[Xanax]

Re: Intro

Nope. I never ignore the Holy Bible. Not. One. Word.


I know the Bible, I know that God would like us to love everyone and that He wants (key word) to love us. Just like we want to love a child, if the child is bad or possessed with demons, the best thing we can do is dispose of it.
Consider a wife. If she is dutiful, does her chores, does not blather on and on, it is possible to love and value her. No question. But if she fails to fulfill her responsibilities (like bearing male babies) then something has to change.


OK, I went over the 'love thy wife part.' Now show me how the Bible tells us to ignore parts of it.

I didn't say the Bible says to ignore parts of it, but you are ignoring all the verses I brought to the table. And the bible tells husbands to love their wives. There are no conditions. It does not say to love our wives only if they clean, have children, does chores.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Intro

But are you not ignoring all the verses that I have provided? Could I not say the same thing to you.

Nope. I never ignore the Holy Bible. Not. One. Word.


I know the Bible, I know that God would like us to love everyone and that He wants (key word) to love us. Just like we want to love a child, if the child is bad or possessed with demons, the best thing we can do is dispose of it.
Consider a wife. If she is dutiful, does her chores, does not blather on and on, it is possible to love and value her. No question. But if she fails to fulfill her responsibilities (like bearing male babies) then something has to change.


OK, I went over the 'love thy wife part.' Now show me how the Bible tells us to ignore parts of it.

[Xanax]

Re: Intro

You have to read the complete Bible and not just the parts you like. An old saying is "How can you have any dessert until you eat your meat'.
I love driving my big rig across country. But I hate filling the two 55 gallon tanks. I cannot drive forever unless I keep my tanks filled. I cannot have one without the other.
To ignore half of the Bible is like smiling at God and shaking His pearlescent hand and shooting Him with a gun.

Now, please post passages where it says it is fine and dandy to ignore parts.

But are you not ignoring all the verses that I have provided? Could I not say the same thing to you.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Intro

Thanks for your reply Elmer. I am sorry but I cannot support that God hates some people because the Bible clearly says that God loves the WORLD and that Christ died for everyone. If he did hate some people that would mean that Salvation is not for all and that goes against the Bible completely. If He didn’t die for everyone then what He did on the cross has no value. But I really do appreciate the time you took to explain your belief on the matter. To be honest you are the only one on this forum who has presented anything of substance. You have given me something to think about. I will definitely be studying the Bible more.

To be honest, I feel like everyone else on the forum is biased and not willing to hear what anyone says. As your pastor even posted, “...we are right and you are wrong.” No one has addressed a single verse that I have addressed in relation to how God Loves everyone or that men and women are equal (women are not put on the earth to serve man).

You have to read the complete Bible and not just the parts you like. An old saying is "How can you have any dessert until you eat your meat'.
I love driving my big rig across country. But I hate filling the two 55 gallon tanks. I cannot drive forever unless I keep my tanks filled. I cannot have one without the other.
To ignore half of the Bible is like smiling at God and shaking His pearlescent hand and shooting Him with a gun.


Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Now, please post passages where it says it is fine and dandy to ignore parts.

[Xanax]

Re: Intro

Thanks for your reply Elmer. I am sorry but I cannot support that God hates some people because the Bible clearly says that God loves the WORLD and that Christ died for everyone. If he did hate some people that would mean that Salvation is not for all and that goes against the Bible completely. If He didn’t die for everyone then what He did on the cross has no value. But I really do appreciate the time you took to explain your belief on the matter. To be honest you are the only one on this forum who has presented anything of substance. You have given me something to think about. I will definitely be studying the Bible more.

To be honest, I feel like everyone else on the forum is biased and not willing to hear what anyone says. As your pastor even posted, “...we are right and you are wrong.” No one has addressed a single verse that I have addressed in relation to how God Loves everyone or that men and women are equal (women are not put on the earth to serve man).

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Intro

Mr. Sinner,

I can now see what is going on in here.

You're employing a psychological phenomenon called confirmation bias. It means that you only accept information that supports your preconceptions ("God loves everyone") and dismiss or disregard any data that would contradict your established but fragile world view. We've shown you verses that unambiguously tell us how God hates some people. Instead of assessing them, you simply negate these verses by quoting other, admittedly wonderful, passages from the Bible. We are fully aware of those verses, and they tell us how God loves those who have chosen Him and fear Him and obey Him (Ecclesiastes 12:13).

However, quoting other verses does not make the ones we provided disappear, does it? This is confirmation bias: failure to even see that there is more to the Bible than what you've accepted. You're disobeying an important rule.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

All Scripture. We use it to correct your errors.

Now, love. And hate. The pivotal verses to solve this apparent discrepancy between your limited view and the whole Bible are, as follows:

Exodus 20:5-6
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God tells us abundantly about the glorious future of those who accept Him. He'll love us back. But there are those who refuse. Thus, hate. The same confirmation bias rules your views about sin. By referring to verses that discuss sin in the past tenses you make a hasty generalization (which is a fallacy) about our current state, which, as we explained to you based on the Bible, is free from sin.



If you wish to have more evidence about your usage of confirmation bias, let us look at our previous conversation.

Now, did you read the verses about Esau. How can you justify that God does not express hate there. Even in the original Greek it is crystal clear:

• καθάπερ γέγραπται Τὸν Ἰακὼβ ἠγάπησα, τὸν δὲ Ἠσαῦ ἐμίσησα. The verb is in aorist active indicative, 1st person singular. A direct quote from God. The dictionary form is μισέω, "hate". Don't try the "love less" ad hoc escape by some badly educated scholars. If you took that initiative, you'd get into all kinds of trouble, for instance, in John 3:20 φαῦλα πράσσων μισεῖ τὸ φῶς. The Evil would then "love the light less" but we know that He hates Jesus. If he loved light "less", he would still love Jesus, which is contradictory.

Now, please explain the Esau verses!

Next, you posted a reply, after my post, as follows:

In regards to Esau, if you look at the word hate in the original language it holds a different meaning than in english. It means that Esau was less privileged than Jacob and did not have the protection that God provided Jacob.

You really failed to see that the question of the original language had already been assessed? Can you see now how you simply dismiss anything that does not fit your premeditated personal Bible?

μισέω

As I explained, people (such as you) have tried to explain it away. Let us remember that the Bible was only a tiny fraction of Greek literature produced during those centuries. μισέω is also present in other texts. There is also another verb, εχθαίρω, that is frequently encountered (Aischylus, Aristotle, Sophocles among others). The Bible uses the first one in the cases you dismissed. We should look at the Hellenic world and its literature in a wider scope to understand the subtleties of meaning. A good primer is Dossier: Comment se définissent et se construisent les émotions en Grèce ancienne? Comment sont elles instrumentalisées? Différents types d’émotions (la douleur, l’amour, la jalousie, le dégoût, la haine, la colère, etc.), leur valeur, leur place et leurs fonctions sont analysés. Les auteurs se demandent si et en quoi, pour les Anciens, leur perception, leur description et leur compréhension, ainsi que leur pratique diffèrent des nôtres. There we can see how μισέω is the emotional hate. That is the hate used in the Bible. On the other hand, εχθαίρω would be the "social, practical" hate. It would be the "hate the institution of sin, not the sinner". ἐχθρός, -ή, -όν can be found in the NT but as a noun (Judges 14:18 in LXX does use it as a verb). Not in the Esau verses, they use μισέω. Nowhere in other Greek literature is there a reference to "being less privileged".

I am afraid that I have allocated too much time to trying to help you. I am only praying that you won't reply by not discussing what you've been told and simply by pasting some additional verses or tu quoque (or other ad hominem) fallacies as an ad hoc escape.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Didymus Much]

Re: Intro

Well I really do hope I see them in heaven!!!!

You think you're going to be there?

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

How do you know what to do, as you can't trust what the Bible says (see your own post #9 in this thread)?

[Dana723]

Re: Intro

I am sorry but in this matter you are wrong according to the Bible. We are told in the bible to love others. Calling people scum and an a** is not doing that. Just because I made valid points and it goes against your beliefs does not give you the liberty to do whatever you want.


I am the one who was calm during this discussion, it was your flock who was inappropriate and immature.


But anyways, I know I am a Christian and I know that I am a Child of God and I don't need a Pastor to tell me so because I follow the God and what He teaches in His Word.


I pray that God would reveal himself to you and to those in your flock who are unsaved. Please don't use the Bible to spread hate. Rather use it to spread the love of the Gospel and Christ sacrifice for us on the cross.

How dare you argue with Pastor Ezekiel, second only to Jesus Himself and Donald Trump in speaking the truth!

[Xanax]

Re: Intro

The difference is that they have read the Bible, and know what is actually sin, and what isn't (like calling someone names they don't like), so they can follow the Word of God and go to Heaven and you can't.


Nyah nyah nyah.

Well I really do hope I see them in heaven!!!!

[James Hutchins]

Re: Intro

I am sorry but in this matter you are wrong according to the Bible. We are told in the bible to love others. Calling people scum and an a** is not doing that. Just because I made valid points and it goes against your beliefs does not give you the liberty to do whatever you want.


I am the one who was calm during this discussion, it was your flock who was inappropriate and immature.


But anyways, I know I am a Christian and I know that I am a Child of God and I don't need a Pastor to tell me so because I follow the God and what He teaches in His Word.


I pray that God would reveal himself to you and to those in your flock who are unsaved. Please don't use the Bible to spread hate. Rather use it to spread the love of the Gospel and Christ sacrifice for us on the cross.

You have to be a SJW.
Leviticus 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Deuteronomy 32:19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psalm 53:5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

Psalm 73:20 As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Psalm 78:59 When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:

Psalm 106:40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Proverbs 6:16-19 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 22:14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Lamentations 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Malachi 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Revelation 2:6; 15 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Intro

...If you believe I breached the terms, what about your fellow congregation who called me an a**, bi***, scum etc. Should not they be held to the same standards? Or are they allowed to sin?

The difference is that they have read the Bible, and know what is actually sin, and what isn't (like calling someone names they don't like), so they can follow the Word of God and go to Heaven and you can't.


Nyah nyah nyah.

[Xanax]

Re: Intro

You don't seem to have answered my question about your allegedly "valid" points, but never mind. I don't think anyone seriously expected you to do that.

(As an aside, this suggests that you may be in breach of the terms and conditions of this website, which you consented to when you registered. And God is not an enormous fan of liars.)

God's love for humanity: VALID Points
Psalm 86:5 - "You, Lord, are forgiving and good, abounding in love to all who call to you."


John 3:16-"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. "


Romans 5:8 - "God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."


2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


Woman are equal to men:
Deborah was a prophet chosen by God to lead the men and women of Israel.


Judges 4:4 - "Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading[a] Israel at that time. "


Judges 4:14 - "Then Deborah said to Barak, “Go! This is the day the Lord has given Sisera into your hands. Has not the Lord gone ahead of you?” So Barak went down Mount Tabor, with ten thousand men following him."


This last verse explains that Deborah commanded Barak to go and he obeyed. If men and women are not equal, why would God chose Deborah as a leader.


If you actually read through the posts, you would realize that I already mentioned these points




AND....
If you believe I breached the terms, what about your fellow congregation who called me an a**, bi***, scum etc. Should not they be held to the same standards? Or are they allowed to sin?

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Intro

You don't seem to have answered my question about your allegedly "valid" points, but never mind. I don't think anyone seriously expected you to do that.

I apologize if the word immature has some connotation for you that is not found in the dictionary.

My comment was based on usage rather than on dictionary definition. You can use Google to look up the meaning of the word "usage". It is vanishingly rare to hear anyone over the mental age of about 14 whining about other people being "immature". (As an aside, this suggests that you may be in breach of the terms and conditions of this website, which you consented to when you registered. And God is not an enormous fan of liars.)

But anyways, I really don't care what anyone calls me

Of course you don't, dear. That's why your post didn't mention it.

[Xanax]

Re: Intro

I didn't read any further than that. Where, precisely, did you make "valid points" - and about what exactly? Your posts seem to have been a mere series of unsubstantiated assertions.

(Having read a little further, top tip dear: only very young teenagers call other people "immature". So it's a little bit of a giveaway.)

If you read through the page, you would see that it was everyone else who was behaving inappropriate by calling me names like b**ch, scum, man thong panty queersexuals ect. I apologize if the word immature has some connotation for you that is not found in the dictionary. But I would stick with that word, because that is how everyone here behaves if someone has a different belief than them. But anyways, I really don't care what anyone calls me, I just hope that they don't treat other people the way I have been treated.


If I have disrespected anyone on here, please let me know! Because I don't want to be that kind of person.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Intro

Just because I made valid points and it goes against your beliefs.....

I didn't read any further than that. Where, precisely, did you make "valid points" - and about what exactly? Your posts seem to have been a mere series of unsubstantiated assertions.

(Having read a little further, top tip dear: only very young teenagers call other people "immature". So it's a little bit of a giveaway.)