[handmaiden]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

May I just state. as I have pointed out elsewhere, that the word, "conscience" is made of the two words, "consider science"?

That right there shows the danger of following one's "conscience" rather than the Word of God. It is a ploy from Satan to get you to take science and its minions, empirical evidence and linear logic, into your thinking process when you must choose how to live out your life.

Empirical evidence and logic of any kind did not get anyone into heaven. Jesus' blood sacrifice on the cross accomplished that great goal.

People really need to open their eyes and see the Truth of God before it is too late for them.


Non-scientifically Yours,

Handmaiden

[Dredgeretk]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

Friends, as a Bible-Believing True Christian™, my sense of right and wrong comes straight from the Word of God. The Bible is the very foundation of my moral values, Amen.

When I was out street-preaching last weekend, I met an honest-to-goodness Hellbount Atheist who wanted to "debate". I asked him what was his basis for morality if he doesn't believe in God or the Bible. He told me that he empathizes with others -- he knows that an action towards another is wrong if he would not like for someone else to do it to him. He gave as an example that he knows that it is wrong to kill others for pleasure because he doesn't want to be killed, and because he doesn't want anyone to kill someone he cares about.

I swiftly rebuked this Hellbound sinner with God's admonishment against following your own conscience rather than God's written laws in Deuteronomy 29:19-20 (or if you prefer, here is the Brick Testament version).

Later however, I started thinking about what that evil Athian had said. At first, I couldn't quite point out what was specifically wrong with his argument. It almost seems reasonable that one could behave morally simply by empathizing with others and following one's God given conscience. I knew that there had to be a reason for the LORD's prohibition against letting my conscience be my guide, so I did what I always do when questions pop up in my head -- I cracked open my King James 1611 Bible, and I immediately found the answer, Amen.

Empathy and conscience only get you so far. They can tell you a few obvious things, but there are too many things that they get completely wrong. The Bible is the only authority on what is right and wrong.

Here are some examples of things that conscience and empathy tell me are ok, but the Bible clearly states as being wrong:

• I know a homosexual couple who have been in a committed, monogamous relationship for thirty years. They are honest and hardworking members of the community. They have an adopted son who grew up to be just as normal and well-adjusted as anyone else. They defy every off-the-wall stereotype of gays that the American Family Association has ever thought up. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that homosexuality is ok, and that gay marriage is nothing to be afraid of. I need the Bible to tell me that it is wrong. (Leviticus 20:13 - Brick Testament; Romans 1:26-27)
• In my experience, women seem to be just as intelligent and capable as men. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that women and men are equals and that women deserve just as much dignity and respect as men do. I need the Bible to tell me that women are to be subjugated before men, and that men are to have dominion over women (1 Peter 3:1-6; Ephesians 5:22-24; 1 Timothy 2:11-15).
• I know many nonchristians who live happy, productive lives. They love their families, and they are honest and hardworking. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that it doesn't matter what, if any, religion people follow, and that we should all try to just get along. I need the Bible to tell me that nonchristians are all antichrists (2 John 7) to be shunned (2 Cor.6:14-17), and if they ever try to deconvert a Christian, I am required to kill them. (Dt.13:6-10)
• I've seen people eat pork, oysters, catfish, crablegs, crawfish, lobster, clams, scallops, fried calamari, etc. without ill effect. I have eaten of each item listed before I was saved -- they are all delicious. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I wouldn't have a clue that there was anything morally wrong with eating pork or shellfish. I need the Bible to inform me of that (Leviticus 11:7-10, Brick Testament).
• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that I should love my family. However, the Bible clearly states that I should hate my family if I want to follow Jesus. (Luke 14:26; Matthew 10:21, 35-37)

This cuts both ways. Here are some examples of things that conscience and empathy tell me are wrong, but the Bible states that as being ok:

• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that genocide is wrong. However, the Bible lists many stories where the LORD commands genocide. (Deuteronomy 7:1-6 - Brick Testament - Instructions for Genocide)
• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that slavery is wrong. However, the Bible clearly condones slavery. (Titus 2:9-10; Ephesians 6:5; 1 Timothy 6:1)
• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that peace is good and war is wrong, but the Bible says that the LORD is a man of war (Exodus 15:3), and that Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34).

I would also have been likely to come to several incorrect conclusions about the morality of rape.

• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that rape was always wrong, and that it is one of the worst crimes a person could commit against another. The Bible does indeed prescribe the death penalty for the unsanctioned rape of a betrothed woman. However, the Biblical penalty for the unsanctioned rape of an unbetrothed female is a mere slap on the wrist. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29, Brick Testament).
• I would also have been likely to come the the conclusion that in all rape cases, only the rapist was guilty guilty of wrong-doing. However, the Bible tells me that if the "victim" fails to cry out, then it is because she enjoyed it. In these cases, it is fornication, not rape, and the so-called "rapist" and "victim" are equally guilty. According to the Bible, "no" only really means "no" when she cries out loudly for help. (Dt. 22:23-24)
• Further, I would have never imagined that there would ever be a time that rape would be considered a good thing. I would have been grievously wrong, because God often commands his Christian soldiers to rape the virgin women of a village after they have killed all the men, boys, and non-virgin women (Numbers 31 - Brick Testament).

Friends, what the Word of God says and what your conscience tell you will frequently be in conflict. Being saved and having faith means ignoring your conscience and following Jesus, Amen.

Praise Jesus!
Pastor Billy-Reuben

In all of this, I do not disagree with you to follow God's word.
But where do you think you get your since of morality, or conscience from, if not from what God has taught us?

You're first verse was misinterpreted because he actually defied the word of God to suite his own needs. More or less ignoring that he has been cursed by God. This is not his conscience but his actual way of thinking which is wrong.

The Bible does tell us what is right and wrong in God's eyes, but we also have the free will to decide for ourselves, and he will not curse us for making mistakes.

Yes, you can know homosexuality is wrong, and not even support it. That does not mean you persecute them.
Men have dominion over women some what, that does not mean they are lesser than men and it is a man's job to protect them and not rule over them harshly or detrimentally.

Nonchsristians are the lost and unsaved, not necessarily worshipers of the devil, satanic. They are to be helped back towards God and to understand his love for them, not turned away. If they do try to lure brethren away, reason with them first, make them see the folly of their ways, and try to get them to repent of their sin. If they refuse and continue in their way, cast them away from yourself and brothers and sisters. You. Don't. Kill. Them. Not only will you be prosecuted by the law most likely, it is against his commandment and applies to everyone. No one is higher above the other under the eyes of God, but he has set laws down and their are those who follow them, and those who disobey.

Food has nothing to do with sinning or not, unless you defile it when it was sacrificed to God.

God teaches Love, not hate, and the only thing God hates is Sin, not the sinner. What it means and refers to is that if you allow outside influences to turn you away from God, and you follow them, even with good intentions, you will be shaped accordingly.

That means don't convert to the people of that land's customs, not kill them. But yes, if God gives the land to you, then he will. That doesn't mean he condones genocide.

I will not paraphrase the rest, most people won't read the entire post anyways because they dislike reading long posts, if you do that's fine.
Most of your quotes have been from the Old Testament, that being said, they applied to that period of time, and while we should interpret them today to give us a clear understanding of God's word and what he did then, we must not necessarily follow them. A consequence of this being, you will be shunned by society, most of society, you will be persecuted, and you will be deemed as fanatical, which I have to say with most of the people's replies in this forum, I don't know if you're joking or not.

Most likely you will find this offensive and being against what you believe you will remove me from the forum, and I accept that. If it does take place, it will then show you can not be helped and I will forsake you, and pray that God forsake you as well. Not with Joy, but with mercy, for if he doesn't, then you might be better off left without a God.

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

In all of this, I do not disagree with you to follow God's word.
But where do you think you get your since of morality, or conscience from, if not from what God has taught us?

You're first verse was misinterpreted because he actually defied the word of God to suite his own needs. More or less ignoring that he has been cursed by God. This is not his conscience but his actual way of thinking which is wrong.

The Bible does tell us what is right and wrong in God's eyes, but we also have the free will to decide for ourselves, and he will not curse us for making mistakes.

Yes, you can know homosexuality is wrong, and not even support it. That does not mean you persecute them.
Men have dominion over women some what, that does not mean they are lesser than men and it is a man's job to protect them and not rule over them harshly or detrimentally.

Nonchsristians are the lost and unsaved, not necessarily worshipers of the devil, satanic. They are to be helped back towards God and to understand his love for them, not turned away. If they do try to lure brethren away, reason with them first, make them see the folly of their ways, and try to get them to repent of their sin. If they refuse and continue in their way, cast them away from yourself and brothers and sisters. You. Don't. Kill. Them. Not only will you be prosecuted by the law most likely, it is against his commandment and applies to everyone. No one is higher above the other under the eyes of God, but he has set laws down and their are those who follow them, and those who disobey.

Food has nothing to do with sinning or not, unless you defile it when it was sacrificed to God.

God teaches Love, not hate, and the only thing God hates is Sin, not the sinner. What it means and refers to is that if you allow outside influences to turn you away from God, and you follow them, even with good intentions, you will be shaped accordingly.

That means don't convert to the people of that land's customs, not kill them. But yes, if God gives the land to you, then he will. That doesn't mean he condones genocide.

I will not paraphrase the rest, most people won't read the entire post anyways because they dislike reading long posts, if you do that's fine.
Most of your quotes have been from the Old Testament, that being said, they applied to that period of time, and while we should interpret them today to give us a clear understanding of God's word and what he did then, we must not necessarily follow them. A consequence of this being, you will be shunned by society, most of society, you will be persecuted, and you will be deemed as fanatical, which I have to say with most of the people's replies in this forum, I don't know if you're joking or not.

Most likely you will find this offensive and being against what you believe you will remove me from the forum, and I accept that. If it does take place, it will then show you can not be helped and I will forsake you, and pray that God forsake you as well. Not with Joy, but with mercy, for if he doesn't, then you might be better off left without a God.

Brevity is always best when making a point as unsaved trash. Can you condense your rant and not waste so much of God's precious bandwith?

Maybe I can help. You love gays, heathens and support women in roles they were never intended for. Is this your position?

In Christ!

[handmaiden]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

"Most of your quotes have been from the Old Testament, that being said, they applied to that period of time, and while we should interpret them today to give us a clear understanding of God's word and what he did then, we must not necessarily follow them."

These words are the usual sorry excuse of the false Christian.

An Almighty, Perfect, Sinless, External God gave His believers various instructions and prohibitions years ago. These things were right and good in His eyes.

A few centuries later-- a mere drop in the bucket of time to the one who created time-- He decides that the instructions that He Himself gave are wrong. He also decided that the things that He said were wrong, are now all right.


Who in their right mind would worship a God like that?



My brothers will be along shortly with scripture verses that will lay things out in God's direct language, but I just thought that you might like to prepare yourself.


Bewilderedly Yours,

Handmaiden

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

In all of this, I do not disagree with you to follow God's word.
But where do you think you get your since of morality, or conscience from, if not from what God has taught us?

Pastor Billy-Reuben was saying that we get it only from what God has taught us.

Atheists claim that morality "evolved" as part of living in a functional society. Hence their belief that female genital mutilation is OK in Muslim cultures. That's called "cultural relativism".

The Bible does tell us what is right and wrong in God's eyes, but we also have the free will to decide for ourselves, and he will not curse us for making mistakes.

Actually, since He has given us the Bible so we know what is right and wrong ("in God's eyes" is redundant, as He is the sole arbiter of right and wrong, not our flawed human judgment), He will not curse but instead will damn us to an eternity in His Lake of Fire for what you call "mistakes". Deciding on our own to disobey His Word because we think we know better than God is self-worship and rebellion, which God does not tolerate. Look what happened to Lucifer, once the most beautiful of angels!

Yes, you can know homosexuality is wrong, and not even support it. That does not mean you persecute them.

We don't; we inform them that God will cast them into Hell. However, once we re-establish Christian law in this nation, they will be executed as God commands!

Men have dominion over women some what, that does not mean they are lesser than men and it is a man's job to protect them and not rule over them harshly or detrimentally.

Can you cite Scripture to support this assertion?

Nonchsristians are the lost and unsaved, not necessarily worshipers of the devil, satanic. They are to be helped back towards God and to understand his love for them, not turned away. If they do try to lure brethren away, reason with them first, make them see the folly of their ways, and try to get them to repent of their sin. If they refuse and continue in their way, cast them away from yourself and brothers and sisters. You. Don't. Kill. Them. Not only will you be prosecuted by the law most likely, it is against his commandment and applies to everyone.

Whoa! You were doing well up until saying that executing those who try to lead Christians astray is against His commandments. He actually directs us to do exactly that. It is exactly what Moses did to the Midianites, per God's demand (Numbers 31).

It is only because of His command to follow secular law that we do not currently execute apostates.

No one is higher above the other under the eyes of God, but he has set laws down and their are those who follow them, and those who disobey.

And those who disobey spend eternity in Hell. I'd consider that "beneath" those who do obey, wouldn't you?

God teaches Love, not hate, and the only thing God hates is Sin, not the sinner.

Please cite Scripture to support this assertion.

That means don't convert to the people of that land's customs, not kill them. But yes, if God gives the land to you, then he will. That doesn't mean he condones genocide.

So when He commanded Moses to commit multiple acts of genocide, He wasn't condoning genocide?

Most of your quotes have been from the Old Testament, that being said, they applied to that period of time, and while we should interpret them today to give us a clear understanding of God's word and what he did then, we must not necessarily follow them.

Really?

So, great Bible scholar and prophet, which parts of God's Law are we free to discard, according to you?

I'd be willing to bet it's the parts you don't like.

What did Jesus say on the subject? Let's look at Matthew 5, the Sermon on the Mount:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Hmm, does that sound like Jesus is saying, "Hey, now that I'm here, you can follow only the parts of God's Law that you find convenient, and then say, "Golly, I'm sorry about that, Jesus" when you break other DIRECT COMMANDMENTS OF YOUR CREATOR"?

A consequence of this being, you will be shunned by society, most of society, you will be persecuted, and you will be deemed as fanatical, which I have to say with most of the people's replies in this forum, I don't know if you're joking or not.

Do you honestly think we put the opinions of Hellbound heathens above God's opinion?

Most likely you will find this offensive and being against what you believe you will remove me from the forum, and I accept that. If it does take place, it will then show you can not be helped and I will forsake you, and pray that God forsake you as well. Not with Joy, but with mercy, for if he doesn't, then you might be better off left without a God.

"If you ban me for denying God's Word and mocking Jesus and trying to convert you to worshiping a god I've imagined instead of the God of the Bible, it's proof you're closed-minded and can't be helped, and then I'll pray that God damns you." Wow, never heard that one before.

You are obviously here to try to collect souls for your master, Satan. We are not interested in joining you in God's Lake of Fire for eternity, thank you very much.

[LongJohn]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

Friends, as a Bible-Believing True Christian™, my sense of right and wrong comes straight from the Word of God. The Bible is the very foundation of my moral values, Amen.

Amen, brother. The Bible has everything that matters.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

Amen, brother. The Bible has everything that matters.

Have you posted on the introductions forum?

[McMaterna]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

This is honestly making me sick to my stomach. I read the "nooks read this first" thread and I was shocked and disgusted. You preach about how "Jesus loves you" yet you are so hateful of anyone different from you. I can not comprehend how anyone could judge and hate the way I have seen you do on this website! The way you speak about African Americans is appalling, you really should be ashamed. Relegious groups should be about love and inclusion, not hate, fear, and exclusion. You forget that GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE, you may believe that he inspired the writers of it, but it's a proven face that it has been re-written and tampered with over time. Please explain to me how you are capable of hating someone that you don't even know, because I really don't understand how you claim to be preaching this filth in the word of God.

[McMaterna]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

I'm not quite sure how to use this, but i meant to say "noobs" and my auto-correct changed it to nooks. I didn't notice until after I posted.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

This is honestly making me sick to my stomach. I read the "nooks read this first" thread and I was shocked and disgusted. You preach about how "Jesus loves you" yet you are so hateful of anyone different from you. I can not comprehend how anyone could judge and hate the way I have seen you do on this website!

Friend, we don't hate anyone here. We merely preach from the Word of God in our attempts to save people's souls.

Leviticus 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

The way you speak about African Americans is appalling, you really should be ashamed. Relegious groups should be about love and inclusion, not hate, fear, and exclusion.

Firstly, we do not hate negros at all. We want God to save their souls despite the curse of Ham.

Secondly, the Bible does not teach inclusion. The Word says we should be separated from the unsaved and not even allow them into our homes.

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

You forget that GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE, you may believe that he inspired the writers of it, but it's a proven face that it has been re-written and tampered with over time.

Who tampered with and rewrote the Bible? So you are saying we should throw the entire thing out?

[McMaterna]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

I'm not sure how to put the quotes or anything, but about your question of who tampered with the bible: I do not know the names, but before separation of church and state, the religious law was the one that mattered, so the king could not pass laws. The king, however, was in control of the pope, and whenever he wanted to pass a new law, he would have the pope make the monks re-write and change parts of the bible. It's proven. Now, yes, my answer is short and to the point but it is proven.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

The king, however, was in control of the pope, and whenever he wanted to pass a new law, he would have the pope make the monks re-write and change parts of the bible. It's proven. Now, yes, my answer is short and to the point but it is proven.

Do you have any sort of link that backs up this claim? I'll wait.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

This is honestly making me sick to my stomach…You preach about how "Jesus loves you"…You forget that GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE…it has been re-written and tampered with over time. Please explain to me.. etc.

I know everyone will be happy to explain, but first it might help if you could outline the question a little clearer. If The Bible is not written by God, how do you know anything about Him, or about Jesus? How can you say that this or that church is "incorrect" or that their treatment of heathens as outlined in The Bible is wrong?

[McMaterna]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

I'm not claiming to know everything about God or Jesus. I'm just saying that as humans, as people, we should LOVE each other. We shouldn't hate someone just because some book tells us to. A person is a person, no matter what race, belief, or sexuality they are, they deserve to be treated kindly. And just because this is what you believe in, doesn't make it the one truth. I'm just saying that tearing down someone because of their sexuality, race, or non belief in Jesus or god, isn't morally right. Show them some LOVE, not hate.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience"

I'm not claiming to know everything about God or Jesus. I'm just saying that as humans, as people, we should LOVE each other. We shouldn't hate someone just because some book tells us to. A person is a person, no matter what race, belief, or sexuality they are, they deserve to be treated kindly. And just because this is what you believe in, doesn't make it the one truth. I'm just saying that tearing down someone because of their sexuality, race, or non belief in Jesus or god, isn't morally right. Show them some LOVE, not hate.

How are we not showing love to the filthy unsaved scum? We are warning them their disgusting actions are sending them to Hell. We're trying to HELP these walking piles of shit ESCAPE Hell!

How is that wrong?

How?