[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Because the Bible in a year comments on Isaiah 6 expressed similar sentiments to what you have now stated, that God arbitrarily blinds and then punishes certain individuals. This is not the God I worship.

Ex:7:8: And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
Ex:7:9: When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Shew a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent
...
Ex:7:12: For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
Ex:7:13: And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
Ex:7:14: And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.

Just remind us what happened next... and in your explanation, you might mention why you do not believe in God The Father.

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Parables are by nature obscure, they have a hidden meaning. Jesus only revealed the meaning of His parables to His disciples (Mark 4:13-20). Jesus Himself says He preached in parables so that "them that are without" wouldn't understand. Read the verses above. They are very clear.

Exactly. God didn't create Hell for it to remain empty. God created eternal reward and eternal punishment; and He set up the rules in such a way, that most people will receive eternal punishment and very few will receive eternal reward.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Australia

I use and prefer the KJV Bible. I have used the same Oxford WM KJV for the last 50 years and still take it to our meetings. At my desk I read in the morning from an Interlinear RV/KJV and although I am not happy with many aspects of the NT portion of the RV, I appreciate some of the differences in the OT portion. I enjoy the RV distinction between prose and poetry. Even simple words like “tell” and “abroad” found in the KJV have shifted in meaning over the years. One of our Senior Expositors who studied the Book of Job over many years stated that the RV was a better translation of the Book of Job.

The Christian's choice of Bible translation doesn't depend on what makes you "not happy." The RV is based on different texts than the KJV. Textual criticism is another slippery slope. Who are we to question what should be in God's word? It's better simply to accept that the translators of the KJV got it 100% right 400 years ago based on the limited manuscripts available to them back then.

I used the terms "spiritual environment" and "law environment" based upon what I consider is the flow of thought from Romans 7 and 8, and a careful reading of these two chapters could clarify what I was trying to say. You may have a different perception of the flow of thought from Romans 7 to Romans 8.

What about the flow from Romans 8 to Romans 9, which is about God's sovereignty, i.e. how God hates some babies before they're born (Romans 9:13) and hardens people's hearts (Romans 9:18)?

Which brings us back to the topic of Isaiah 6.

I believe that this is one of the great enigmas or paradoxes of the Bible. Isaiah did not proceed to confuse, but together with the prophecies concerning Messiah, and the life and example of Hezekiah, he revealed the light of the truth of the Gospel. Those who ignored his testimony, stage by stage, were gradually blinded. In effect the preaching, together with their rebellious and hardened hearts blinded them, so the language attributes the blinding process to the preaching. Similarly Jesus is the true light and his testimony is simple and clear to all that have a humble and pure heart, but others are blinded. Others could explain and express this process better.

Preaching only caused some of the blindness.

Mark 4:11-12: 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Parables are by nature obscure, they have a hidden meaning. Jesus only revealed the meaning of His parables to His disciples (Mark 4:13-20). Jesus Himself says He preached in parables so that "them that are without" wouldn't understand. Read the verses above. They are very clear.

The Bible is also clear that God also caused some of the blindness.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

As I mentioned before, "He" is "God."

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Greetings Pastor Ezekiel, Dr Elmer White and Geetings again Alan,

Well friend, there is only one God and that is the God of the 1611 King James Bible Authorized Edition.

I agree that there is only ONE God, the God of the Bible. I use and prefer the KJV Bible. I have used the same Oxford WM KJV for the last 50 years and still take it to our meetings. At my desk I read in the morning from an Interlinear RV/KJV and although I am not happy with many aspects of the NT portion of the RV, I appreciate some of the differences in the OT portion. I enjoy the RV distinction between prose and poetry. Even simple words like “tell” and “abroad” found in the KJV have shifted in meaning over the years. One of our Senior Expositors who studied the Book of Job over many years stated that the RV was a better translation of the Book of Job.

I think that you are in danger. You have presented here [my edits] two examples of thought patterns that can lead to grave consequences. You are on the edge of the chasm that falls into the pit of historical-critical Bible study, one method of exegetics. Once you start on this path which is NOT the path recommended by Jesus (Matthew 7:14), it leads into literary criticism of the Bible, dismissal of the literal reading and ultimately apostasy.

Please let me elaborate.

You are on the verge of seeing "discrepancies" between the texts of Mark and Matthew.

I do not see a conflict between Mark and Matthew. I believe that both Mark and Matthew are a summary of the full range of what Jesus said. What I believe that this indicates is that what Jesus actually said at the time was more extensive, covering both records. The one suggests that the Jews shut their own eyes, while the other that God closed their eyes. Both are true – refer my poor attempt at explanation to Alan below.

Enter Luke: the man who was the first to tie the story of Jesus into History with the pre-birth scenes and, first and foremost, the Acts….

I believe in the FULL inspiration of the Bible and completely unfamiliar with your scholarly references to some form of higher criticism.

What about the Epistles? The path you have almost chosen is filled with hazards. You are making choices of "important" and "less important" based on the notion that it is more precious to concentrate on "the spiritual environment" than on the "law environment". Why?

ALL of the Epistles are important. EVERY word of God is important. I used the terms "spiritual environment" and "law environment" based upon what I consider is the flow of thought from Romans 7 and 8, and a careful reading of these two chapters could clarify what I was trying to say. You may have a different perception of the flow of thought from Romans 7 to Romans 8. A few key verses may be sufficient:
Romans 7:5,7-8 (KJV): 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Romans 8:2 (KJV): For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Then the quest for "Historical Jesus", perhaps?

I believe that the four records of the life of Jesus are true and inspired.

Please do not take this path. Instead, Accept and choose Jesus as He is (Exodus 3:14, John 3:14).

Now that you have mentioned Exodus 3:14, what do you think of Tyndale’s use of the future tense in his translation?
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

Remember Isaiah 6 in it's original context. Like Jesus, Isaiah was sent on a mission to be misunderstood so that God could go ahead and destroy the Jews. God told him to make people's ears heavy and to shut their eyes.

I believe that this is one of the great enigmas or paradoxes of the Bible. Isaiah did not proceed to confuse, but together with the prophecies concerning Messiah, and the life and example of Hezekiah, he revealed the light of the truth of the Gospel. Those who ignored his testimony, stage by stage, were gradually blinded. In effect the preaching, together with their rebellious and hardened hearts blinded them, so the language attributes the blinding process to the preaching. Similarly Jesus is the true light and his testimony is simple and clear to all that have a humble and pure heart, but others are blinded. Others could explain and express this process better.

Kind regards
Trevor

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Well.... there really isn't much else to add after that enlightening homily by Dr. White.

I noticed that you quoted Mark’s record, but Matthew’s record helps to give a wider perspective:
Matthew 13:13-15 (KJV): 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Remember Isaiah 6 in it's original context. Like Jesus, Isaiah was sent on a mission to be misunderstood so that God could go ahead and destroy the Jews. God told him to make people's ears heavy and to shut their eyes.

Isaiah 6:8-12: 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, 12 And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Greetings from Austria

... I noticed that you quoted Mark’s record, but Matthew’s record helps to give a wider perspective:

...Romans 7 is principally a Law environment, while Romans 8 is a Spirit environment. The Law and its negative environment of Commandments did not bring faith, humility and obedience in most that were under the Law...

Kind regards
Trevor

Dear Trevor,

I think that you are in danger. You have presented here [my edits] two examples of thought patterns that can lead to grave consequences. You are on the edge of the chasm that falls into the pit of historical-critical Bible study, one method of exegetics. Once you start on this path which is NOT the path recommended by Jesus (Matthew 7:14), it leads into literary criticism of the Bible, dismissal of the literal reading and ultimately apostasy.

Please let me elaborate.

You are on the verge of seeing "discrepancies" between the texts of Mark and Matthew. You are not the first one to do so and unfortunately not the last one, either. Respected scholars (by the academic community, not by Jesus) have established that the Gospels do not supplement each other but, in fact, debate each other. Hence, Mark presents the "hidden messiah" of Jesus, the "adopted son" with its Greek full of semitisms but its content clearly targeted at the Hellenistic audience. Matthew opposes this by making Jesus an essentially Jewish Messiah. You dismiss the Law of Romans 7 but, in fact, Matthew is the "Gospel of Law" IF we follow this historical-critical agenda. See Matthew 5:17-18. With this path these utterances of the Law do indeed seem contradictory to Jesus' ideas about the Sabbath, etc.

Enter Luke: the man who was the first to tie the story of Jesus into History with the pre-birth scenes and, first and foremost, the Acts. The historical-critical view takes this as an effort to bind the mythical Gestalt into written history. And, please, let us not start with the "Q" the Quelle. It is just a tool of these scholars to claim that the Gospels are not original but indeed reactions of different types of the Jesus cult to each other.

John? Again (according to this secular view), we see a text created to debate especially Mark but also Matthew. No longer is Faith adequate. The synoptics are not very keen on showing Miracles of "signs", anyone can do those and you are supposed to believe based on Faith and not some conjuring tricks. I give you just a couple of examples:

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

What about John? His Jesus relies on signs, i.e., Miracles to make Himself known. Apparently (according to this view), the populace of his region had failed to believe based on blind Faith but required anecdotal evidence.

John 2:11
This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

John 20:30
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

This path leads to ever increasing confusion. Instead, we must just ACCEPT that the logic of the academic scholar is useless when it comes to Jesus. He does what He pleases and only requires Repentance, Faith, Acceptance and Obedience. He CAN trick us as a test.

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

What about the Epistles? The path you have almost chosen is filled with hazards. You are making choices of "important" and "less important" based on the notion that it is more precious to concentrate on "the spiritual environment" than on the "law environment". Why? The Jesus of Matthew was fond of the Law. The next step for you could be to re-arrange the Bible based on the dating of the manuscripts? Paul first, the "pseudoepigraphies" obviously discarded? Then the Gospels and the other Epistles thereafter? What about Hebrews? Where does it stand?

Then the quest for "Historical Jesus", perhaps? Please let us not start with the "criterion of embarrassment" as it is embarrassing only for the scholars. If you choose that path the only rational way is to discard the Historical Jesus and accept the Myth Hypothesis of Christianity being one of the multiple mystery religions of the 1st Century AD. Textual analysis, historical criticism and literary analyses all lead to this conclusion: there is nothing unique about the New Testament.

We, on the other hand, know that it IS unique because unlike the fictional myths, it contains the Historical and Literate Truth™.

Please do not take this path. Instead, Accept and choose Jesus as He is (Exodus 3:14, John 3:14).


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Greetings from Austria

This is not the God I worship.



Kind regards
Trevor

Well friend, there is only one God and that is the God of the 1611 King James Bible Authorized Edition. You can of course choose to worship Him or not, as He gave you free will for such decisions. But what you CANNOT do is reinterpret or cherry pick which verses you endorse from His Holy Word. God is always right, He is never wrong, and He has never made a mistake.

By the way, you might be interested in taking a look at my Sermon on how one can tell which is the one TRUE Word of God. You will find it HERE.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Greetings again Alan and James Hutchins,

Are we reading the same Bible?
Who is He? It's God who blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts so they couldn't believe.

I propose the following process of decline and hardening:
1. Jesus spoke in parables so that people wouldn't understand. He did not want their sins to be forgiven.
2. God hardened people's hearts so that they wouldn't believe the miracles of Jesus because He didn't want to heal them (John 12:39-40).
3. After blinding people to the truth right in front of them, God will punish them for eternity for not seeing it.

It seems we could have a different reading or discernment of the ONE Bible, and a different perspective of the ONE God, who is not a respecter of persons. I noticed that you quoted Mark’s record, but Matthew’s record helps to give a wider perspective:
Matthew 13:13-15 (KJV): 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Jesus had already stated that God’s choice of individuals was not arbitrary alone, but because certain were “wise and prudent”, while the disciples were “babes”.
Matthew 11:25-26 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

And immediately after this he makes a universal call to ALL:
Matthew 11:28-30 (KJV): 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What didn't you like about them?

Because the Bible in a year comments on Isaiah 6 expressed similar sentiments to what you have now stated, that God arbitrarily blinds and then punishes certain individuals. This is not the God I worship.

Why? It's all God's word.

Romans 7 is principally a Law environment, while Romans 8 is a Spirit environment. The Law and its negative environment of Commandments did not bring faith, humility and obedience in most that were under the Law.

Absolutely. Any person to whom God choose to fit with a brain can do it. That is the beauty of the Bible. It was written for the simplest of minds.
Psalm 8: 1-8
Isaiah 6: 1-13
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
Galatians 1:1-24
If you need more, let me know.

Yes, for brevity I left one verse for comment. Could you please explain who or what are the Seraphims, and why did one of them cover his face with two wings, and his feet with two wings and with two others fly? Does these symbolic or actual actions by the Seraphim have a fulfillment in the OT or the NT? Or was it some simple irrelevant detail that any brain can see and understand?

Kind regards
Trevor

[James Hutchins]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Greetings again Alan, and Greetings Dr Laurence Niles, Alphonse Alban and James Hutchins,

..................
I read the entire Bible and seek to grow in understanding, but over the years I have come to understand some portions better than others. Perhaps this selection has been because of my limited capacity or dedication, but if I asked you to give a brief but comprehensive summary of Psalm 8, Isaiah 6 and Galatians could you respond. Take an obscure feature: Why did the Seraphim cover his face with one pair of wings, his feet with another pair of wings and with the other pair fly? Most probably you could ask me how I understand other portions of the Scriptures and I would have difficulty. The reserve land of a few acres near us was granted to a local tribe and the government built them a duplex housing, and a family or two of Aboriginal descent has occupied this some ten years ago. They have been good neighbours. My contact and involvement and identification with Jesus was and is a gradual process and I could list a few defining moments in my teen years and a few times of crisis and failure. I was baptised by immersion in water at 21 years after a belief and confession of the gospel Acts 8:5,12.

Kind regards
Trevor

Absolutely. Any person to whom God choose to fit with a brain can do it. That is the beauty of the Bible. It was written for the simplest of minds.
Psalm 8
8 O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!


Isaiah 6
6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12 And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.


Galatians 1
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
21 Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
24 And they glorified God in me.




If you need more, let me know.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Yes John 12 is a strong link with Isaiah 6, and it is significant that Isaiah 53, the end result of the process started in Isaiah 6 is also united here in John’s record. I believe that the Jews failure to see and hear and their hardness of heart were a gradual process. The following is a suggestion of this process of decline and hardening:
1. Their failure to listen and respond to such teaching as Matthew 5-7.
2. Their failure to properly respond and be humbled by the miracles Matthew 11:20-24.
3. Their failure to seek the meaning of the parables and respond in a teachable way Matthew 13:10-16.
4. Their failure to respond in a single-minded way at the end of his public ministry as detailed in John 12, in contrast to the sincere response of the Greeks.
5. The fullness of their rejection when they crucified our Lord.
6. The failure of most of the Jews at Rome to respond Acts 28.

Are we reading the same Bible?

John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Who is He? It's God who blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts so they couldn't believe.

I propose the following process of decline and hardening:

1. Jesus spoke in parables so that people wouldn't understand. He did not want their sins to be forgiven.
   
   

   Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
   Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

2. God hardened people's hearts so that they wouldn't believe the miracles of Jesus because He didn't want to heal them (John 12:39-40).
   
3. After blinding people to the truth right in front of them, God will punish them for eternity for not seeing it.
   
   

   Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

   Note that this parable comes right after Jesus quote from Isaiah 6.

I was a bit disappointed at some of the comments on Isaiah 6 in the Bible in a year forum.

What didn't you like about them?

I also believe that we should move out of the negative environment of Romans 7 whenever possible and replace it with the Romans 8 environment, especially considering and espousing the basis, the teaching and all-embracing sentiments of Romans 8:1-3.

Why? It's all God's word.

Second Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Greetings again Alan, and Greetings Dr Laurence Niles, Alphonse Alban and James Hutchins,

You're right. Most people find it perplexing that someone could go around healing the sick and raising the dead and yet not make much of an impression. Jesus quoted Isaiah 6 to explain why. God had blinded people to His miracles so that they wouldn't be converted or healed.

Yes John 12 is a strong link with Isaiah 6, and it is significant that Isaiah 53, the end result of the process started in Isaiah 6 is also united here in John’s record. I believe that the Jews failure to see and hear and their hardness of heart were a gradual process. The following is a suggestion of this process of decline and hardening:
1. Their failure to listen and respond to such teaching as Matthew 5-7.
2. Their failure to properly respond and be humbled by the miracles Matthew 11:20-24.
3. Their failure to seek the meaning of the parables and respond in a teachable way Matthew 13:10-16.
4. Their failure to respond in a single-minded way at the end of his public ministry as detailed in John 12, in contrast to the sincere response of the Greeks.
5. The fullness of their rejection when they crucified our Lord.
6. The failure of most of the Jews at Rome to respond Acts 28.

Lucky we're special enough to see the truth.

I believe that a similar process happened in Isaiah’s day and despite appearances is happening today. I was a bit disappointed at some of the comments on Isaiah 6 in the Bible in a year forum.

Dr Laurence: Concerning your question, the Scriptures give a comparison between the life and choices of Abraham and Lot. I would prefer to be in the company and fellowship of Abraham. Some of my favourite verses were given to Abraham after Lot separated from him, and Paul’s comments are significant:
Genesis 13:14-15 (KJV): 14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Galatians 3:8,16,26-29 (KJV): 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Also the comments by Paul in Romans 1 are appropriate. I also believe that we should move out of the negative environment of Romans 7 whenever possible and replace it with the Romans 8 environment, especially considering and espousing the basis, the teaching and all-embracing sentiments of Romans 8:1-3.

How do you feel about that your famous countryman has started going crazy on his golden years?

The title of this thread has been altered or corrupted only in the last few Posts #11-13 and also appears now in Post #1. But if you look at the earlier Posts #2-10 they state the original thread title “Greetings from Australia”. Possibly the Administrators or Moderators could correct this.

So Trevor, while I can appreciate a man making choices in life, liking a porterhouse over a Filet, I cannot get my head around any person thinking that one part of the Bible is better than another or carries more significance. Perhaps I missed the section in the KJV where it states "The following is optional."

I read the entire Bible and seek to grow in understanding, but over the years I have come to understand some portions better than others. Perhaps this selection has been because of my limited capacity or dedication, but if I asked you to give a brief but comprehensive summary of Psalm 8, Isaiah 6 and Galatians could you respond. Take an obscure feature: Why did the Seraphim cover his face with one pair of wings, his feet with another pair of wings and with the other pair fly? Most probably you could ask me how I understand other portions of the Scriptures and I would have difficulty.

What do you do about the ongoing abo problem?
Whne did you realize it was Jesus touching you and relieving all that pent up angst? I was about 12 and having His grip on my hardened soul, pulling the demons from within me in an eruption of feverish glory was indescribable.

The reserve land of a few acres near us was granted to a local tribe and the government built them a duplex housing, and a family or two of Aboriginal descent has occupied this some ten years ago. They have been good neighbours. My contact and involvement and identification with Jesus was and is a gradual process and I could list a few defining moments in my teen years and a few times of crisis and failure. I was baptised by immersion in water at 21 years after a belief and confession of the gospel Acts 8:5,12.

Kind regards
Trevor

[James Hutchins]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Welcome Trevor (I can call you Trevor, as I figured that is your name, right?)
So Trevor, while I can appreciate a man making choices in life, liking a porterhouse over a Filet, I cannot get my head around any person thinking that one part of the Bible is better than another or carries more significance. Perhaps I missed the section in the KJV where it states "The following is optional."

How many sons have been expressed from the loins of your wife?
What do you do about the ongoing abo problem?
Whne did you realize it was Jesus touching you and relieving all that pent up angst? I was about 12 and having His grip on my hardened soul, pulling the demons from within me in an eruption of feverish glory was indescribable.

[Alphonse Alban]

Re: Greetings from Austria

Guten Tag and willcommen!

How do you feel about that your famous countryman has started going crazy on his golden years?

Here’s the text of Schwarzenegger’s head-on challenge to his doubters:


I see your questions.
Each and every time I post on my Facebook page or tweet about my crusade for a clean energy future, I see them.
There are always a few of you, asking why we should care about the temperature rising, or questioning the science of climate change.
I want you to know that I hear you. Even those of you who say renewable energy is a conspiracy. Even those who say climate change is a hoax. Even those of you who use four letter words.
I’ve heard all of your questions, and now I have three questions for you.
Let’s put climate change aside for a minute. In fact, let’s assume you’re right.
First – do you believe it is acceptable that 7 million people die every year from pollution? That’s more than murders, suicides, and car accidents – combined.
Every day, 19,000 people die from pollution from fossil fuels. Do you accept those deaths? Do you accept that children all over the world have to grow up breathing with inhalers?
Now, my second question: do you believe coal and oil will be the fuels of the future?
Besides the fact that fossil fuels destroy our lungs, everyone agrees that eventually they will run out. What’s your plan then?
I, personally, want a plan. I don’t want to be like the last horse and buggy salesman who was holding out as cars took over the roads. I don’t want to be the last investor in Blockbuster as Netflix emerged.
That’s exactly what is going to happen to fossil fuels.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/i-dont-give-a-if-we-agree-arnold-schwarzeneggers-epic-rant-about-climate-change-2015-12

Arnold a hippie! Who would have thought that he believes the lies of the lieberal media. Of course oil is harmless and it can't run out. God will aways create some more if needed.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: Greetings from Austria

This is my first Post after registering recently. My main aim in joining is to discuss the Bible and the Gospel of Christ. I hope to learn by interaction with other believers. I have a special interest in various books of the Bible, such as Psalms, Isaiah and Galatians and if I see any discussion on these I would at least read and possibly discuss what is on this thread.

I enjoy collecting books and have an extensive library of general interest books, but also like Bible reference books and similar resources.

Kind regards
Trevor

Welcome to God's favourite forum! We are one of the friendliest forums on the Inter Nets (and for my money, the best).

It's always nice to hear from people from a different culture (I was very sorry to hear about Falco's death: a real tragedy to music).

What are your country's stance on the tricky subject of the homersexualistically oriented agenda?

We are plagued with them.

YIC

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Psalm 8 and Isaiah 6 are quoted and expounded in the NT, and this exposition is thus Divinely inspired and an understanding of both the OT and NT usage helps to fill out the picture.

You're right. Most people find it perplexing that someone could go around healing the sick and raising the dead and yet not make much of an impression. Jesus quoted Isaiah 6 to explain why. God had blinded people to His miracles so that they wouldn't be converted or healed.

John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Lucky we're special enough to see the truth.