[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Hi guys.

synchronized swimming

SOLO SYNCHRONIZED SWIMMING

(still alive and well - even if it's no longer an Olympic event)

HERE'S A FEW MORE

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Hi guys.

Let's use sports as an analogy (even though it has nothing to with sodomy)...

I see what you did there!

My first thought was, "Well, soccer is all about sodomy." But then i saw what you did. Soccer isn't really a sport, is it? You are very subtle and wise, Brother!

[Lost Sheep McUinnean]

Re: Hi guys.

I think this is really sad. I feel sorry for you.

Sad? For us? WHY?

Feel sad for this man if you wish. I used to.

I don't any more though. You see, YOU are that man, just as I was. Let's use sports as an analogy (even though it has nothing to with sodomy), but the camparison is useful nonetheless. What THIS man in the film has to realise is that he should change sport. He should play baseball as it's the only true sport.

Think along those lines, otherwise God will be making you get black spiritual eyes and broken soul teeth from the hurdles of life forever and then send you down below to the synchronized swimming event that is HELL.

Think about it.
Turn to God.
You don't want to be competing in the Spacial Olympics forever now, do you?


YIC, McUinnean of that Ilk.

[Aussie Agnostic]

Re: Hi guys.

I think this is really sad. I feel sorry for you.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Hi guys.

I'm sorry?

Apology accepted. Now go pray to Jesus to beg for forgiveness for your many many sins.

[Aussie Agnostic]

Re: Hi guys.

I'm sorry? I started this thread?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Hi guys.

I am not very familiar with the Bible, but after a bit of googling is it not just listing the laws that God says you must obey? They all seem pretty reasonable and nothing suggests a reason as to why you should be prejudiced against others. I get the impression that God discourages prejudice even?

Why are you bringing this up in someone else's introduction thread?

Please make a thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

And if you're here to flame us, better take a look at THIS before making an even bigger ass out of yourself.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Hi guys.

And tell me, if the law isn't changed, then why did Jesus not allow the mob to stone the adulterous woman in the New Testament? It is written in law, isn't it?

Adding to our Brother's wonderful response:

Jesus tells he "go and sin no more." In other words, she BROKE THE LAW OF GOD. She sinned when she comitted adultery. Sinning is the violation of God's laws. Jesus would not tell her to sin no more if the law had changed. Unless you are saying that somehow the description of the crimes in the law stayed the same but only the punishments in the law changed? Where does it say that in the Bible? The LAW encompasses both the definition of the crimes as well as the punishments. As cited above, Jesus tells us clearly that not a "tiddle or jot" of the law has changed.

How much clearer can Jesus make it?

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hi guys.

And tell me, if the law isn't changed, then why did Jesus not allow the mob to stone the adulterous woman in the New Testament? It is written in law, isn't it? It is because Jesus gives us grace and mercy, he wants us to repent not to punish us - his love offers us the chance to be forgiven and, in the case of the woman, who under the old law would have died for her sin, she found everlasting life through Jesus.

Let's examine that story, shall we? Let's see just what the Bible says, and what it DOES NOT SAY.

As it is written in John 8:

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

What is the point of this story?

Jesus knew that the people bringing the woman forward, judging her against God's COMMANDMENTS, were not themselves following all of God's COMMANDMENTS.

Therefore, their judgment was hypocritical. As He quite plainly stated in Matthew 7:1-5, humans should not judge hypocritically:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Jesus used this woman as an example, not to the woman, but to the hypocrites who brought her to Him and who wished to execute her for her sins, while wallowing in their own. They were not righteous men, and their own consciences convicted them of this fact.

Now, as to your false assertions and interpretations:

Where does the Bible say she "found everlasting life"? There is no Biblical evidence for this assertion whatsoever. You are interpreting and extrapolating. You believe something should be so, and have decided that it is.

What did Jesus say to her? "Now that you're not going to be stoned to death, you get to go to Heaven, no matter what you do with the rest of your life"?

NO!

He ordered her to "Go, and SIN NO MORE."

Not "only commit little sins", or "only sin occasionally". "SIN NO MORE". That means NEVER AGAIN.

Jesus' expectation is not that we will "try to be good". We are expected to be free of sin; in fact, as it is written in 1 John, those who are Saved are unable to sin. How indeed could one look upon the immeasurable temporary sacrifice Jesus made, and then choose to spit in His face by acting against His 600+ Commandments?

1 John 3:4-9

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

How is sin defined, Devon? Sin is transgression of the Law, isn't that what it says, in plain language?

Are you going to "interpret" that to mean something else, Devon?

Whoever is born of God CANNOT SIN. Isn't that what it says, Devon? How would you "interpret" that?

Do YOU sin, Devon? If you sin, are you born of God? Do you know Jesus, if you sin? What does the Bible tell you?

You will likely respond with some nonsense about "your heart" telling you something. What you "feel". Jews "feel" that "their hearts" have told them different things. So do Muslims, and Buddhists, and even Satanists. (I expect atheists would simply say that their hearts pump blood, but they do still discuss their feelings and what they "think" to be true.)

Tell me, if your heart tells you that you are right and therefore the Bible is wrong, at the same time that the hearts of Jews and Muslims and Buddhists tell them that they are right and the Bible is wrong, what should you listen to? The Bible, or your wholly subjective, easily manipulated-by-Satan "feelings"?

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Hi guys.

If you don't know the law how are you supposed to know which commandments you have broken? And if you don't know what part of the law you have transgressed how are you supposed to know what sins to repent? If you are repentant and forgiven for some of your sins but not of others than you are still guilty of breaking the enitre law in the eyes of God:

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

And then you will be send to Hell in accordance with Revelation 21:8

As uaual, Brother Johannes nails it. That should be the end of that, I think.

[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Re: Hi guys.

As far as I know, the only way to heaven or salvation is through the Son (Jesus), it doesn't matter if you know your Bible backwards, so long as you accept him into your life. While I was at my aunt's Church in Berlin, I met a woman who was originally from Pakistan, who had lived a horrific life of abuse and rape, who had been saved. I could feel the spirit in her - her very eyes were lit with the blessings of God, and she was happy, despite all her problems and her history. However, she had never read the Bible, she did not know the laws - all she knew was the love of Jesus and his forgiveness. Are you going to say that she is not saved until she knows every word in the Bible? If so, hen I think you should read your NT with open eyes.

If you don't know the law how are you supposed to know which commandments you have broken? And if you don't know what part of the law you have transgressed how are you supposed to know what sins to repent? If you are repentant and forgiven for some of your sins but not of others than you are still guilty of breaking the enitre law in the eyes of God:

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

And then you will be send to Hell in accordance with Revelation 21:8

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Hi guys.

Infraction for being a 'dictionary worshipper' . . . . lololololol. If you people could use one accurately yourselves instead of accusing people of being something they're not, I would have had no need to correct your false definition.

And yet when I corrected you (And an ATHEIST even AGREED with me) in this thread, you ran away and never responded. The truth will out and you have been exposed as the lie-and-run atheist that you are. As soon as you are shown the error in your ways, you run away.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Hi guys.

As far as I know, the only way to heaven or salvation is through the Son (Jesus), it doesn't matter if you know your Bible backwards, so long as you accept him into your life. While I was at my aunt's Church in Berlin, I met a woman who was originally from Pakistan, who had lived a horrific life of abuse and rape, who had been saved. I could feel the spirit in her - her very eyes were lit with the blessings of God, and she was happy, despite all her problems and her history. However, she had never read the Bible, she did not know the laws - all she knew was the love of Jesus and his forgiveness. Are you going to say that she is not saved until she knows every word in the Bible? If so, hen I think you should read your NT with open eyes.

Do you know how many Pakistanis I get bugging me on almost a daily basis? Did you know for a mere $20,000 you can get them to put on a revival for you complete with an audience ready to flop around and foam at the mouth for you to tape and bring home to "show" people how well your ministry over there is working? They will even gladly get on camera and tell horror stories about their persecution.

They will even tell you straight up how great of a money maker this is for your ministry. You go back to Europe or the states with your tape and go from church to church. You raise about $100,000 for your next "mission". You pocket the difference and go back to put on another $20,000 revival.

Do that two or three times a year and you can live quite comfortably. It has become quite the industry for them.

2 Corinthians 3 speaks of the New Covenant as something we should be living now, through Jesus, old laws that conflict with the New Testament, being cast aside. They did not work for the children of Israel, they do not work for us - that is why Jesus came to make the New Testament/covenant.

The law is no longer written on paper or, but in the spirit of Jesus and written on our hearts. Love can be known by all people, as can grace and forgiveness. I am not saying the old laws should not be read and understood, I am simply saying, they should not dictate our lives - we should be led by God himself who is within us.

Then why does James overrule Paul on this in Acts 15 while quoting a string of Old Testament scripture?

Paul 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


James
13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: (Jer 12:15)
17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. (Amos 9:12 Deut 28:10; Is 63:19; Jer 14:9; Dan 9:19)
18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Is 45:21


19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

James is saying to preach the Old Testament. Paul disagrees with him.

[Devon~]

Re: Hi guys.

Infraction for being a 'dictionary worshipper' . . . . lololololol. If you people could use one accurately yourselves instead of accusing people of being something they're not, I would have had no need to correct your false definition. All I did was look at an online dictionary and explain its meaning to you. Oh no, but I guess I worship dictionaries instead of the Bible because I know how to use one properly? You people have serious failures in logic.

As far as I know, the only way to heaven or salvation is through the Son (Jesus), it doesn't matter if you know your Bible backwards, so long as you accept him into your life. While I was at my aunt's Church in Berlin, I met a woman who was originally from Pakistan, who had lived a horrific life of abuse and rape, who had been saved. I could feel the spirit in her - her very eyes were lit with the blessings of God, and she was happy, despite all her problems and her history. However, she had never read the Bible, she did not know the laws - all she knew was the love of Jesus and his forgiveness. Are you going to say that she is not saved until she knows every word in the Bible? If so, hen I think you should read your NT with open eyes.

2 Corinthians 3 speaks of the New Covenant as something we should be living now, through Jesus, old laws that conflict with the New Testament, being cast aside. They did not work for the children of Israel, they do not work for us - that is why Jesus came to make the New Testament/covenant.

Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:[Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

The law is no longer written on paper or, but in the spirit of Jesus and written on our hearts. Love can be known by all people, as can grace and forgiveness. I am not saying the old laws should not be read and understood, I am simply saying, they should not dictate our lives - we should be led by God himself who is within us.

I'll ask again - what about people who do not have access to your version of the Bible? What about those people in countries where Bibles are illegal, some parts of China for example, where the people can only have a few pages to read at a time? What about the Bible in other languages? Are the people who read them going to hell just because it is not the King James? God can reach anyone, whoever they are.

I know missionaries in countries and places where the Bible is not even translated into their language, where that language may not even have a written form, and those missionaries are witnessing the love of God, his forgiveness, and God is reaching those people, they are being saved. Yet it might be decades, or never, before they receive a Bible they can read. That does not meant they cannot be saved. God is all-powerful, he speaks all languages, his love and grace does not need to be translated.

And what about the King James as a translation - you take it word for word, yet it is not God's original word, the originals were written in Greek and Hebrew . . . where do they come in to this? Many of you are Biblical students, I'm sure you understand how translations can never be 100% accurate, especially from such complex languages.

The Word in the Bible cannot be understood unless you have fellowship with Jesus, you can never make yourselves perfect or please God by the terrible things you do to others through your blinkered readings. Jesus has already saved us, all you need to do is accept him. Sins will be forgiven, you do not need to stone or physically punish other people for their sins as it say in the Old Testament, because Jesus took the punishment, 'it is done'. Do you not understand that? Do you not understand what Jesus did for you, how it changed everything that was before? He is the ONLY way to God. His life is an example of how we should live our lives.

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

^ How the Old Testament was not working, how people still sinned and turned away, how only people who knew the laws could be saved (making salvation exclusive to Jews), how the Glory of the OT faded in Moses' face where once it shone brightly. How people looking at the OT now cannot look on it in understanding without Christ. How Jesus' sacrifice is a more glorious salvation as it will never end, how, all men can come to God through the NT, how it's glory will last forever.

I was not interpreting anything, so don't accuse me of doing so - you can read everything I have said clearly above in that quote in more detail.

And tell me, if the law isn't changed, then why did Jesus not allow the mob to stone the adulterous woman in the New Testament? It is written in law, isn't it? It is because Jesus gives us grace and mercy, he wants us to repent not to punish us - his love offers us the chance to be forgiven and, in the case of the woman, who under the old law would have died for her sin, she found everlasting life through Jesus.

What would you have done to the adulterous woman?

You need to look at both the OT and the NT in context, to understand what separates them, how they are different, how Jesus' sacrifice changed everything that was before.

I am not saying we shouldn't read the Old Testament, only that we should read it in the Spirit of God, and understand it. Yes, you do need to understand the Bible. How are you to learn anything from God's teachings if you look on it in ignorance? You may know the words well, you may be able to quote anyone to death, but ultimately, you should be led by God in your hearts - what does he say? He is a living God, you can ask him, and he will reply.

[Aussie Agnostic]

Re: Hi guys.

Is that not the story of creation? Before that there was nothingness? So where did God come from? Why did he choose to create the universe at that particular time?