[Alvin Moss]

Re: Hello Everyone

How can you call us both racist and good people?

We are not racist, sir.

The rules are all in the Old Testament and yes, it is also the Torah, more or less, used by the Jews; them that handed Jesus over to the Romans. Are we to abandon God's word because some Jews like what He said?

We are Christians, Ken, bid by the Lord God to follow His rules and do His bidding. It's all in the Good Book.

Also, Ken, please show our Pastor the proper respect of using his title. "Mr. Ezekiel" just reeks of disrespect.

I think you may be some kind of Scientologist.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hello Everyone

...Christianity is certainly not about who does and doesn't go to heaven...

Dwuh?

...It's about uniting with one another in this world of hardships and maybe, just maybe, getting along for once...

Have you confused Christianity for the Church of Hello Kitty?

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Three guesses who's speaking there, and your first two don't count.

[Marko Loimaan-Aho]

Re: Hello Everyone

Excuse me for finding you racist, good people. However, I do question some of the claims you are making with the Old Testament. Of course, the Old Testament is just as a part of the Bible as any other, however Jesus is the fulfillment of these older books. He is giving us new orders and making the new and everlasting covenant with us. Such as in John 13:34. He proves he is changing the traditional ways. John 8:1-11. He is asking us to realize our own faults and not go around condemning others. To remove the log in our eye before the splinter in our neighbor's.

It seems to me that you all are attempting to live by the old laws on the Old Testament. You are attempting to use what Jews call the Torah to justify and base your actions. Perhaps Judaism would be a better alternative for you because Christianity is certainly not about who does and doesn't go to heaven. It's about uniting with one another in this world of hardships and maybe, just maybe, getting along for once.

And Mr. Ezekiel, I do not believe that a simple grammar error constitutes me lying, so not I am not.

You are trying to say that because Jesus Christ gave new orders, the old ones are not functional anymore. That is not true. It is all said in the BIBLE

Matt 5:17-18

John 13:34 - Yes we have to love each other - and yes, we do: for example we are here trying once again to explain very friendly how You can avoid your destiny in

John 8:1-11 tells us how sinful Joos were: there was not one person who was able to do as THE LORD says in his law. Not any. Joos were all full of sin and they were not able to obey God. That is also one reason for the crime Joos made later - killing the Christ.

[Ken J. Roberts]

Re: Hello Everyone

...them that handed Jesus over to the Romans...

I suppose that "finding you racist" was a poor choice of words. The more accurate statement would be "calling you racist". I simply meant finding you at a past time.

And, Mr. Moss, I should hope you are not blaming the Jews of today even for the crucifixion of our Lord.

"Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues.

True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone."

This is directly from the the Church document Nostra Aetate meaning "in our time." It is a wonderful and loving document and I highly suggest reading it if you get the chance.

And I apologize, Pastor Ezekiel.


I'm afraid I am not familiar with the "church of hello kitty." But I still would point out numerous passages that point to God's love for all of humanity and his want for their peace.

John 3:16
Matthew 11:28-30
John 14:27
John 16:33
Luke 7:5
1 Corinthians 14:33
Isaiah 9:6
Romans 12:18

Additionally, you are taking the passage out of context. Matthew 10:34 refers not to an actual sword, but a tool with which Christians could "fight" through these not yet converted people. He is saying that He, Jesus, knows that there will be great unrest and grievance at his words and this will not make the world peaceful, but he gives us the sword of Christianity to fight for Him. We are to go out and proclaim the gospel and say as in John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you..."

Once again, you take the second passage out of context. It may be helpful for you to read the entire parable which is in Luke 19:11-27. We all know that Jesus spoke in parables often, and when he did this he spoke with metaphors. Besides, he tells these people who are not faithful to him "By your own words I will judge you" Luke 19:22. He is judging them by human standards, not by Godly ones.

[Marko Loimaan-Aho]

Re: Hello Everyone

This is directly from the the Church document Nostra Aetate meaning "in our time." It is a wonderful and loving document and I highly suggest reading it if you get the chance.

Declaration on the Relation of the Church with Non-Christian Religions?
Catlick cult makes that?

They are not Christians.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hello Everyone

...We are to go out and proclaim the gospel and say as in John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you..."

Key word is bolded. He could have said, "I leave my peace to everyone", but...

He didn't.

Think about why.

...We all know that Jesus spoke in parables often, and when he did this he spoke with metaphors...

And He clearly tells us when He's relating a parable.

So when He doesn't tell us something is just a parable, YOU know that it is just a parable?

Why does the Holy Spirit fill you with such wisdom and grace, to be able to interpret God's word so clearly, while denying it to everyone else?

[Ken J. Roberts]

Re: Hello Everyone

First, you dismiss all of the other parts of my post, and secondly the document is in "relation to non-Christian religions" by default making them Christian.

I'm very sorry that you did not understand your fundamental history classes, sir. If you had paid attention, you would know that until about the year 1500, when the priest Martin Luther decided to address some of the issues that the church was having, the Holy Roman Catholic Church was Christianity, and still is. It is the true church and has been for about 2000 years. This Protestantism has been around for only about 500, some denominations even less. The church that Jesus founded was the Catholic Church. He said, you are the rock upon which I will found my church. This church is the Catholic Church. Who are you to doubt what Christ Himself founded?

Additionally, I doubt you would disagree with what the Church believes, which is summed up in the Nicene Creed:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

[Ken J. Roberts]

Re: Hello Everyone

Jesus said to "YOU" because he was speaking directly to a person. I wouldn't address one person as "everyone" because at that time I was not speaking to everyone. He was relaying this to a single person, but that does not limit that it applies to only him.

Secondly, you ask why am I endowed with such wisdom? Well, I'm not. But if you look in the bible, that section is called "The Parable of the Ten Minas". So, it's not I alone that calls it a parable.

[Ken J. Roberts]

Re: Hello Everyone

If you would please, look at this bible verse Luke 19:11 where it specifically says he spoke a parable.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hello Everyone

First, you dismiss all of the other parts of my post, and secondly the document is in "relation to non-Christian religions" by default making them Christian...

Hardly. Just claiming that you're a Christian is insufficient:

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

...I'm very sorry that you did not understand your fundamental history classes, sir. If you had paid attention, you would know that until about the year 1500, when the priest Martin Luther decided to address some of the issues that the church was having, the Holy Roman Catholic Church was Christianity, and still is...

If you want to claim to be a history authority, you really shouldn't deny the existence of, let's see, ALL the Eastern Orthodox churches (who split with Rome several hundred years prior to Luther, google "Great Schism" for more info), and the Ethiopians (who never acknowledged Rome), and yeah, there was this other guy, what was his name... oh yeah, John the BAPTIST. Splain that.

...This Protestantism has been around for only about 500, some denominations even less...

And until you show that the Baptists sprang from the Protestant Reformation, your point is irrelevant.

...The church that Jesus founded was the Catholic Church. He said, you are the rock upon which I will found my church...

Proof that Catholics don't appreciate Jesus' sense of humour.

In calling Peter a "rock", He was making a pun on Peter's name (and implying he was a bit thick, as He does several other places in the Gospels).

...Additionally, I doubt you would disagree with what the Church believes, which is summed up in the Nicene Creed:...

Of course they disagree with that, because NEWS FLASH: they aren't Catholics.

[Idiocy Incarnate]

Re: Hello Everyone

Funny thing about the "rock build church upon" thing....

Quite the little stand-alone aberration, that statement...

'Cause...

Jesus never talked about building a church.

[Ken J. Roberts]

Re: Hello Everyone

If you want to claim to be a history authority, you really shouldn't deny the existence of, let's see, ALL the Eastern Orthodox churches (who split with Rome several hundred years prior to Luther, google "Great Schism" for more info), and the Ethiopians (who never acknowledged Rome)

Yes, that's correct. The Eastern Orthodox split in about 1054. However, the issue was simply a translation mismatch and this ended up breaking the Church until today. As of today, the Roman Church and the Eastern Church consider themselves very close and almost in complete communion with one another. In fact, they hope to resolve these issues and reunite once again, as Jesus said "so that they may be one". And if you read more about the Ethiopian church, they were actually under the Eastern half, or the Orthodox, church.

and yeah, there was this other guy, what was his name... oh yeah, John the BAPTIST. Splain that.

Alright, I will. John the Baptist was Jesus' relative and the one who would pave the way for Christ to come. He was called John the Baptist because he BAPTIZED people. Not related to the "baptists" of today.

And until you show that the Baptists sprang from the Protestant Reformation, your point is irrelevant.

During the reformation, the Church of England, the Anglican Church, also split from the Catholic Church. (just a side note "catholic" means "universal") Later down the road, just as Luther wanted to reform the Catholic Church, a group called the "puritans" wanted to reform, or purify, the Anglican Church. They received much hate from this and, so, went to America to escape persecution. Their ancestors and descendants formed into what many now call "baptist" churches. They are so named because they believe in baptizing people at an older age, as opposed to the Catholic tradition of infancy.

Proof that Catholics don't appreciate Jesus' sense of humour.

In calling Peter a "rock", He was making a pun on Peter's name (and implying he was a bit thick, as He does several other places in the Gospels).

There may be a pun there, but it does not change the fact that Jesus said he will found his church on Peter. Matthew 16:18-19

Of course they disagree with that, because NEWS FLASH: they aren't Catholics.

The main part they would disagree with is the ending part about the Church, however, the rest of it is very universal (or should I say catholic).

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Hello Everyone

Yes, that's correct. The Eastern Orthodox split in about 1054. However, the issue was simply a translation mismatch and this ended up breaking the Church until today. As of today, the Roman Church and the Eastern Church consider themselves very close and almost in complete communion with one another. In fact, they hope to resolve these issues and reunite once again, as Jesus said "so that they may be one". And if you read more about the Ethiopian church, they were actually under the Eastern half, or the Orthodox, church....The main part they would disagree with is the ending part about the Church, however, the rest of it is very universal (or should I say catholic).

The history of false Christianity does not become that of a single unified cat lick Church simply by dismissing the divisions if they do not fit your initial position. Even Mr. Didymus, while a vile atheist, can do balanced research as evidenced by his comments.

The East-west split had started centuries before 1054. They had extremely hostile differences regarding the nature of the Holy Ghost and the relatioship between God and Jesus. It may seem to you that it was petty nibbling over homoousios the word. However, for them it was the most central theology there was.

However, this was originally a sideshow and the real divisions were elsewhere. There was Arianism: denying the pre-existence of Christ. And this was a very powerful Church in its time and the original false Christian doctrine of the Germanic tribes. Similar false concepts of Trinity are still around, take Jehovians for instance. Take Newton.

There was Valentianinism: false Christianity very popular from Rome to Egypt considering Christ to be the offspring of Sophia. There were many more. The cat licks and the Grease orthodox won the battle and appeared to be the only Churches (with Syrians, Armenians and Ethiopinas) for centuries but that was only because of their success in violence, not being Christian.

True Christianity™ has always been a minority, but it has persisted through all this and the later mayhem. Soon we'll see rapture and the demiss of these others. It's going to be a wonderful day!



Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hello Everyone

...the issue was simply a translation mismatch and this ended up breaking the Church until today...

I never claimed anything about why the split happened, I was merely trying to cure your ignorance of Church history.

...As of today, the Roman Church and the Eastern Church consider themselves very close and almost in complete communion with one another. In fact, they hope to resolve these issues and reunite once again, as Jesus said "so that they may be one"...

And they will be one "as soon as those a**holes realize that we're right and perfect, they're wrong and hellbound" (to paraphrase every participant in a religious squabble with their neighbour, ever).

...And if you read more about the Ethiopian church, they were actually under the Eastern half, or the Orthodox, church...

What makes you think that I, who informed you of your error in assuming that the only opposition to Rome's rule started with Luther, and told you that the Ethiopians do not recognize Rome's authority, did not know that the Ethiopians DO NOT RECOGNIZE ROME'S AUTHORITY?

...Alright, I will. John the Baptist was Jesus' relative and the one who would pave the way for Christ to come. He was called John the Baptist because he BAPTIZED people. Not related to the "baptists" of today...

And why was he baptizing people? The Jews didn't do it, the Romans didn't do it, the Zoroastrians didn't do it...

...During the reformation, the Church of England, the Anglican Church, also split from the Catholic Church. (just a side note "catholic" means "universal") Later down the road, just as Luther wanted to reform the Catholic Church, a group called the "puritans" wanted to reform, or purify, the Anglican Church. They received much hate from this and, so, went to America to escape persecution. Their ancestors and descendants formed into what many now call "baptist" churches. They are so named because they believe in baptizing people at an older age, as opposed to the Catholic tradition of infancy...

Why do keep trying to tell me stuff I already know?

There have always been splinter groups in this mess called Christianity, and many Baptists consider themselves to be the inheritors of those groups, and thus to have never been under Rome's influence (if you were never part of a club, you don't have to leave to not be a member). When you can prove that that is not the case, we can talk.

...There may be a pun there, but it does not change the fact that Jesus said he will found his church on Peter. Matthew 16:18-19...

When He said "this rock", how do you know that He was referring to Peter, and not pointing at the ground. Oh, right, it's what your priest told you (never mind actually reading the Bible and thinking about WHAT IT SAYS instead of what you WANT it to say).

...The main part they would disagree with is the ending part about the Church, however, the rest of it is very universal (or should I say catholic).

I've never heard a Baptist recite the Creed, but that's because they read (and obey) the Bible.

Matthew 6:7 "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

Why not reflect on that the next time your priest assigns you some Hail Marys?

[Idiocy Incarnate]

Re: Hello Everyone

On a scale of 1 to 10...

10 being a big bunch of error...

Catholicism is a 10.

Post-Luther Protestants dialed that error all the way back to 9.8.

Maybe that far back.