Hello

[Jackman]

My name is Jack. I do not see how Christians or atheists could the answer to the origin of matter. Either way at some point in time, something was created from nothing.

Christians insist that God did this. Where did God come from?

Atheists insist that the big bang did this. Where did all of the crunched up atoms come from to cause this big bang?

and where did either God or the big ball of pre-bang atoms exist if there was nothing? What does nothing consist of? (If the answer is "space", then what was before space and what created it?)


The human race is blind and too full of ego to face it, I sometimes think.

Sometimes I think that our brains are too used to seeing that everything has a beginning and an end, because life begins with birth and ends with death. Maybe the universe does not operate on the same terms as life. Maybe our brains, being relatively small parts of the universe, do not have sense enough to grasp its conception, the same way that atoms in our body simply do not have the power to realize that they make up part of our body. They have no idea we exist yet they are a part of us.

It seems that our egos force us to rest on premature conclusions for a sense of conclusiveness, but we are still without a clue.

I am open to the idea which presents the strongest argument, and will study rigorously whichever argument makes itself suspicious of the answer.

If being saved is the answer, consider me you before you were saved. But take into consideration the very serious question I asked on the Christian side of the argument: Where did God come from?

Please help,

Jack.

[Jackman]

Re: Hello

My name is Jack. I do not see how Christians or atheists could the answer to the origin of matter. Either way at some point in time, something was created from nothing.

Christians insist that God did this. Where did God come from?

Atheists insist that the big bang did this. Where did all of the crunched up atoms come from to cause this big bang?

and where did either God or the big ball of pre-bang atoms exist if there was nothing? What does nothing consist of? (If the answer is "space", then what was before space and what created it?)


The human race is blind and too full of ego to face it, I sometimes think.

Sometimes I think that our brains are too used to seeing that everything has a beginning and an end, because life begins with birth and ends with death. Maybe the universe does not operate on the same terms as life. Maybe our brains, being relatively small parts of the universe, do not have sense enough to grasp its conception, the same way that atoms in our body simply do not have the power to realize that they make up part of our body. They have no idea we exist yet they are a part of us.

It seems that our egos force us to rest on premature conclusions for a sense of conclusiveness, but we are still without a clue.

I am open to the idea which presents the strongest argument, and will study rigorously whichever argument makes itself suspicious of the answer.

If being saved is the answer, consider me you before you were saved. But take into consideration the very serious question I asked on the Christian side of the argument: Where did God come from?

Please help,

Jack.

I do not see how Christians or atheists could know the answer to the origin of matter*
I must point out that I left out the word "know", and do not mean to risk the clarity of my questions or the standards of this board.

[GOD=life]

Re: Hello

If you studied the Christian position a bit better or searched this forum, you would have found an answer already.

Basically, your argument is the infinite-stack-of-creators paradox.

[Jackman]

Re: Hello

Could you answer it for me, or point me in the right direction? I am seeking to be saved, and want nothing more than to be brothers of the Truth with you.

[GOD=life]

Re: Hello

What is your favorite Bible verse and why?

[Jacob the Angry Liar]

Re: Hello

Could you answer it for me, or point me in the right direction? I am seeking to be saved, and want nothing more than to be brothers of the Truth with you.

http://www.christianbook.com/the-kin...1|177100|57401

[Jackman]

Re: Hello

Exodus 20:16
"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor."

I do believe that if this verse were followed by all people that the world would be be at one, and the demands of Christianity would be followed quite naturally.

[Jacob the Angry Liar]

Re: Hello

Exodus 20:16
"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor."

I do believe that if this verse were followed by all people that the world would be be at one, and the demands of Christianity would be followed quite naturally.

Funny, that's not what my copy of the Holy Bible says.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

[Jackman]

Re: Hello

I must warn that I have been called on by my brother to help with a moving job, and will not be able to respond to this thread for several hours. I appreciate all responses that I receive and will address them upon my return.

I own a copy of the King James Bible, thank you though.

[Jackman]

Re: Hello

Well you have me there, I was indeed paraphrasing, as your God did not bless me with much of a long-term memory bank.


I abide by my Bible for all of its moral assertions, but refuse to settle on the solution to the stack-of-creators dilemma until it is clear to me.

Now, alas! I am late. Thank you for your time and I will return.

[GOD=life]

Re: Hello

I abide by my Bible for all of its moral assertions, but refuse to settle on the solution to the stack-of-creators dilemma until it is clear to me.

Then that is something for you to take of with God, not with us.

We can merely point at the train that's heading your way, we cannot save you from it.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Hello

Jack, you pose a good question. The best I have is that God has always been here. He, like energy, is neither created or destroyed, only transformed. I also think there are some things the human mind will never understand as we do not have Gods limitless mental powers of understanding. The mere concept of infinity is boggling and no one can truly say they can grasp it. They may think they know what it is but when pressed, no one really does. You know when infinity starts, no one (no mere man or pack O' lies scientist) can ever know where it ends, no one except God. Think about it.

[Aristotle]

Re: Hello

Jack, you pose a good question. The best I have is that God has always been here. He, like energy, is neither created or destroyed, only transformed. I also think there are some things the human mind will never understand as we do not have Gods limitless mental powers of understanding. The mere concept of infinity is boggling and no one can truly say they can grasp it. They may think they know what it is but when pressed, no one really does. You know when infinity starts, no one (no mere man or pack O' lies scientist) can ever know where it ends, no one except God. Think about it.

Yes, the definition of GOD is that he has always existed so HE is the First Cause. There is no infinite chain of causality.

[Noah Dint]

Re: Hello

Well you have me there, I was indeed paraphrasing, as your God did not bless me with much of a long-term memory bank. Now, alas! I am late. Thank you for your time and I will return.

Welcome back Jack Man. May I call you Mr. Man? I would assume you have returned now and are reading all of our congregation's replies to your wonderful posts.

As you can see above, you wrote that OUR God did not bless you much (for which I truly am sorry - but that's the luck of the draw sometimes) and I was wondering who YOUR God is? Whom or what do you worship?

Thank you for your response. As you have, I will return later for the reply.

-ND

[James Hutchins]

Re: Hello

Jack, your comment "stack-of-creators dilemma " troubles me. How could there possibly be more than one God? Would not there of been a lot of arguing about the Creation of Man? Would not the KJV1611 Bible be filled with footnotes and have a massive appendix ensuring the proper credit was given?
No, none of this is true. There can only be one God.

Deuteronomy 31:16
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Joshua 24:16
And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

Joshua 24:20
If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

Judges 10:13
Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.

1 Samuel 8:8
According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

2 Kings 22:17
Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.

2 Chronicles 7:19
But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;

You will note, God does speak of other Gods, but these are lesser, demi -Gods. Just like in politics, you can have many politicians. Many senators but you can have only one President.