[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

No less an authority than Robert Schadewald wrote -- in the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER NO LESS! -- that "...flat-earthism is as well supported scripturally and scientifically as creationism."

Now let's do the math. 55% of all American voters believe in creationism. If flat-earthism is as valid scripturally AND SCIENTIFICALLY as creationism, then OVER HALF OF ALL AMERICANS should, based on Christian beliefs, find that flat-earthism is valid.

157,118,453.25 American Christians believe that God's Word is better than scientific snot-hole-ism about evolution. Why should Christian scripture indicating a flat earth be any less believable?

I'll bet you doubters just think scripture is a pile of stupid superstition that should be eliminated from the human mental gene pool. God hates people like you.

~~ OEJ

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

What Americans do and do not believe is irrelevant. The matter of the world being flat is a scientifical matter, not a matter of faith.

The majority of Americans may believe in creationism, but the belief that the Earth is flat is not so common, as you see, it has been proven wrong. People sailing around the world, treks across the polar regions, satellite imagery, even simple maths which I used in my previous post have all been used to prove it wrong.

It is possible I am mistaken about the metaphorical meanings, but do not forget that in Jesus' time, it was indeed believed that the world was flat, due to insufficent technology to prove otherwise.

The Bible is a book of religion, not of science. Do not quote it in a scientific debate.

[Toxcity]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

The earth is curved guys, you cannot take everything the bibles says so literaly.
Remember it was written by humans, and humans are imperfect.
Plus it was written before people tavelled around(thats right, a"round") the earth.

Have you guys gone up in a plane? you can actually see the curviture of the earth.

Well that what I think anywhoo.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

The earth is curved guys, you cannot take everything the bibles says so literaly.
Remember it was written by humans, and humans are imperfect.
Plus it was written before people tavelled around(thats right, a"round") the earth.

Have you guys gone up in a plane? you can actually see the curviture of the earth.

Well that what I think anywhoo.

God says otherwise.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The KJV1611 Bible is the LITERAL Word of God. Who are you to say otherwise? Who are you to tell us which verses to follow and which to treat as a fairy tale?

We are not "feelgood" Christians who pick and choose which verses to follow, pal. We are True Christians™, and we follow the entire Bible, word-for-word. Glory!!

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Goodness, Toxicity, if what you say is true -- that the Bible is not trustworthy on matters of scientific reality -- then think of the consequences!

1. Over half of all Americans are deeply deluded, and can't tell reality from crackpot mythology.

2. In fact, either the Bible is not God's Word, or else God ain't very omniscient at all.

3. Our leaders -- our current president and many of his staff, many legislative leaders, and some of the contenders for the presidency -- are delusional, unable to distinguish between objective facts and superstition.

What a terrible state of affairs America would be in if what you say is true! Lawsy me, rational people ought to be denouncing Christianity as an injurious mental disease.

If what you write is true.

But of course we Christians know that God is the ultimate Truth!

But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, long suffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth. Psalm 86:15

~~ OEJ

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

So what you're saying, One-Eyed-Jack, is that if what you believed was not true, then you would be batshit insane for believing it?
And you think that you are not insane, because the book you gain your beliefs from says it is the truth? This sounds like circular reasoning to me.

Also, no-one has come up with an objection to my argument about light. Perhaps you can't?

[Brother Cletus]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

So what you're saying, One-Eyed-Jack, is that if what you believed was not true, then you would be batshit insane for believing it?

Of course that's what he said: can't you read English, or do you need it to be translated into some kind of hippie commie French?

We just thank God that is *IS* true because the Bible says it is! Glory!!!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Perhaps you should do some reseach of your own.



'very distant', 'cluster of galaxies'. In relation to how big the universe is, the sun is hardly 'very distant' from the Earth, especially in relation to a galaxy, let alone a whole cluster of them.
Allow me to clarify: Our Sun is a star. A Galaxy is a collection of hundreds of thousands of stars. Other than the Sun, the closest star to Earth is Proxima Centauri, which is almost 40 trillion kilometres away, (39.9 to be exact). The sun is 150 million km away, which is comparatively small.
The size of several collections of millions of stars trillions of kilometres away from one another is sensationally greater than the distance between the Sun and the Earth.
Gravity is the force between 2 objects. Light is energy, not an object. It is composed of photons, which have no mass, hence being able to travel at the speed of light. Having no mass, they are virtually unaffected by gravity and so would not be bent even remotely in such a short distance.

If the Sun went around underneath the Earth at night, why, therefore is it night in Australia when it is day in the UK?. It is 00:52 GMT now, yet it is 19:52 EST. If the Sun was above all the Earth, it should be equally light in different parts of the world at all times. Yet I am sitting here next to my window in the UK and it is most certainly totally dark out, when for you the Sun may still be setting.

America is roughly 7000km from the UK. Light travels at a speed of 299,796,000 m/s. According to your flat Earth theory, light should take at least 5 hours to reach the UK from America. But if you do a simple calculation, you will see that it in fact takes alot less than 1 second.

There is your flat Earth foolishness proven wrong. When the Bible says 'the four corners of the Earth' and other such things, they are strictly metaphorical. Taking every word of the Bible literally is foolishness, it was even said by many followers of Christ during His time that Christ spoke in riddles.

Typical of a Darwinist you insist on misreading what I wrote. I brought up "Gravitational lenseing" as an example of light being bent by gravity. You will also recall this was proved by observing stars around the sun during an eclipse. It is perfectly reasonable, by your’ own nature worshiping logic, that the same effect would happen on a round earth so that discredits that whole silly round earth theory of yours’. I will ignore your’ comments about it being dark in Australia when it is light in America, that is just a racial cheep shot and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Frankly I find it flabbergasting that you Darwinists are close minded and utterly refuse to acknowledge the evidence right before your’ eyes.

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Typical of a Darwinist you insist on misreading what I wrote. I brought up "Gravitational lenseing" as an example of light being bent by gravity. You will also recall this was proved by observing stars around the sun during an eclipse. It is perfectly reasonable, by your’ own nature worshiping logic, that the same effect would happen on a round earth so that discredits that whole silly round earth theory of yours’.

Typical of a creationist to insist on mireading my post. I stated that light is composed of photons, particles of zero resting mass. I also made the point that gravity is the attraction between two masses. Explain how an object of mass, such as the Earth, attracts particles of no mass via gravity.
Oh, wait. It doesn't.
As for seeing the stars during a solar eclipse (When making a point about an eclipse, be sure to point out which kind, for argument's sake.), this is the same effect as seeing the stars at night. The Sun's light outshines that of the stars during the day, explaining why we cannot see them at daytime. During an eclipse, the Sun's light is blocked by the moon. As such, this allows us to view the light from the stars previously hidden by the light from the Sun.

I will ignore your’ comments about it being dark in Australia when it is light in America, that is just a racial cheep shot and you should be ashamed of yourself.

A racial cheap shot? You know what light and dark means, right? What God 'created' on the first day in Genesis. (Even though would have been impossible, not only due to the laws of thermodynamics, but largely to the fact that there was no light source to give off light, and you cannot create darkness, only remove light.)
I mean light and dark as in day and night. Dark being the absence of light, and light being energy given off by a light source. Also, I said it would be light in the UK when it was dark in Australia, not the US.

Frankly I find it flabbergasting that you Darwinists are close minded and utterly refuse to acknowledge the evidence right before your’ eyes.

I was not always an atheist, I have considered the points from evolution and science and those from Christianity from a neutral perspective. I find that every creationist argument can be disproven, and at the end of the day, you have but your book, whereas science has fact, logic and reason.

[DJ Troll]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

scripture is a pile of stupid superstition that should be eliminated from the human mental gene pool.

I couldn't have said it much better myself. Thanks, One-Eyed Jack!!!

[JennyD]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

What Americans do and do not believe is irrelevant. The matter of the world being flat is a scientifical matter, not a matter of faith.

. . .

The Bible is a book of religion, not of science. Do not quote it in a scientific debate.

Sasha -

God wrote the Bible to tell humans about the world and His plan.

Now, considering God created the universe, including all matter and the physical laws which govern that matter, exactly WHAT "scientifical" source would you consider better to quote?

The Book by the Guy who created everything, and knows everything, or something some of His creations guessed, hypothesized, and theorized their way to?

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Holy hopping Hillary honkers! Of COURSE the Bible is true! Jesus says so!

And references to the Truth of the LORD God are all through the Bible!

O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles. Psalm 43:3

Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Psalm 119:151

Confuseth NOT the issue, O ye onions of Satan! WAIT! Onions? No, I meant to write, O ye minions of Satan! Minions!

Confuseth not old and intestinally restive Jack, lest he fall into grievous error and thereby have to go change his trousers. I said that IF the Bible was a load of bronze-age bollocks that anyone who believed it would have to be a chowder-head. (Alright, the New Testament is well into the Iron Age. Let us not quibble.)

But it is NOT bollocks! We have sure word of prophecy that it is God Own Truth.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:19,20

So just get thee behind me, Satan...yes, way over there behind the EZ-Boy recliner. And I don't want to hear another peep out of you all night.

~~ OEJ

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Typical of a creationist to insist on mireading my post. I stated that light is composed of photons, particles of zero resting mass. I also made the point that gravity is the attraction between two masses. Explain how an object of mass, such as the Earth, attracts particles of no mass via gravity.
Oh, wait. It doesn't.

How can you say it doesn’t? God decrees what gravity is. Christian sciences has long ago proven that gravity is just angels holding things down. Basically the angels fly up and grab the light photons and drag them down a little bit.

As for seeing the stars during a solar eclipse (When making a point about an eclipse, be sure to point out which kind, for argument's sake.), this is the same effect as seeing the stars at night. The Sun's light outshines that of the stars during the day, explaining why we cannot see them at daytime. During an eclipse, the Sun's light is blocked by the moon. As such, this allows us to view the light from the stars previously hidden by the light from the Sun.

No, what happened was a star near the edge of the sun observed “position” was moved by the gravitational effect of the sun. This could only be seen during an eclipse because the sun is so bright.

A racial cheap shot? You know what light and dark means, right?

It also means ignorant. You are saying Australians are backwards. There is no room for hate at Landover.

I was not always an atheist, I have considered the points from evolution and science and those from Christianity from a neutral perspective. I find that every creationist argument can be disproven, and at the end of the day, you have but your book, whereas science has fact, logic and reason.

So, another ex-Christian atheist? I am so sad you chose reason over damnation. I do hope you are not here just to use Landover to mock Christians by making us sound like a bunch of raving idiots.

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Sasha -

God wrote the Bible to tell humans about the world and His plan.

I am interested in this plan, please explain it to me.

Now, considering God created the universe, including all matter and the physical laws which govern that matter, exactly WHAT "scientifical" source would you consider better to quote?

Assuming that God created the universe and it could be proven, then fair enough, I would openly accept God's teaching.
Oh, wait, you cannot prove it, you only have faith.
People are different, some choose to accept that in this lifetime, chances are, we aren't going to find out how the universe began, if it didn't always exist. Those people turn to a supernatrual explanation because it is not something we are currently able to explain. You have faith or 'hope' that what you believe is true, because otherwise you would be lost and find life to have no meaning. And I know you cannot stand the thought of that.

However people like me constantly seek answers. I seek the truth. Nothing will change when I find it, because its history, but I have a thirst for knowledge. Scientists are scientists because they share this thirst. the quest for knowledge is human. It is also infinite. But human instinct drives me to search for the truth. I do not wish to be deceived.

The Book by the Guy who created everything, and knows everything, or something some of His creations guessed, hypothesized, and theorized their way to?

A hypothesis is the begging of the discovery of knowledge. A hypothesis is based on our current knowledge of the world as we know it.
If the Bible says something, and we then test that and find it to be false, the whole book becomes meaningless.
If the Bible indeed literally means that the Earth is flat, then it is wrong, as I showed you already. What is the point in believing something we can prove to be incorrect? If God deceives us so, then his malevolence knows no bounds.


And for the record, its 'Sacha', not 'Sasha'. 'Sasha' is the female form of the name.

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

How can you say it doesn’t? God decrees what gravity is. Christian sciences has long ago proven that gravity is just angels holding things down. Basically the angels fly up and grab the light photons and drag them down a little bit.

God? Last time I checked, the laws of gravity were attributed to Sir Isaac Newton.
Also, if you could show me where in the Bible, or better yet, any empirical evidence of these angels doing this, I would be grateful.

No, what happened was a star near the edge of the sun observed “position” was moved by the gravitational effect of the sun. This could only be seen during an eclipse because the sun is so bright.

There are no stars near enough to the Sun to be affected by its gravitational pull. Either way, I don't see how this affects my point, if anything, it supports it.

It also means ignorant. You are saying Australians are backwards. There is no room for hate at Landover.

What I'm saying is that the Earth is round, as I proved a few posts back. In any case, what is to say that I am not saying us Britons are not backwards? I've seen that said by a fair number of your fellow American members.
In fact I see alot of your veteran members making hateful statements towards people of others cultures and races all the time.

So, another ex-Christian atheist? I am so sad you chose reason over damnation. I do hope you are not here just to use Landover to mock Christians by making us sound like a bunch of raving idiots.

Sad I chose reason over damnation? My friend, that means that because of reason, I have been saved. I think you intended to say that I chose reason over salvation. But do not fret, everyone makes mistakes.

No, I am not here to mock you. In the discovery of your forum from the Super Mario Galaxy scandal, I was incredibly saddened by what people were writing here. I saw ignorance, intolerance, racism, sexism, theory which had been outdated for centuries. Just as the Jehovah's witness comes to my door with hope of saving me, and I send them off with their tails between legs having proven them wrong on pretty much every point they made, I come to you, in hope of enlightening you. I appreciate your beliefs, however I disagree with them. Many people have worked very hard to abolish your outdated ethics, and in modern society, yours are seen simply as ignorant and intolerant.
Another reason I post in your forum is that I noticed people were shrugging off points against their beliefs with no consideration towards the matter, or flaming those who dare try and speak anything not explicity written in the Bible. I would like to encourage open-minded debate, as I believe that this is the true path to salvation of any kind.

If you do not wish me to be here, simply say so, and I will leave. But I hope that you consider all I have said with an open mind.