[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Quantum God?

Government and medicine with be able to give them what they used to get from religion.

In communist countries they have no concept of the separation between State and government. One result is the State clubbing people over the head with atheistic, communistic, doctrinaire social engineering attempts doomed to failure. That is not what the State is for. That is the responsibility of government, and in democratic belief systems power concentrates from "the people" to the government.

The State is more top down.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Quantum God?

Dear Elizabeth:

This is what you do in order to split a quote correctly: at the beginning of each quoted portion of text add [quote ] (without space) and at the end add [/quote ] (without spaces). Look what happens with the same portion of text when I copy it again, removing the spaces before ]

(without space) and at the end add

Magic, isn't it? Then, you can revamp your quotes to look red, purple, or vomit - which is a real color name according to a scientific survey: http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/

However, quoting properly would make the lives of anyone responding to your posts so much easier if you have followed this rule.

Now, let me go back and forth between "reply to topic" and "topic review" in order to fish out all your non-quote quotes and copy and paste each one of them into my reply. Don't worry; I have graded enough undergraduate papers not to get angry at their pitiful form and judge them exclusively based on their content.

The polling methods are crap. Totally meaningless because people who generically believe in God, are considered to be Christians, when they aren't really Christians. True believers who actually believe Jesus is there personal savior is about 40%, including Catholics, and Mormons.

Do you have an actual statistics source to support your view, or do you think that everything you say qualifies as Absolute Truth which does not require any evidence to support it? Assuming you did not pull out the "40%" number out of your hat, what criteria were used to determine who - among a group of people identifying themselves as followers of a certain religion - was the actual believer and who wasn't?

Same with Christianity. There are about a jillion different kinds of Christians and all of them believe that to believe the other versions means going to Hell.

What part of "statistics like these lump minor groups into larger ones for readability" don't you understand?

Th point is, that 1/3 of the globe believes in the Christian God and believes the Holy Bible to be an accurate account of who God is and what He wants. Yes, different groups interpret the Bible in different ways. This particular congregation rejects the idea of interpreting the Bible and says it is to be understood literally. But in the end, ecumenical encounters could not be possible if various Christian denominations did not acknowledge the existence of a common denominator.

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/

Here, you think so much of Pew, they are the ones saying it. Worldwide it's higher as Europe has become extremely secular.

Oh, so you do use Pew statistics when it is convenient for you, but reject them as not scientific enough when it isn't convenient. Fantastic.

However, I did look at that link, and it seems to me that you do not understand the difference between a "non-believer" and "non-affiliated." The actual non-believers are only 6% according to that article. The remaining 14% are people who do believe in some kind of God, just reject the idea of organized religion. They are still believers, though: they like the idea of religion, just don't like the fact that organized religions have always been used to subjugate and exploit some groups of people by other groups of people. Personally, I'm not sure how can you separate the abstract idea of religion from it's gruesome history, but if 14% of society finds a way to do it, good for them.

Like I said, there are a lot of people who say they come from Christian familys, but they themselves only believe in some generic God. They don't attend Church and they don't follow church doctrine. Yet? These people are counted as being Christians. They're not.

The plural form of "family" is "families."

Back to the content: the idea that an objective scientist can determine whether a person is really a Christian or not is a very positivistic one. This approach in studies of people has been abandoned some half century ago or so. Today, we tend to ask a person in question how they see themselves, and if they self-label themselves as Christian, then the outsider doesn't really have the grounds to disagree.

This is the silliest argument I have ever heard. If one is compelled through threat of pain or death, that is not free will. If someone pulls a gun on you and robs you, you did not have free will just because you could have said no and let him kill you. Anything that threatens punishment for not complying, can not be free will. It's manipulated, not free will. Free means just that, there can be no consequence for not complying. The only consequence has to be from the action itself, not punishment for breaking the rules.

Please don't argue with me, argue with Aristotle, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, and other thinkers whom we owe our understanding of what free will is. Are you a hard determinist?

I do not ridicule what anyone believes. I wholly support every members absolute right to believe whatever they want and should not be shown disrespect for simply having religious beliefs. However, those beliefs do not include making others comply with that religion, especially people like me that don't believe it and have a right to believe what we want. Your right does not trump other peoples rights.

And how is this particular congregation doing it, exactly? Do you find Landover Baptists going door to door? Have you seen them on atheist websites shoveling their beliefs down other peoples throats?

I am all for you doing whatever you want with like minded people. What I disagree with is making your religion the law. That is against our Constitution. And I'll be damned if I will put up with anyone down talking the Constitution.

Fun fact: the creators of the Constitution decided that it should be changed every generation. It certainly did:

http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/how-us-constitution-has-evolved-over-time

I mean, in the original constitution women and black people were not allowed to vote, and black people were counted as 3/5 of a person.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/thirteenthamendment.html

Do you still think that Constitution is unchangeable?

I don't believe "academic sources" can predict the future. It's just something I believe.

Oh, so a belief without any supporting evidence should be more convincing than, um, actual evidence?

I believe humans will not only find life on other worlds, but will be able to create life at a whim from nothing more than amino acids.

No evidence.

Stem cells have now cured Type I Diabetes,

Nope, not yet.

http://www.diabetes.org/advocacy/advocacy-priorities/funding/stem-cell-research.html

looks like organ replacement, repairing severed spinal cords and generally making Humans live past the 120 years the Bible says is the limit.

No, it doesn't. Ever heard of Methuselah?

Basically the Bible will be proven to be fiction but mostly people won't have a need for your God anymore.

That's what some people have been saying since the Rennaissance, and it still didn't happen. There is a term for your belief, it's called "wishful thinking."

Government and medicine with be able to give them what they used to get from religion.

Communist countries tried this approach, and history shows that it didn't work so well. As a general rule, whatever government tries to force usually doesn't work.

No, that is not what I mean. What I mean is that humans have a need for religion. We have a place in our brains that makes people have what they believe are "spiritual" feelings. In other words once the God religions die,

Wishful thinking, again.

humans will still have a need for religion because of this part of the brain. I would never be for removing this from anyone unless it was cancerous or something. There is this professor that makes people have religious out of body experiences by placing a strong magnet near that part of the Brain. Check it out, it's on one of the "Through the Wormhole" episodes.

This sounds interesting, but I usually don't take television programs as reliable sources of information - except for the news and maybe weather forecast. If, however, you can provide me an academic source for any of these things you have mentioned, I will be more than happy to critically read it and decide whether author's arguments are logically sound and convincing.

[WashedWithHisBlood]

Re: Quantum God?

I would like to thank everyone ......

Lol save it we know you don't mean it

But having said that, my last three threads were deleted and this one is done, so until I can start threads again, I won't be able to get real answers from real Christians. That's a shame, but it make me non the less grateful. You all have helped me more than you could ever know and I will always be grateful for you.

Elizabeth

These people are real Christians. It's just a shame you and your liberal prejudice out look are unwilling accept it.

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Re: Quantum God?

I would like to thank everyone who participated in this thread. I'm sure you all believe you are all wonderful people and good for you. It's great to have high self esteem. I know it takes time out of your very busy day to answer my questions and I am grateful and wish all of you only the very best.

But having said that, my last three threads were deleted and this one is done, so until I can start threads again, I won't be able to get real answers from real Christians. That's a shame, but it make me non the less grateful. You all have helped me more than you could ever know and I will always be grateful for you.

Elizabeth

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Quantum God?

Pastor Zeke said it best. You are a whore of Satan. My heart weeps for you.

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Re: Quantum God?

You might have a place in your brain where you believe in all sorts of mumbo jumbo but we True Christians are free of this vile witchcraft-prone affliction by the power of the Holy Spirit and protected from your spells by the blood of Jesus.

Just because you wrap your vile powers in the language of Psycho-babble-ology doesn't make it less evil.

Here is a prayer you can say to yourself to free yourself from the demon that was injected into you with your polio vaccine.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the blood of Jesus, I bind any demons in me in heaven and on Earth, in Jesus’ name and with his power and authority. Joel 2:32 says, “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered.”

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to God and that he died on the cross for my sins and were resurrected so that I might be forgiven and saved.

It is not through my actions but through Jesus’ sacrifice as my personal savior and God’s grace that I have been saved. As a true Christian, I serve God completely to do His will.

I renounce all pride. I confess and repent of all my sins before You, Lord, and ask Your forgiveness. I also confess these sins that I have never confessed before:(list any secret sins here) .

I forgive everyone who has done wrong to me. I forget resentments and grudges against all people. I forgive these people that I have not forgiven before: (list people not forgiven before here) , since the Bible says that no one’s sins can be forgiven unless they forgive others.

I renounce all involvement I have ever had with the occult and false religion, including fortune tellers, witch craft, magic and sorcery. I will throw away all items I have associated with these things which God hates.

Please, I beg of you, renounce Satan this way and open yourself wide to receive Jesus within you.

I only did it because you asked me to. I thought I was helping a friend out.

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Quantum God?

Dolores said something to you that bears repeating:

Please learn how to quote properly, your quoting style gives me a headache.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Quantum God?

I have never endorsed Satan and if I can make you feel better I would love to. So, keeping that in mind, I hereby renounce Satan and all religions that believe in him.

That's exactly what I would expect a Satan worshipper to say.

The cleverest thing Satan does to you unbelievers is to convince you he doesn't exist.

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Re: Quantum God?

You might have a place in your brain where you believe in all sorts of mumbo jumbo but we True Christians are free of this vile witchcraft-prone affliction by the power of the Holy Spirit and protected from your spells by the blood of Jesus.

Just because you wrap your vile powers in the language of Psycho-babble-ology doesn't make it less evil.

Here is a prayer you can say to yourself to free yourself from the demon that was injected into you with your polio vaccine.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the blood of Jesus, I bind any demons in me in heaven and on Earth, in Jesus’ name and with his power and authority. Joel 2:32 says, “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered.”

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to God and that he died on the cross for my sins and were resurrected so that I might be forgiven and saved.

It is not through my actions but through Jesus’ sacrifice as my personal savior and God’s grace that I have been saved. As a true Christian, I serve God completely to do His will.

I renounce all pride. I confess and repent of all my sins before You, Lord, and ask Your forgiveness. I also confess these sins that I have never confessed before:(list any secret sins here) .

I forgive everyone who has done wrong to me. I forget resentments and grudges against all people. I forgive these people that I have not forgiven before: (list people not forgiven before here) , since the Bible says that no one’s sins can be forgiven unless they forgive others.

I renounce all involvement I have ever had with the occult and false religion, including fortune tellers, witch craft, magic and sorcery. I will throw away all items I have associated with these things which God hates.

Please, I beg of you, renounce Satan this way and open yourself wide to receive Jesus within you.

I have never endorsed Satan and if I can make you feel better I would love to. So, keeping that in mind, I hereby renounce Satan and all religions that believe in him.

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Re: Quantum God?

If you're trying to say that sins are violations of God's laws, I agree.

I thought everyone knew that. Breaking God's laws are sins. Breaking God's laws are not the same as breaking the laws of the Government although long long ago, it used to be that way. That is why we formed our Constitution, so other people could not tell us what to believe.


Absolutely not. I'm glad you agree with us that the Catholic church is not a legitimate church.

With you all the way on this one. Of course I don't consider any Church to be "legitimate". And as far as using the Church to sexually abuse it's members is common to almost every church or religion out there. If you want me to name all the Protestant Churches where the leaders or pastors have been engaged in having sex with minor children because "God wanted them to", I will be happy to do that, but it seems like that would be pretty embarassing since so many of them are Babtist.

Not only would God let that happen, God did let that happen. Those people chose to join a false church that preached a false doctrine, and, tragically, they suffered the inevitable consequences of their bad decision. It will be no different for the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Latter Day Saints, and Methodists.

See? That just makes it that much more preposterous. Let's see, God created all these people he knew would go to Hell, because he made them, he made Hell, and he made sure that some people, in fact most people, are going to Hell. Yet you refer to him as a Kind and Loving God? If you are right, and believe me, I don't think you are, but if you right and I go to Hell. That would mean God created me just to punish me knowing I was not going to comply. The Book of Life means God knows already who is going and who isn't. So my fate as well as everyone elses, is already been determined. Which also can not be free will.


Given that you are currently an out-of-control whore, I fail to see how it would be a bad thing if you allowed God to use Christianity to get you under control. Hopefully that will happen before you get hepatitis or AIDS from some customer who paid you ten dollars extra to let him do it without a condom.

Well, I don't feel out of control. I feel very much in control and as for being a Whore, I can only say I have never charged anyone for sex, nor have I ever had a "one night stand". In fact I am married and have always been faithful and always will.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Quantum God?

We have a place in our brains that makes people have what they believe are "spiritual" feelings.

You might have a place in your brain where you believe in all sorts of mumbo jumbo but we True Christians are free of this vile witchcraft-prone affliction by the power of the Holy Spirit and protected from your spells by the blood of Jesus.

Just because you wrap your vile powers in the language of Psycho-babble-ology doesn't make it less evil.

Here is a prayer you can say to yourself to free yourself from the demon that was injected into you with your polio vaccine.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the blood of Jesus, I bind any demons in me in heaven and on Earth, in Jesus’ name and with his power and authority. Joel 2:32 says, “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered.”

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to God and that he died on the cross for my sins and were resurrected so that I might be forgiven and saved.

It is not through my actions but through Jesus’ sacrifice as my personal savior and God’s grace that I have been saved. As a true Christian, I serve God completely to do His will.

I renounce all pride. I confess and repent of all my sins before You, Lord, and ask Your forgiveness. I also confess these sins that I have never confessed before:(list any secret sins here) .

I forgive everyone who has done wrong to me. I forget resentments and grudges against all people. I forgive these people that I have not forgiven before: (list people not forgiven before here) , since the Bible says that no one’s sins can be forgiven unless they forgive others.

I renounce all involvement I have ever had with the occult and false religion, including fortune tellers, witch craft, magic and sorcery. I will throw away all items I have associated with these things which God hates.

Please, I beg of you, renounce Satan this way and open yourself wide to receive Jesus within you.

[ElizabethTheWitch]

Re: Quantum God?

Please learn how to quote properly, your quoting style gives me a headache.



You don't like my source - fine. Would Encyclopaedia Britannica be scientific enough for you? Here is the link:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...-All-Religions

It doesn't have a visually appealing pie chart, but if you sift through all these numbers, you'll see that the pie chart I provided is correct.

The polling methods are crap. Totally meaningless because people who generically believe in God, are considered to be Christians, when they aren't really Christians. True believers who actually believe Jesus is there personal savior is about 40%, including Catholics, and Mormons.

Newsflash for you: not all Hindu are the same, not all Muslims are the same, not all Buddhists are the same, and not even Jews are the same, either. Statistics like these lump minor groups into larger ones for readability. However, you're in luck, because the Britannica source splits Christianity by major denominations. Unfortunately, it does not do the same for other major religions, oh well, it was produced for a Western reader so it contains data relevant for a Western reader.

Same with Christianity. There are about a jillion different kinds of Christians and all of them believe that to believe the other versions means going to Hell.

I've underlined the answer to your own question there. The rest is irrelevant.

Like I said, there are a lot of people who say they come from Christian familys, but they themselves only believe in some generic God. They don't attend Church and they don't follow church doctrine. Yet? These people are counted as being Christians. They're not.

I would love to see a scientific source of this statistics. Or should I just blindly believe you?

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/

Here, you think so much of Pew, they are the ones saying it. Worldwide it's higher as Europe has become extremely secular.

Not necessarily. The landscape of Chinese religions is much more complicated than you imagine. Please read some academic sources before making generalized statements. For starters, may I recommend this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=9Fp8IWH2uXUC&dq=modern+china+religions&lr=&source=gbs_navlinks_s

The point is, they are not Christians and Christians don't represent a majority of the population, in truth practicing Christians are less than a 1/5 of the worlds population. In ten years there will be more Muslims than Christians.

Aren't rules and free will to break or follow them the basic tenant of human societies in general? For example, if you live in the American society, it is illegal to drive while intoxicated; you have the free will to break this rule, but if you do break it and get caught, you will be punished. God works the exact same way, except He is more efficient: you get caught every time.

This is the silliest argument I have ever heard. If one is compelled through threat of pain or death, that is not free will. If someone pulls a gun on you and robs you, you did not have free will just because you could have said no and let him kill you. Anything that threatens punishment for not complying, can not be free will. It's manipulated, not free will. Free means just that, there can be no consequence for not complying. The only consequence has to be from the action itself, not punishment for breaking the rules.

No. I believe that people have the right to believe whatever they want. By "mockers" I mean people who come to this forum with the sole purpose of ridiculing this congregation's beliefs - in other words, hindering this congregation's right to exercise their free will. Also, please note that I am not a member of the Landover Church, but I do respect beliefs of this community.

I do not ridicule what anyone believes. I wholly support every members absolute right to believe whatever they want and should not be shown disrespect for simply having religious beliefs. However, those beliefs do not include making others comply with that religion, especially people like me that don't believe it and have a right to believe what we want. Your right does not trump other peoples rights. I am all for you doing whatever you want with like minded people. What I disagree with is making your religion the law. That is against our Constitution. And I'll be damned if I will put up with anyone down talking the Constitution.

I have never seen such claim in academic sources. Please provide citations of peer reviewed publications on this subject.

I don't believe "academic sources" can predict the future. It's just something I believe. I believe humans will not only find life on other worlds, but will be able to create life at a whim from nothing more than amino acids. Stem cells have now cured Type I Diabetes, looks like organ replacement, repairing severed spinal cords and generally making Humans live past the 120 years the Bible says is the limit. Basically the Bible will be proven to be fiction but mostly people won't have a need for your God anymore. Government and medicine with be able to give them what they used to get from religion.


In other words, you 1) consider atheists to be brain damaged people, and 2) recommend lobotomy for religious people. You do know that we don't live in 1800's, right? And no, I will not look it up. It is up to you to convince me, so you need to find scientific data supporting your claims.

No, that is not what I mean. What I mean is that humans have a need for religion. We have a place in our brains that makes people have what they believe are "spiritual" feelings. In other words once the God religions die, humans will still have a need for religion because of this part of the brain. I would never be for removing this from anyone unless it was cancerous or something. There is this professor that makes people have religious out of body experiences by placing a strong magnet near that part of the Brain. Check it out, it's on one of the "Through the Wormhole" episodes.

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Quantum God?

Sins are laws

If you're trying to say that sins are violations of God's laws, I agree.

Come on, would god let a Church like the Catholic Church have over 5000 pedophile priests, in Europe alone, if it were really his church?

Absolutely not. I'm glad you agree with us that the Catholic church is not a legitimate church.

Would God have let Jim Jones lure 1000 people into the jungle and force them to commit suicide, including Children?

Not only would God let that happen, God did let that happen. Those people chose to join a false church that preached a false doctrine, and, tragically, they suffered the inevitable consequences of their bad decision. It will be no different for the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Latter Day Saints, and Methodists.

If living my life under the scrutiny of men, like yourselves who believe in controlling people through religion

Given that you are currently an out-of-control whore, I fail to see how it would be a bad thing if you allowed God to use Christianity to get you under control. Hopefully that will happen before you get hepatitis or AIDS from some customer who paid you ten dollars extra to let him do it without a condom.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Quantum God?

Again, exactly what I said. All words, no substance. ......

So typical of witch-whores.
Do you really want to pole dance Satans talleywacker? You may still have a chance to repent your sinful ways. I am willing to reach out to you. Please do not shut me out just because I care.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Quantum God?

Please learn how to quote properly, your quoting style gives me a headache.

Poppycock!!!! This old Pew nonsense is based on pure crap. It's not scientific at all. It's propaganda by the institution paid for by Christians to give them the news and science they want. Show me the Pew research, not some webpage that promises it's true. It's not. There's barely a third of Americans that identify as Christians, much less the World.

You don't like my source - fine. Would Encyclopaedia Britannica be scientific enough for you? Here is the link:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...-All-Religions

It doesn't have a visually appealing pie chart, but if you sift through all these numbers, you'll see that the pie chart I provided is correct.

There are 1.3 billion Chinese, most of whom are Buddhists. There are 1.2 Billion Indians, most of whom are Hindu or Sikh or Buddhists. Those two alone are way more than the Christians, even if all Christians were all the same religion, which they aren't.

Newsflash for you: not all Hindu are the same, not all Muslims are the same, not all Buddhists are the same, and not even Jews are the same, either. Statistics like these lump minor groups into larger ones for readability. However, you're in luck, because the Britannica source splits Christianity by major denominations. Unfortunately, it does not do the same for other major religions, oh well, it was produced for a Western reader so it contains data relevant for a Western reader.

That is over 1.2 billion people who are unaffiliated. Also, how the questions are asked and scored makes a big difference. The actual number of practicing Christians is much, much, much less. Only about a third of Americans are Practicing Christians. And for Europe it's even less. They are counting a lot of people as Christians simply because they were raised in a Christian family and say they believe in God. Only a very small percentage actually go to Church and follow their churches doctrine.

I've underlined the answer to your own question there. The rest is irrelevant.

In fact the largest growing population is that of the non-believer, now at 20% of Americans and growing every year.

I would love to see a scientific source of this statistics. Or should I just blindly believe you?

Meaningless statistic since all these people disagree on what is the right religion. It leads me to conclude that 70% of the worlds population is gullible. What people believe depends on where they were born, not what is correct. If you were born in China, you would be Buddhist because that is what you would have been taught was true.

Not necessarily. The landscape of Chinese religions is much more complicated than you imagine. Please read some academic sources before making generalized statements. For starters, may I recommend this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=9Fp8IWH2uXUC&dq=modern+china+religions&lr=&source=gbs_navlinks_s

I am not the one making people follow these stupid religious rules that make no sense. You can't say people have free will, then pass laws making them obey the rules. That is not free will. That is punishment threat, manipulation to force people to believe what they don't believe on their own. Free will is the freedom to not have to pray to any of these gods that every religion claims is the correct one.

Aren't rules and free will to break or follow them the basic tenant of human societies in general? For example, if you live in the American society, it is illegal to drive while intoxicated; you have the free will to break this rule, but if you do break it and get caught, you will be punished. God works the exact same way, except He is more efficient: you get caught every time.

I don't know what you mean by "mockers". It seems you mean people who don't believe what you believe.

No. I believe that people have the right to believe whatever they want. By "mockers" I mean people who come to this forum with the sole purpose of ridiculing this congregation's beliefs - in other words, hindering this congregation's right to exercise their free will. Also, please note that I am not a member of the Landover Church, but I do respect beliefs of this community.

In 100 years the God religions will be dead and proved wrong and new religions will emerge because humans need religion.

I have never seen such claim in academic sources. Please provide citations of peer reviewed publications on this subject.

We even have a special part of our brain dedicated to it. Damage that part of your brain and you no longer have faith or a need for it. It's well documented, look it up.

In other words, you 1) consider atheists to be brain damaged people, and 2) recommend lobotomy for religious people. You do know that we don't live in 1800's, right? And no, I will not look it up. It is up to you to convince me, so you need to find scientific data supporting your claims.