[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Well I want to see you get real as much as the next True Christian™ I was being serious. You can hide things from some of the people some of the time ...

I'll admit to having a traumatic past...

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Hi All

True, but it's still another piece in the what is the actual supernatural realm puzzle. Even if the supernatural can absolutely be explained scientifically, it still creates the curiosity necessary to spark that search.

I assume there is a "not" missing in the second sentence there.

My question would be, why? Why spend any amount of time on an unanswerable question?

The only aspect of a presumed supernatural realm that we can measure in any way is the religious/mystical experience - something similar to what you feel in that replica of a megalith site, only stronger. There was a French philosopher or poet, and I cannot remember his name (I think it started with an "R"), but it was a guy and he's long dead, who said that such an experience is like trying to catch a waterfall in a glass of water. It is a very poetic metaphor, and it kinda shows the helplessness of trying to measure in a scientific way such an experience. Even if we artificially induce a religious experience through sensory deprivation, drugs, hyperventilation, or any other technique used through the millenia, such experiences are so individualized that there is not much of a common denominator to study. Now, a good shaman will tell you that a way to standardize religious experience is through preparing the novice by showing pictures and telling tales, so when he/she takes the ayahuasca he/she will see snakes with ears just like everybody else, but then, the novice doesn't see what's "really" out there, do they?

I remember reading Stanislav Grof long time ago. In the sixties, he was giving his patients (?) LSD to see what people experience in "other states of consciousness." This sort of experiment would be unthinkable today, but the result was quite predictable - people saw what they feared or wanted, therefore their experience was based on their personalities, their life histories, and not on something that is really "out there."

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to be considering what we should or shouldn't be giving up on. It just seems like as soon as we start determining what we should give up on, it starts a moral dilemma that could go very badly. I know that's just my personal opinion (and probably somewhat unrealistic).

I'm sure that when some people started talking that maybe we should give up human sacrifices others said that it could go very badly.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but if we stick to the old and known, we can never discover anything new.

That's not necessarily a bad idea in this context, but it has a potential of being horribly misused. I know that's not your intention, but what if someone else were to really broaden the idea of what canes represented. The last thing we need is for society to be fractured more than what it is already, and yes I know that's not where you were going with it.

Maybe I haven't expressed myself specifically enough, but my definition of a cane is a socially constructed support which isn't really there, it's just that people cheat themselves that it is there, and that makes them feel better.

Most older religious texts seem to be equal parts history and teachings. Look at the history of the Bible, especially the number of times it's been translated. There is a joke that does have a certain element of truth.

Sure, but please note that most modern translations use multiple sources, comparing them to find the most probable original meaning.

What is far more fascinating, is looking which texts have been included in the canon and which weren't - that tells you much more about the people who conducted the selection.

America was built on people trying to reinvent the wheel. The Founding Fathers began reinventing the wheel when they realized that there were other (better) systems of government, than the one that ruled us during the Colonial period.

They didn't reinvent anything, they carefully studied the Iroquois system and implemented it with some modifications, such as taking away women's right to vote. It really was a state-of-the-art modern system at the time, unfortunately nowadays it's a bit outdated - I'm talking about things like Electoral College here.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Amen, Brother! This one does nothing but nit-pick phrases and argue minutia that no decent person would think about the moment it leaves his mouth! Let's get Saved™ indeed!

Let's pray for her, shall we?

Dear Jesus,

We just lift up this poor, suffering, soul who goes by the ridiculous online name as "LocusSolace," whatever that's supposed to be. She's clearly hurting in the brain, and desires to share that pain with others via a never-ending delivery of navel-gazing personal insights that would be solved in any college freshman dorm pot-cloud of pseudo-insight and pretend wisdom. We just bring her to Your feet, that she may learn the value of kissing them. We just bring her to Your attention, that she may recognize the value of humility. We just bring her to the back door of your Throne Room, that she may see Your glory, but not get in your way or the way of anyone doing anything particularly important, or even not important, as she tends to yammer on and on and will distract even the most devout servant. We just plead for her that You would hit her over the head with a Holy 2x4, sort of like You did for Paul, back when he was Saul, and was equally annoying and persecuted Christians by talking them to death with foolishness, and also imprisoning them. We ask that You also consider striking her with blindness and if it's not too much trouble, make her fingers stiff so she can't type, and maybe her tongue limp to give her husband a break, the poor man. We just plead on her behalf, that You would take what little room she might have open in the door of her heart, and beg You to Chuck Norris that door the rest of the way in, so that You could be there instead of whatever foolishness she has stored in there. We Praise You in advance for this great miracle! We just Praise You and Glorify Your Holy Name!

Amen!

Thank you for your kind consideration. I'll be sure to let you know if any of the curses take effect.

[Back against wall]

Re: Hi All

Amen Sister Mary, just beautiful. Amen!

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hi All

This has gone on FOREVER! Anyone would think this girl was abused as a child or witnessed her father beat her mother to death or maybe even something traumatic. I mean COME ON! Lets get saved™ already.

Amen, Brother! This one does nothing but nit-pick phrases and argue minutia that no decent person would think about the moment it leaves his mouth! Let's get Saved™ indeed!

Let's pray for her, shall we?

Dear Jesus,

We just lift up this poor, suffering, soul who goes by the ridiculous online name as "LocusSolace," whatever that's supposed to be. She's clearly hurting in the brain, and desires to share that pain with others via a never-ending delivery of navel-gazing personal insights that would be solved in any college freshman dorm pot-cloud of pseudo-insight and pretend wisdom. We just bring her to Your feet, that she may learn the value of kissing them. We just bring her to Your attention, that she may recognize the value of humility. We just bring her to the back door of your Throne Room, that she may see Your glory, but not get in your way or the way of anyone doing anything particularly important, or even not important, as she tends to yammer on and on and will distract even the most devout servant. We just plead for her that You would hit her over the head with a Holy 2x4, sort of like You did for Paul, back when he was Saul, and was equally annoying and persecuted Christians by talking them to death with foolishness, and also imprisoning them. We ask that You also consider striking her with blindness and if it's not too much trouble, make her fingers stiff so she can't type, and maybe her tongue limp to give her husband a break, the poor man. We just plead on her behalf, that You would take what little room she might have open in the door of her heart, and beg You to Chuck Norris that door the rest of the way in, so that You could be there instead of whatever foolishness she has stored in there. We Praise You in advance for this great miracle! We just Praise You and Glorify Your Holy Name!

Amen!

[Back against wall]

Re: Hi All

Well I want to see you get real as much as the next True Christian™ I was being serious. You can hide things from some of the people some of the time ...

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Sister Mary you are so insightful my heart sings when you type. I must agree with you entirely. This has gone on FOREVER! Anyone would think this girl was abused as a child or witnessed her father beat her mother to death or maybe even something traumatic. I mean COME ON! Lets get saved™ already. My eyes are bleeding from the rectum (no thats not a typo)

Awww I miss you to. I really appreciate the fact that you keep coming back to read this, I must be saying something of worth for you to keep inflicting your eyes bleeding from the rectum on yourself.

[Back against wall]

Re: Hi All

Why don't you google vBulletin BBCode and see if you can learn something. This site is run by an interface called vBulletin and posting on a site uses code called BBCode (Bulletin Board Coade) Maybe spend a little time on it.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Dear, the last thing America needs is foolish people trying to reinvent the wheel, and poorly at that. You keep looking for some profound insight to explain your life, and yet you ignore the Truth™ that's starting at you in the face all the time.

America was built on people trying to reinvent the wheel. The Founding Fathers began reinventing the wheel when they realized that there were other (better) systems of government, than the one that ruled us during the Colonial period.

Your duty, the whole entire reason you exist, is to fear and obey the Lord God, King of Kings (Ecclesiastes 12:13). If this is not your entire purpose on earth then our whole faith is a lie, and because Christ was raised after a long weekend of death, I know my faith is True™ (1 Corinthians 15:14).

Why do my beliefs threaten yours? Also if we are suppose to love God why is it necessary to fear him? It's really hard to truly love someone that you fear.

Think about it, if this weren't the case, then mankind would find the alternative supernatural insight to be as obvious and objectively knowable as the boiling point of water. One would need no faith to observe and quantify the meaning of life. There would be no reason for someone like you to search for the Truth because the Truth would be objectively knowable. Either that, or would be subjectively determined. One might conclude something as silly as "The purpose of your life is to find meaning. When you notice the suffering of others, sympathy drives you to respond. Take the wheel and make that drive count. Take time to enjoy positive experiences in a genuine and sincere way. Share experiences, both good and bad, and even neutral, with others as often as desired. Repeat until the last breath is taken." In either case, one need not pursue foolish pseudo-deep navel-gazing bullshit in order to find contentment. And if contentment is not possible, if indeed the neurologists are right and the way one processes experiences is largely hard wired and out of our direct control, then one would simply do the next right thing. "Don't be a douche. Don't be a wussy" might be that person's motto, their meaning for life.

Comparing faith to something like the boiling temperature of water or 2+2=4 seems a bit odd to me. First there has to be an agreement that all people are involved are using the base 10 system. If both people aren't using that system, then all answers are correct (but correct for the numerical system being used).

But that would be foolhardy, because without faith in Christ, your life is wasted. You will suffer untold horrors and never-ending trauma to the body, mind, and soul for all eternity if you reject the fantastic story of Christ's self-parentage, birth, temporary death, resurrection, and ascension through the clouds out into inner space, then through outer space where He sits today, without apparent need of oxygen or pressure as found at sea level on the planet Earth (John 3:18).

There are people who are Christians that still suffer untold horrors and never-ending trauma to the body, mind, and soul. Finding a faith (in something) might help a person deal with the problems (or find meaning to their suffering), but it certainly hasn't stopped them from suffering.


By the way, thank you again for fixing my quotes. I appreciate it, I was having some real issues learning how to do it correctly.

[Back against wall]

Re: Hi All

Sister Mary you are so insightful my heart sings when you type. I must agree with you entirely. This has gone on FOREVER! Anyone would think this girl was abused as a child or witnessed her father beat her mother to death or maybe even something traumatic. I mean COME ON! Lets get saved™ already. My eyes are bleeding from the rectum (no thats not a typo)

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Hi All

That's not necessarily a bad idea in this context, but it has a potential of being horribly misused. I know that's not your intention, but what if someone else were to really broaden the idea of what canes represented. The last thing we need is for society to be fractured more than what it is already, and yes I know that's not where you were going with it.

Dear, the last thing America needs is foolish people trying to reinvent the wheel, and poorly at that. You keep looking for some profound insight to explain your life, and yet you ignore the Truth™ that's starting at you in the face all the time. Your duty, the whole entire reason you exist, is to fear and obey the Lord God, King of Kings (Ecclesiastes 12:13). If this is not your entire purpose on earth then our whole faith is a lie, and because Christ was raised after a long weekend of death, I know my faith is True™ (1 Corinthians 15:14).

Think about it, if this weren't the case, then mankind would find the alternative supernatural insight to be as obvious and objectively knowable as the boiling point of water. One would need no faith to observe and quantify the meaning of life. There would be no reason for someone like you to search for the Truth because the Truth would be objectively knowable. Either that, or would be subjectively determined. One might conclude something as silly as "The purpose of your life is to find meaning. When you notice the suffering of others, sympathy drives you to respond. Take the wheel and make that drive count. Take time to enjoy positive experiences in a genuine and sincere way. Share experiences, both good and bad, and even neutral, with others as often as desired. Repeat until the last breath is taken." In either case, one need not pursue foolish pseudo-deep navel-gazing bullshit in order to find contentment. And if contentment is not possible, if indeed the neurologists are right and the way one processes experiences is largely hard wired and out of our direct control, then one would simply do the next right thing. "Don't be a douche. Don't be a wussy" might be that person's motto, their meaning for life.

But that would be foolhardy, because without faith in Christ, your life is wasted. You will suffer untold horrors and never-ending trauma to the body, mind, and soul for all eternity if you reject the fantastic story of Christ's self-parentage, birth, temporary death, resurrection, and ascension through the clouds out into inner space, then through outer space where He sits today, without apparent need of oxygen or pressure as found at sea level on the planet Earth (John 3:18).

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

I never said that we should eliminate the study of social constructs about supernatural (=mythology). We just need to realize that study of what people think about the supernatural realm has absolutely nothing with the actual supernatural realm, if such a realm even exists.

True, but it's still another piece in the what is the actual supernatural realm puzzle. Even if the supernatural can absolutely be explained scientifically, it still creates the curiosity necessary to spark that search.

That sounds like a good hypothesis for a potentially important study.

Thanks

I dunno. Christianity in general and Catholic Church specifically -- because of its longevity and spread -- can easily be seen as the most powerful organized crime organization in the history of humankind. Is that something that can be cleaned? Or should be cleaned?

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to be considering what we should or shouldn't be giving up on. It just seems like as soon as we start determining what we should give up on, it starts a moral dilemma that could go very badly. I know that's just my personal opinion (and probably somewhat unrealistic).

Maybe showing more people that they do not really need their canes?

That's not necessarily a bad idea in this context, but it has a potential of being horribly misused. I know that's not your intention, but what if someone else were to really broaden the idea of what canes represented. The last thing we need is for society to be fractured more than what it is already, and yes I know that's not where you were going with it.

I looked it up. I'm usually more impressed by natural beauty than works of humans, but I get what you mean. I have a collection of sunsets, night sky, flowers, animals, and other photos I've take over the years, as my screen saver, and once it launches I just stare at it and forget what the heck I was doing. I don't find anything necessarily supernatural in that beauty, but it certainly has a positive/calming effect on me.

I love that place, it has a positive and calming effect on me as well. I think that was my Uncle's point though, to seek out ideals that have that type of effect.

It does. When you are not sure how it will look, feel free to click the "Preview Post" button and then edit accordingly.

Cool and thanks.

One thing I personally appreciate about this particular church, is its honesty. They do not shy away from the ugly majority of the Bible verses, they accept all of it as is. The problem with what they call "cherry pickers" -- those who pick and choose the verses they like and ignore the rest -- is that once you begin to question the validity of parts of the Bible, the whole building of infallibility crumbles down. If a sacred text is Word of God than it has to be 100% true, because if it isn't 100% true then we cannot trust any of it.

Most older religious texts seem to be equal parts history and teachings. Look at the history of the Bible, especially the number of times it's been translated. There is a joke that does have a certain element of truth.

A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He notices, however, that they are copying copies, and not the original books.
So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there was an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies. The head monk says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son."
So, he goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original. Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books crying. He asks what's wrong.
"The word is celebrate not celibate," says the old monk with tears in his eyes. http://www.orcca.on.ca/~elena/site/DidacticJokes.html

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Hi All

Leaving out the supernatural constructs eliminates a way of understanding humanity.

I never said that we should eliminate the study of social constructs about supernatural (=mythology). We just need to realize that study of what people think about the supernatural realm has absolutely nothing with the actual supernatural realm, if such a realm even exists.

It seems like cultures with the more demanding God figures and punishment/reward systems also have had the more demanding existences.

That sounds like a good hypothesis for a potentially important study.

Those that repeat history are doomed to repeat it. I don't think the goal should be to ignore the skeletons in religions closet. They have to be remembered. Perhaps a better goal would be to clean up the ideology and learn from said skeletons; learn to avoid the same mistakes so that history doesn't repeat itself.

I dunno. Christianity in general and Catholic Church specifically -- because of its longevity and spread -- can easily be seen as the most powerful organized crime organization in the history of humankind.

Is that something that can be cleaned? Or should be cleaned?

I absolutely agree that as soon as religion gets out of the private life domain it gets really oppressive. I don't have a real good answer for how to work around that either, at least not a universal answer.

Maybe showing more people that they do not really need their canes?

My Uncle took me to a place called Columcille (Columcille Megalith park in Bangor PA, if you would like to take a look). He told me that as long as my beliefs matched how this park felt, I would be on the right path. I know that may not work on humanity on a whole, but it made a huge impression on me.

I looked it up. I'm usually more impressed by natural beauty than works of humans, but I get what you mean. I have a collection of sunsets, night sky, flowers, animals, and other photos I've take over the years, as my screen saver, and once it launches I just stare at it and forget what the heck I was doing. I don't find anything necessarily supernatural in that beauty, but it certainly has a positive/calming effect on me.

I think maybe I got it this time. Does this look better?

It does. When you are not sure how it will look, feel free to click the "Preview Post" button and then edit accordingly.

Its amazing how many times you perfectly illustrate some of the points made by some of the less religious posters.

One thing I personally appreciate about this particular church, is its honesty. They do not shy away from the ugly majority of the Bible verses, they accept all of it as is. The problem with what they call "cherry pickers" -- those who pick and choose the verses they like and ignore the rest -- is that once you begin to question the validity of parts of the Bible, the whole building of infallibility crumbles down. If a sacred text is Word of God than it has to be 100% true, because if it isn't 100% true then we cannot trust any of it.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Mary, thank you for fixing my text boxes, I've been having a lot of trouble learning how to do that.

[LocusSolace]

Re: Hi All

Well, I think that you can care about myths with their archetypes and concepts and without caring for the supernatural realm they are supposed to represent. Whether you take a more Jungian view of looking for universals, or Levi-Strauss' view observing permutations and changes of different versions of a single myth, or any other myth analysis method, supernatural doesn't have to be a part of your study at all. In fact, in many cases it can't -- for example with the Bible, you either see it as the infallible Word of God, or split it apart to see echoes of Sumerian tales. The same with any other mythology, too: they are either an internally coherent image of the supernatural or a mosaic of distant echoes of older belief systems.

Leaving out the supernatural constructs eliminates a way of understanding humanity. It seems like cultures with the more demanding God figures and punishment/reward systems also have had the more demanding existences.

Sounds good in theory, but eliminating reasons for poverty, hunger, etc would mean changing the entire world system.

Isn't that what its coming down to one way or the other?

We actively support injustice each time we buy cheap clothes, shoes, electronics, food etc made by slave labor - and while I don't know, maybe you are extra conscious about these things, but most people do it every day without even giving it a second thought. You need much more than Occupy Wall Street to change that.

I know, and I try to be very conscious about them. I know I'm not as conscious about it as I should be, but I try to do as much as I can.

Part of that change would have to be a drastic change in ideology. What I'm not sure about, is can you clean up an ideology, such as Christianity, or Islam for that matter, which has been used to justify racism, genocide, ethnocide, misogyny, slavery, etc, and just wipe out that 1700/1300 years of bloody history and say that we are all for love&peace for all now, and please just don't look at millions of skeletons in our closets?

Those that repeat history are doomed to repeat it. I don't think the goal should be to ignore the skeletons in religions closet. They have to be remembered. Perhaps a better goal would be to clean up the ideology and learn from said skeletons; learn to avoid the same mistakes so that history doesn't repeat itself.

I'm definitely not a Star Trek specialist, but I've read a bit about several religions. I agree that religion has some pluses. As I've said before, it's a useful cane for people who feel too weak to stand on their own. Unfortunately, once we get out of private life domain into the public life domain, religions get pretty oppressive pretty fast. And what is most sad, is that the victims happily accept their oppression because they believe that's their guarantee to get to Heaven. How twisted is that?

Admittedly I love both Star Trek and Star Wars, and I have learned a lot from debating some of the ethics promoted in each. They are a learning tool in my path, but not necessarily for everyone.


If you ask for help, and receive help it's not necessarily a bad thing. It also doesn't take away from the fact that the person asking for help was able to succeed at the task.


I absolutely agree that as soon as religion gets out of the private life domain it gets really oppressive. I don't have a real good answer for how to work around that either, at least not a universal answer.


My family has a good mix of Christians, Atheists, and other assorted oddballs. One of my more defining moments in religious philosophy was after I left my Church. My Uncle took me to a place called Columcille (Columcille Megalith park in Bangor PA, if you would like to take a look). He told me that as long as my beliefs matched how this park felt, I would be on the right path. I know that may not work on humanity on a whole, but it made a huge impression on me.

P.S.: I'm not a HTML coding specialist either, but you desperately need a crash course on that. [ is used to open a code. ] is used to end a code. Adding extra ones screws up things.
Look at the difference:
[QUOTE=LocusSolace;1168952]text[/quote]
Which without playing with colors comes out as:

And that's what you've been doing:
[QUOTE]=LocusSolace;1168952]text[/quote]
Which without color change comes out as:

I know I need a crash course on HTML. The way I was doing it was the only way that I could get the text boxes to appear, and it looked normal when I previewed the post as well. I'll keep trying to figure it out.


I think maybe I got it this time. Does this look better?