not in making important decisions.

That is one thing Catholics figured out as well... it's not a matter of religion, just nature. Even Muslims with their 3rd world religion figured it out.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

I'm a woman. Thank you. Oh, wait, I forgot that you people do not let women have voices.

We do allow woman to have voices, we just want them to have permission from their father or husband. But even if they don't we often still talk to them to try to save their souls from eternal damnation. We are nice Christians.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

Read the other things I said. I am about acceptance and love of other religions and lifestyles. Therefore I recognize that others have their own truths.

We did read all the things you said. I replied to all the things you said. Isn't it about time you start to do some reading !?

[CatholicandDamned]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

Well said, Mrs. Rogers. Let me repeat that a little more clearly for Mr. CatholicsCannotRead.

Yep, we must SURELY interpret that as "God is A OK with it".

I'm a woman. Thank you.
Oh, wait, I forgot that you people do not let women have voices.

[CatholicandDamned]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

And yet, you are doing exactly that...... irony.

Read the other things I said. I am about acceptance and love of other religions and lifestyles.
Therefore I recognize that others have their own truths.

[GOD=life]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

Well said, Mrs. Rogers. Let me repeat that a little more clearly for Mr. CatholicsCannotRead.

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Yep, we must SURELY interpret that as "God is A OK with it".

[GOD=life]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

Religion is not about rules and regulations. It is about tradition and acceptance and love.

Do you have scripture to back that up or are you just citing your opinion? Please do not bother telling us what you think we should do on our forum, thank you very much.

This is where conflict comes from, when someone feels they have a monopoly on truth.

And yet, you are doing exactly that...... irony.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

NO. You cannot prove religion.

We disagree. We think creation proves the existence of God. We think the Holy Bible proves the existence of God. Only God could have made a book that is so perfect, so complete, so consistent and so true. We humans can only be humble in admiring the LORD.

I am proud to be a Catholic.

I am proud to be a True Christian.

We do not skip passages, we take them in context, not out of context like you Baptists.

Can you please give me an example of a Bible verse we take out of context?

[Mrs. Rogers]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

We do not skip passages, we take them in context, not out of context like you Baptists.

Hmm. What do you take this verse to mean then?

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The people in this forum are literalists who quote things out of context in order to meet their own needs

So far I have quoted almost all parts of all your postings and responded to all of them.

when debating mindless facts that mean nothing

You consider the Bible to be "mindless facts that mean nothing", we consider it to be the Word of God.

Religion is not about rules and regulations. It is about tradition and acceptance and love.

Then why did God give us a Bible? To ignore it? Wouldn't that be silly?

This is where conflict comes from, when someone feels they have a monopoly on truth.

Ehm, God HAS a monopoly on the truth. He created EVERYTHING he knows EVERYTHING. I am starting to think you are not a catholic but an atheist.

[CatholicandDamned]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

Please don't promote your bisexuality here. This is a family forum.

No thank you. We prefer to follow the Holy Bible instead of going to hell.

CAN YOU FIND PROOF THAT SAYS SOMEONE WILL GO TO HELL IF THEY LOVE SOMEONE OTHER THAN AN OPPOSITE SEX PARTNER?

NO. You cannot prove religion.
I am a Catholic, and though they have changed my name (which means my first amendment has been violated) on this forum, I am proud to be a Catholic.

We do not skip passages, we take them in context, not out of context like you Baptists.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Things that cause homosexuality:

I support all sexuality choices.

Please don't promote your bisexuality here. This is a family forum.

And you should too, if you consider yourself a child of God.

No thank you. We prefer to follow the Holy Bible instead of going to hell.