[Dr. Warren Wierdsbe]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

So Brother Warren, are you telling me you are without sin?? Jesus was the only person on earth to ever live without sin... You don't have a "Jesus-complex" do you...? Jesus died for sinners brother, which means He died for me, and Wally, and Barak Obama. You do know there is a New Testament right?

LbF:
You must be purposely misunderstanding me. I did not say I have never sinned. I was a sinner bound for the fires of Hell (so far as I knew, God had other Plans) until God shook me and made me whole.

Your post indicates you have made up your mind about what the Bible teaches without ever having read it or studied it. I have been studying it for over 50 years. So I suggest a bit of reading may be in order.

Next time you want to try to make a theological claim, I suggest you back it up with Scripture.

In Christ
Warren

[LivebyFaith]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

LbF:
You must be purposely misunderstanding me. I did not say I have never sinned. I was a sinner bound for the fires of Hell (so far as I knew, God had other Plans) until God shook me and made me whole.

Your post indicates you have made up your mind about what the Bible teaches without ever having read it or studied it. I have been studying it for over 50 years. So I suggest a bit of reading may be in order.

Next time you want to try to make a theological claim, I suggest you back it up with Scripture.

In Christ
Warren

Brother Warren, please accept my apologies if I came across as disrespectful. This was not my intent.

I did not mean to presume you have never sinned. What I was trying to ask is do you not sin now anymore? Since you became a believer, have you not sinned. I will not lie, I sin everyday. Whether it is by thought or action such as cursing at the traffic. I sin. I am a sinner. I am also a believer, so does that then mean that Jesus died for MY sins? (real question, not defensiveness).

I must correct you on one thing though, and as much as you demand respect, please also respect me when I say I have read, and daily read, the bible... I may not have your expertize, but please do not assume that I have never opened a bible in my life!!!

I can quote many scriptures on forgiveness, but below is my favorite...
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. - Acts 26:18 (this one speaks specifically about the forgiveness of the sins of sinners... (from darkness to light... from the power of Satan unto God...)

[Brother V]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

I will not lie, I sin everyday. Whether it is by thought or action such as cursing at the traffic. I sin. I am a sinner. I am also a believer, so does that then mean that Jesus died for MY sins? (real question, not defensiveness).

Dear friend, either you are a sinner, or you are a Christian, one can not be both.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I suggest you stop sinning. It may seem hard, but it's pretty easy, just don't do it.

To suggest that a True Christian (tm) sins, why, that's just preposterous.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It says that right in the Bible (KJV1611). Here's a link, in case you think I just made it up.

So what is it? Do you sin? Or are you born of God?

I've been born of God. If I believe the Bible, that means I don't sin.

What do you believe?

Or have you been brainwashed into believing that you MUST sin, and that everything that you do is a sin?

YIC
V

[Dr. Warren Wierdsbe]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

Brother Warren, please accept my apologies if I came across as disrespectful. This was not my intent.

I did not mean to presume you have never sinned. What I was trying to ask is do you not sin now anymore? Since you became a believer, have you not sinned. I will not lie, I sin everyday. Whether it is by thought or action such as cursing at the traffic. I sin. I am a sinner. I am also a believer, so does that then mean that Jesus died for MY sins? (real question, not defensiveness).

I must correct you on one thing though, and as much as you demand respect, please also respect me when I say I have read, and daily read, the bible... I may not have your expertize, but please do not assume that I have never opened a bible in my life!!!

I can quote many scriptures on forgiveness, but below is my favorite...
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. - Acts 26:18 (this one speaks specifically about the forgiveness of the sins of sinners... (from darkness to light... from the power of Satan unto God...)

LbF, I did not suggest (or intend to suggest) that you have never read the Bible. I suggested that you read MORE of the Bible. The "forgiveness" verses need to be read in the light of the rest of the entire Bible. Of course every True Christian(TM) has received forgiveness of his sins. Our wives have, too. Does that mean it's okay for us to go on sinning? Even the newest seeker knows what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery. What was it? "Go, and sin no more." Not, go, and repent when you sin again, but go, and sin no more.

I can't help but get so excited that I want to shout GLORY! when I think of the love of God for His Elect, whom He has chosen before the world began, and the fact that we no longer sin. He did it all. He paid the price, He sent the Spirit to convict and convince, He turned our hearts to Him, and Saved us by His marvelous Grace! And now He makes it possible for us to "sin no more."

A True Christian(TM) cannot sin, because we are of God. If you are a True Christian(TM) you cannot sin. Ergo, if you are sinning you need to look at your life as God looks at it.

I try to quote longer passages of Scripture than most, simply because I believe strongly that "a text without a context is a pretext," meaning, it's easier to take a single verse out of context than a whole passage. We want to see what it means.

I suggest you read and re-read 1 John 3. It means what it says. I hope you are able to understand it and learn what is in store for a True Christian(TM).

In Christ,
Warren

[LivebyFaith]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

LbF, I did not suggest (or intend to suggest) that you have never read the Bible. I suggested that you read MORE of the Bible. The "forgiveness" verses need to be read in the light of the rest of the entire Bible. Of course every True Christian™ has received forgiveness of his sins. Our wives have, too. Does that mean it's okay for us to go on sinning? Even the newest seeker knows what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery. What was it? "Go, and sin no more." Not, go, and repent when you sin again, but go, and sin no more.

I can't help but get so excited that I want to shout GLORY! when I think of the love of God for His Elect, whom He has chosen before the world began, and the fact that we no longer sin. He did it all. He paid the price, He sent the Spirit to convict and convince, He turned our hearts to Him, and Saved us by His marvelous Grace! And now He makes it possible for us to "sin no more."

A True Christian™ cannot sin, because we are of God. If you are a True Christian™ you cannot sin. Ergo, if you are sinning you need to look at your life as God looks at it.

I try to quote longer passages of Scripture than most, simply because I believe strongly that "a text without a context is a pretext," meaning, it's easier to take a single verse out of context than a whole passage. We want to see what it means.

I suggest you read and re-read 1 John 3. It means what it says. I hope you are able to understand it and learn what is in store for a True Christian™.

In Christ,
Warren

Looks like I still have something to learn... I will be sure to make this a topic of study and prayer!

[hebron the Godmocker]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

A True Christian™ cannot sin, because we are of God. If you are a True Christian™ you cannot sin. Ergo, if you are sinning you need to look at your life as God looks at it.

I try to quote longer passages of Scripture than most, simply because I believe strongly that "a text without a context is a pretext," meaning, it's easier to take a single verse out of context than a whole passage. We want to see what it means.

How, then, Dr. Wierdsbe, would you explain the Apostle John's statement previously in chaper 1 of 1 John, especially vss 8 and 10?:

4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I do not intend to question your many years of Bible study. I just want to understand for myself.

[Brother V]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

How, then, Dr. Wierdsbe, would you explain the Apostle John's statement previously in chaper 1 of 1 John, especially vss 8 and 10?:

4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I do not intend to question your many years of Bible study. I just want to understand for myself.

Where does it say that we continually sin?

Verse 8, says that "if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves".

Think of sin like paint. Think of confessing those sins as paint remover. Before we were True Christians (tm) we were painted, A LOT. Then we confessed our sins, and God was faithful to dunk us in the paint remover. The paint went away. Since I became a True Christian (tm) I'm never around paint. I don't paint. I have none on me. I was covered in paint, now I'm high on the fumes of the LORD's paint thinner!

PRAISE JESUS!!!

There's still enough thinner on me, that I can't get any paint on me.

YIC
V

[Robert Hutchins]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

Hebron, absolutely none of those excerpts applied. Obama is doing an awful job, ruining America and turning it over to the Socialists.

Have we considered pursuing a law that bans atheists from quoting scripture?

[LivebyFaith]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

Hebron, absolutely none of those excerpts applied. Obama is doing an awful job, ruining America and turning it over to the Socialists.

Have we considered pursuing a law that bans atheists from quoting scripture?

Robert, the last bit of the thread is about sin, and whether we are sinners or not... Go back and see what we are talking about.

And Hebron is not an atheist (just so you know as to not make a fool out of yourself). Careful what you assume of people on here, someone might assume your a white supremest...

[Dr. Warren Wierdsbe]

Re: Salad Bar Christians Persecute Pastor Steve Anderson!

How, then, Dr. Wierdsbe, would you explain the Apostle John's statement previously in chaper 1 of 1 John, especially vss 8 and 10?:

4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I do not intend to question your many years of Bible study. I just want to understand for myself.

Hebron,
Why do you call yourself a God mocker if you do not intend to question my understanding of God's Word?

On the other hand, I do appreciate the conciliatory tone of your post and the fact that you are
a)quoting the AV1611 King James Bible
2)quoting more than just a proof text
III)quoting from the same book

All of these things lead to a stronger understanding of what God is saying through The Apostle John, since we know that John was only acting as an amanuensis (scribe) for Him. Had you come to me and quoted this verse telling me that Christians can and do sin, I would have quoted the passage I used and asked, "then what did God mean in chapter 3?" and so forth.

So kudos to you for reading your AV1611 and caring what it says.

So how do we reconcile these things? Of course the first axiom of Biblical exegesis is that there are no contradictions in the Bible. If one believes God can contradict himself, then one has no place in Biblical study for content, one may as well content one's self with "textual criticism" on one's way to Hell.

With that basis, then, let's look at both passages.






Notice, if you will, the concurrence between the highlighted texts from both passages. They agree completely. The only question is the meaning of verses 8-10 in 1 John 1. Taken out of context, by themselves, they would seem to say that True Christians™ can sin, and God forgives us of that sin. But then one has to go through a world of contortions to try to make sense of the preponderence of the book. It makes far more sense to take God at His Word, and know that 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So how do we reconcile the two passages? There is only one answer, already provided so illustratively by Brother V. The sin spoken of in chapter 1 is the sin God forgives us of when He washes us in the Blood of Christ, takes away the penalty we have earned, justifies us before Himselfe, and makes Himself known to us. When we become True Christians™, we are cleansed. We cannot dirty ourselves again, else our Salvation® would mean nothing and the hymn would go like this:

"Ye must be born again and again and again and again and again."

1 John 1



5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Foundational axiom...God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
So we are liars if we claim fellowship and walk in darkness. If we walk in sin, we HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD. I know many "Christians" who try to say that this only means continually walking in the darkness, but the Bible does NOT say that.
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Walking uprightly, in righteousness, proves we are God's.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Here's the question. Up until now, we have been speaking about walking with God, in Whom is no darkness. So what does this verse mean? Keep reading.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Once more, I know many "Christians" who cling to this verse in a teary haze after they have fallen once more into old sins that they insist they have been saved from. But does this talk about current or past sins? Read on.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
God puts a finer point on it for us through his dictaphone, John. "Have not sinned" is past tense. That speaks to those who insist they are not sinners when we preach the Gospel to them. I will never say "I have not sinned" because that makes God a liar. However, in the light of the entire two passages, I can confidently say that "I do not sin because I am God's and He is mine. I abide in Him, and He in me."

In Christ,
Warren