[BelieverInGod]

Re: Salutations!

Ah, nonono. You are twisting my words. In the event of a constellation spelling out such messages before my eyes, there is still a logical explanation: someone slipped me drugs. If that possibility is ruled out, then the only logical conclusion would have to be that a higher power existed.

As I demonstrated with the example you did not respond to in the latter half of my retort, it is only when there are no logical explanations that the possibility of a higher power arises.

Hope that cleared things up.

Yeah, but I see the leaps you people go through to deny God.

You want proof of God? Step out of your basement, there's a big beautiful world out there that God created for us. But instead of thanking him, you atheists believe that nothing existed, then one day nothing exploded and created everything, then a bunch of dust got together and ignited into a sun (well lots of dust has gotten together in billions of places and ignited, guess I better watch those dust bunnies in the garage) then a bunch more dust decided to get together to form planets that want to party with the sun. Then this one planet fluked out and got to be just the right distance from the sun where it's not too hot and not too cold, then some of the dust decided to become life, that "amino acid" then decided to grow some friends and create a cell. Then that lonely cell got bored and decided to divide and create some friends. Then a bunch of those friends decided to stick together to create multi-cellular life (still trying to figure out why there's single celled, and then million celled life but no 5 or 10 celled life around). The multi-cellular life then decided to evolve into billions of different species that eventually topped out with man.

But you're right, believing that a Supreme Being (God) created the world and everything in it is absolutely ridiculous.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Salutations!

…example is the rainbow being a sign of a covenant with God, whereas now we have another rational, testable explanation: The light is first refracted entering the surface of the raindrop, reflected off the back of the drop, and again refracted as it leaves the drop. The overall effect is that the incoming light is reflected back over a wide range of angles, producing the visible spectrum…

we already know that - you are missing the point that the conditions where such refraction becomes possible are the sign of the Covenant: our eyes see that as a rainbow, of course - but we are not all eye!


I Corinthians 12
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members, euery one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
©1611

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: Salutations!

Might I inquire as to what mountains of evidence you are speaking of? I've been unable to acquire any, myself. And thank you for recognising me.

Why, the sixty-six books of the Bible, of course.

And I'm afraid the argument of the Bible being sixty-six books is invalid, because the Bible is simply a collection of stories put together that all speak of the same thing. An anthology, per se, of the works regarding the Christian/Jewish god at the time.

So, by your logic, and books that deal with the same subject cannot be considered separately and should be lumped together when considered if they're worth reading or not? While I agree that would be a great way to consider human-written secular science books, to even suggest that the divinely inspired Bible should be treated that way is insane! God is the absolute authority on everything, so His Bible deserves to be treated as such.

And the Bible is definitely not consistant with itself, anyway - here's one regarding who the father of Joseph is, as an example.
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

I am shocked and appalled you would mock my faith by posting scripture in such a biased and inflammatory way! I thought we were trying to be civil here, Ms. Stella.

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26

ALL THINGS are possible with God, even a levirate marriage.

And authenticity is not decided by numbers. Why, if sixty-six people were to gather outside right now and say that the sky was purple, they'd still be wrong.

The problem with your statement here is that you're saying sixty-six people are claiming the sky is purple. There is a world of difference between people and the books of the Bible. If the sixty-six books in the Bible claimed the sky was purple, then it would obviously be the case. Why do you think God would lie about something like that?

The same goes for the Bible. A fair load of the things contained within are, quite frankly, completely nonsensical. For instance, that gem about curing leprosy by killing birds always sticks out to me.

Leviticus 14:1-9: Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "This shall be the law of the leper for the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought to the priest. And the priest shall go out of the camp, and the priest shall examine him; and indeed, if the leprosy is healed in the leper, then the priest shall command to take for him who is to be cleansed two living and clean birds, cedar wood, scarlet, and hyssop. And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water. As for the living bird, he shall take it, the cedar wood and the scarlet and the hyssop, and dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water. And he shall sprinkle it seven times on him who is to be cleansed from the leprosy, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose in the open field. He who is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean. After that he shall come into the camp, and shall stay outside his tent seven days. But on the seventh day he shall shave all the hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows; all his hair he shall shave off. He shall wash his clothes and wash his body in water, and he shall be clean."

See what I mean? This would be the equivalent of a gun instructor teaching me that I could shoot someone with a watermelon by inserting it into a pistol!

Honestly, if you can't see how the power of God and prayer can't cure leprosy, I don't know what to say to you.

Sorry, but I still see too many glaring fallacies to accept religion.

I assure you, there are absolutely NO fallacies in the Bible. The Bible even says so itself!

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and God is perfect, so therefore all scripture is perfect. Or do you think an omnipotent being wouldn't be able to create a perfect Bible?

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

Ah, now I know why atheists typically avoid debating creationists - it's completely useless. No matter what logic one employs, all anyone will say is "GOD DID IT, THE END." But people refuse to look at things philosophically, and therein lies the problem: a refusal of logic and reason, refusal of the very things that you claim differenciate us between man and beast.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Salutations!

Every living being has the potential to become enlightened, someone who has completely purified his or her mind of all faults and limitations and has brought all good qualities to perfection.

How do you know this? What is the evidence for your belief?

Delusions such as hatred, greed, and ignorance are not an intrinsic part of the mind.

Ignorance isn't a delusion. It's just not knowing stuff. It's intrinsic to the mind until you learn things. I think you'll find that all babies are born ignorant. If that isn't intrinsic, what is?

If we apply the appropriate methods they can be completely eliminated, and we shall experience the supreme happiness of full enlightenment.

What are the appropriate methods? How do you know this? What is the evidence for your belief?

Having attained enlightenment we shall have all the necessary qualities – universal love and compassion, omniscient wisdom and boundless spiritual power – to lead all living beings to the same exalted state.

Boundless spiritual power? Well, that sounds pretty cool. What can you do with your boundless spiritual powers? And all living beings? That sounds like quite a claim. What about rabbits? They're cute, but they are very very stupid. You might even say that ignorance is intrinsic to a rabbit's mind. Have you even seen a newt displaying omniscient wisdom? How did you know?

Many ancient religions, Christianity included, used deities to rationalise away natural phenomena. In the instance of Christianity, and example is the rainbow being a sign of a covenant with God, whereas now we have another rational, testable explanation: The light is first refracted entering the surface of the raindrop, reflected off the back of the drop, and again refracted as it leaves the drop. The overall effect is that the incoming light is reflected back over a wide range of angles, producing the visible spectrum of electromagnetic radiation.

Right. So are rainbows the result of good karma or bad karma, in your rational, mystical atheist worldview?

And authenticity is not decided by numbers. Why, if sixty-six people were to gather outside right now and say that the sky was purple, they'd still be wrong. The same goes for the Bible. A fair load of the things contained within are, quite frankly, completely nonsensical. For instance, that gem about curing leprosy by killing birds always sticks out to me.

Leviticus 14:1-9: Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "This shall be the law of the leper for the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought to the priest. And the priest shall go out of the camp, and the priest shall examine him; and indeed, if the leprosy is healed in the leper, then the priest shall command to take for him who is to be cleansed two living and clean birds, cedar wood, scarlet, and hyssop. And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water. As for the living bird, he shall take it, the cedar wood and the scarlet and the hyssop, and dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water. And he shall sprinkle it seven times on him who is to be cleansed from the leprosy, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose in the open field. He who is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean. After that he shall come into the camp, and shall stay outside his tent seven days. But on the seventh day he shall shave all the hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows; all his hair he shall shave off. He shall wash his clothes and wash his body in water, and he shall be clean."

Did the Israelites all die of leprosy? No, they did not. Therefore, the Bible is true.

Ah, nonono. You are twisting my words. In the event of a constellation spelling out such messages before my eyes, there is still a logical explanation: someone slipped me drugs. If that possibility is ruled out, then the only logical conclusion would have to be that a higher power existed.

As I demonstrated with the example you did not respond to in the latter half of my retort, it is only when there are no logical explanations that the possibility of a higher power arises.

Hope that cleared things up.

Right. So you believe in karma, omniscient wisdom and boundless spiritual powers because they're logical things to believe in, then. That'll be why all secular scientists accept that they exist.

[Imam Rashik]

Re: Salutations!

I will give you some verses from The Holy Quran to help you find Allah(pbuh)


SURA 2.
128. Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and [raise] from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us [mercifully], surely Thou art the Oft-returning [to mercy], the Merciful.
129. Our Lord! and raise up in them a Messenger from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.
130. And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
131. When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.
132. And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and [so did] Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you [this] faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims.
133. Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your god and the god of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one Allah only, and to Him do we submit.
134. This is a people that have passed away; they shall have what they earned and you shall have what you earn, and you shall not be called upon to answer for what they did.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Salutations!

I know that that is the way to any truth, no matter how depressing or nihilistic it may be.

How do you know that? Did some fat chink tell you? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Salutations!

Interesting to see that, despite running all round our boards spouting her atheist nonsense where it's not welcome, she's too scared to come back to her own introduction thread to defend her incoherent lies here.