[shert]

Re: Moon God

Nobody here has said anything about that.
What we DID say however, is that Ramadan starts and ends with a new moon.
The physical sighting of the moon is important..
WHY SO? Why is the moon so important to you, I wonder..

Let me answer your wonders by a copy/paste from previous post you chose to ignore:
" 4 - Muslims observe the month of Ramadan based on the moon cycle. SO!!
Muslims use the moon to determine the months of the year, does that make them worship the moon!!
Chinese people use the moon to determine the months of their year, does that make them worship the moon!!
And if I am not mistaken, the month January to December is based on the Sun. Does that make you worship the sun!!"

The cross is for obvious reasons very closely associated with Jesus..

So you do worship the cross??!!

Are you admitting that the moon is closely associated with Islam?

Nope, i didn't say that

How is that? Just what does "allah" have to do with the moon, I wonder?


The only thing the moon has to do with Allah, is that Allah is the creator of everything, including the moon.

Anything else is just false accusation.
If you bring a moon or a crescent moon from a mosque and I through in the sewer or burn it or pee on it, will that prove to you that it has no holy value whatsoever??



No, but since you worship your "allah" with exactly the same rites at the Kaba as the moon worshippers did..
The practice is EXACTLY the same, it's just that for you, your god is named "Allah" instead of "Al-Ilah" or "Hubal"..
What a big difference.

Can you be more specific?? Tell me what are these practices?? And what are the similarities

Yes, of course your religion cannot have originated in pagan moon worship..
How could we ever think that? After all, the rites are only exactly the same, the symbol for your religions is exactly the same..
And the name of your respective gods actually differ with ONE WHOLE LETTER!
The difference is so HUGE!


How could one EVER think you are basically the same religion?
Stop acting like a fool.



Total coincidences right?



Yes, of course a partial pro-Islamic document desperatly pushing the idea that you are not pagans, but monotheistic worshippers of God..
Are going to admit that you worship the moon!
Right.

So you are saying that we are worshiping a moon without us knowing about it??

As I said, you're only trying to weasel your way out of this.

As you see here I am doing everything I could to reply to every single thing you write, unlike you who copy/paste the parts the suits your argument and ignore whatever doesn't. As you see above, you are asking the same question again and again and choosing to ignore the answers.
I don't know why I always answer you by copy/paste my previous posts!!

Why don't you try refuting our claims if you are you so sure Islam is the right way, instead of sticking your head in the sand?

Look above to see who is sticking his head in the sand to ignore my answers, and copy/paste whatever suits his argument.

Now, please don't ignore my post and ask the same questions again. And please be honest and copy/paste the whole statement, not what suits your argument only.

[shert]

Re: Moon God

Thanks to all who posted in this topic, including those who use horrible sarcasm to prove themselves.

OnYourKnees & SalvationSeeker:
First, I went through your posts looking for Koran or Hadith quotes stating that Muslims follow a moon god. I found NONE.

Then I re-looked at these points you posted, I concluded the following proofs that Muslims worship a moon god.

Note: The links you posted indicated 260 idols around Ka'ba. Thats wrong, there were around 360 of them. All of them were destroyed by Mohammed.

1 - People of Arabia worshiped a moon God. SO!!
That doesn't make Muslims worship a moon God just because their ancestors did!! especially that you guys have failed to provide any Koran or Hadith quotes since Islam derives its laws from them.

2 - The name of Allah:
" The blessed name "Allaah" is derived from the Arabic verb alaha/ya’lahu/ma’looh [the root of which is the three letters alif, laam, haa’]. This verb includes the meaning of love as well as worship. Allaah is the One Who is loved, glorified and feared by the believers, and they put their hope in Him."

3 - The moon symbol on mosques. SO!!
Can I say Christians worship crosses?? Because their life is full of it??
Can I say Christians worship colored glass!! Just because most, if not all, churches are decorated with it!!

The moon or crescent is meant for decoration. It has no holy value whatsoever.

4 - Muslims observe the month of Ramadan based on the moon cycle. SO!!
Muslims use the moon to determine the months of the year, does that make them worship the moon!!
Chinese people use the moon to determine the months of their year, does that make them worship the moon!!
And if I am not mistaken, the month January to December is based on the Sun. Does that make you worship the sun!!

5 - Allah Vs. Ilah:
This is matter of Arabic language. You see Allah is a name, Ilah is a noun meaning God. When you want to say "The God", you add "Al". So, the God translates to "Alilah".
And surely there were many of the "The God" or "Alilah" before Islam, but none were named Allah.

6 - Arabs were pagans and polytheists before Islam. SO!!

If I have missed any other points please say so.



Now, lets come to Christianity Deity.
We have the following entities:
The Father: He is a full God.
The Son: He is a full God.
The Holy Spirit: He or It is a full God.

The above three Gods co-exist. They communicate with each others. Each single one of them is referred to as a God.

After that, you guys say you are monotheists!! That you only worship one God.

I asked many Christians to explain this to me, they all ended up saying "We cannot explain, it is just a fact that you have to accept and believe in!!"
Well, sorry, I don't believe in something just because someone said so.

OnYourKnees:
I am quoting myself above for you to see that I have responded to your points. And Also asked you if I missed any.

The "SO" parts above is asking you for more clarifications about these observations you made.

You are the one who chose to ignore my points trying to avoid explaining these stupid obeservations.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Moon God

OnYourKnees:
I am quoting myself above for you to see that I have responded to your points. And Also asked you if I missed any.

The "SO" parts above is asking you for more clarifications about these observations you made.

You are the one who chose to ignore my points trying to avoid explaining these stupid obeservations.

Saying "SO!!" is not responding to a point.

What is the origin of the crescent moon in Islam?

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Moon God

Let me answer your wonders by a copy/paste from previous post you chose to ignore:
" 4 - Muslims observe the month of Ramadan based on the moon cycle. SO!!
Muslims use the moon to determine the months of the year, does that make them worship the moon!!
Chinese people use the moon to determine the months of their year, does that make them worship the moon!!
And if I am not mistaken, the month January to December is based on the Sun. Does that make you worship the sun!!"

Ramadan begins with the physical sighting of the moon, not an exact date.
BUT THE SIGHTING OF THE MOON.

So you do worship the cross??!!

No.
And what kind of question is that? It's so totally besides the point.
The cross is a symbol of our faith because Jesus was CRUCIFED, that is put on a cross!

WHY IS THE MOON A SYMBOL OF ISLAM, HOWEVER?

Nope, i didn't say that

I see.
So it's not assocatied with Islam at all, after all, you only use one as your symbol.

For no reason whatsoever?

The only thing the moon has to do with Allah, is that Allah is the creator of everything, including the moon.

Ahh.. So that's why you use the moon as a symbol, instead of all the other MILLIONS of things he would have created?
Great explanation!

If you bring a moon or a crescent moon from a mosque and I through in the sewer or burn it or pee on it, will that prove to you that it has no holy value whatsoever??

No, but it will prove to me what I already know: That you mudslimes are vandals and barbarians.

Can you be more specific?? Tell me what are these practices?? And what are the similarities

Let's see:
Praying towards Mecca (the Kaba) EXACTLY as the pagans did.
Trying to touch/kiss the stone of Kaba EXACTLY as the pagans did.
Making a pilgrimage to Mecca atleast once in your life EXACTLY as the pagans did.
Throwing rocks at sticks meant to represent the devil at Mecca, EXACTLY as the pagans did.

And not to mention, you share the same symbol with those pagans too:
The crescent moon.

Yes, no similarites whatsoever.

So you are saying that we are worshiping a moon without us knowing about it??

I am saying that modern muslims doesn't know what their religion come from, nor what they worship.

As you see here I am doing everything I could to reply to every single thing you write, unlike you who copy/paste the parts the suits your argument and ignore whatever doesn't. As you see above, you are asking the same question again and again and choosing to ignore the answers.
I don't know why I always answer you by copy/paste my previous posts!!

I've wrote every single word myself.
False accusation.

Look above to see who is sticking his head in the sand to ignore my answers, and copy/paste whatever suits his argument.

See above.

Now, please don't ignore my post and ask the same questions again. And please be honest and copy/paste the whole statement, not what suits your argument only.

You haven't answered a single thing yet..
Only made accusations.

[The Adversary]

Re: Moon God

Shert is doing a pretty good job of arguing his case, despite the denial he is clearly in.

"Ye shall know them by the company they keep". Islam is but the latest in a series of angry desert religions. All we need to know about the religion is that the Quran is not worded clearly enough to keep extremist imams from sending out suicide bombers and terrorists. Instead the xenophobic nature of the "sacred texts" is enough to convince Muslims that it is OK to jihad.

Shert wishes you to prove him wrong using only Muhammad's (Pandamonium Be Upon Him) sacred writings, but that doesn't work. L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith founded religions based on lies and bulldung as well. Why should we have to rely on THEIR sacred texts to debunk them when we can pull skeletons out of the closets of the prophets so easily?

Joseph Smith was an ignant liar and a poor writer, L. Ron was a con artist, and Muhammad was a pedophile. Shert's threads should be moved to the False Religions and Cults forum.

[shert]

Re: Moon God

Saying "SO!!" is not responding to a point.

What is the origin of the crescent moon in Islam?

let me copy/paste myself again regarding the "SO!!" part that is so hard for you to understand:

" The "SO" parts above is asking you for more clarifications about these observations you made."

If the above quote is so hard for you to understand, then let me be more clear:

Be more specific about your observation. You cannot observe something and jump to a totally different conclusion, like, you use the moon to determine ramdan, therefore you worship the moon!!!

Go in details please. So, what if we use the moon to determine the month cycles?? Based on what law that we worship the moon??


As for you other question.
I am still researching the origin of the moon being used as an Islamic symbol. Most of the leads and articles I have found said, that the crescent moon was introduced as a symbol for the Ottomon empire. They used it on their flag, therefore, the crescent moon was put on every property of the Ottomon empire including Mosques.
I have visited multiple mosques here in Saudi Arabia, some of them had the crescent moon, some of them not. Some had different symbols like squares, some had three different sized globes on top of each others, and some Arabic writings on it, and some had none.
That all indicates that these symbols represent nothing but decorations.

[shert]

Re: Moon God

Ramadan begins with the physical sighting of the moon, not an exact date.
BUT THE SIGHTING OF THE MOON.

You finally got it. As I have said, the moon is used to determine the months cycle. So, Ramadan doesn't beging/end on a specific date, but the moon, because the moon determines the month cycles.

Is that clear enough??

No.
And what kind of question is that? It's so totally besides the point.
The cross is a symbol of our faith because Jesus was CRUCIFED, that is put on a cross!

WHY IS THE MOON A SYMBOL OF ISLAM, HOWEVER?

We chose the moon as a symbol, and you decide that we worship the moon.
You chose the cross as a symbol, but you decide that you don't worship the cross.

You are being selective here buddy.
you are saying that we worship something just because its our symbol.
But you say that you don't worship the symbol you are using.

I see.
So it's not assocatied with Islam at all, after all, you only use one as your symbol.

For no reason whatsoever?

As of my research about the crescent symbol, it is originated by the ottomon empire as a symbol. Not as a symbol of faith. It is just a symbol.

Ahh.. So that's why you use the moon as a symbol, instead of all the other MILLIONS of things he would have created?
Great explanation!

I never said that. Great job lying. Here is what I said, and I quote the question you asked and the answer:

"
How is that? Just what does "allah" have to do with the moon, I wonder?
old

The only thing the moon has to do with Allah, is that Allah is the creator of everything, including the moon.
"
Here is what you have concluded, and I quote:
"
Ahh.. So that's why you use the moon as a symbol, instead of all the other MILLIONS of things he would have created?
Great explanation!
"

How did you reach this conclusion??



No, but it will prove to me what I already know: That you mudslimes are vandals and barbarians.

Yeah, we are so barbarians that our God orders us to kill Infants, men, women, sucklings, ox, donkeys, ass, camels.



Let's see:
The Kaba is built by Ibraham, it was a holy place before/after Islam.
Praying towards Mecca (the Kaba) EXACTLY as the pagans did.
Nope, Arabs knew the value of Mecca, so they put their idols there, and they prayed to their idols. Other arabs prayed to their other idols that are not toward Mecca.
Trying to touch/kiss the stone of Kaba EXACTLY as the pagans did.
Nope, Pagans didn't do that.
Making a pilgrimage to Mecca atleast once in your life EXACTLY as the pagans did.
Pagans came to see the idols. We are there to practice what God ordered us to do. Which is part of what happened to Ibraham and Ishmael.
Throwing rocks at sticks meant to represent the devil at Mecca, EXACTLY as the pagans did.
Nope, Pagans didn't do that. I dare to prove it.

And not to mention, you share the same symbol with those pagans too:
The crescent moon.

I guess thats what are discussing here, which is still not proven.

Yes, no similarites whatsoever.

The only similarities is the place of Mecca. All rituals are different

I am saying that modern muslims doesn't know what their religion come from, nor what they worship.

I guess thats what you are trying to show me here, and you are doing a pretty poor job. All I have seen is poor, or stupid, observations.

I've wrote every single word myself.
False accusation.



See above.

Let me show you a piece of your dishonesty here:
here is the link: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...?t=2847&page=2

Here is what I said:
"If a Saudi judges Americans by his own beliefs and cultures, then all Americans are pigs!! Which is wrong, because everyone follows different beliefs and cultures."

Here is what you copy/paste and commented on:
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by shert
If a Saudi judges Americans by his own beliefs and cultures, then all Americans are pigs!!

And thanks for proving yet again that Islam is a religion of "peace and tolerance". old
"

That is exactly what False Christians are doing to the Bible and you seem to be really good at it.

You haven't answered a single thing yet..

Scroll above and read my answers, you are the one who chose to ignore them, so you don't have to reply to them.

Only made accusations.

I answered your questions, and I made accusations and the proof is above.

I hope you read the red part and respond to it, and not write the same thing over and over.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Moon God

You finally got it. As I have said, the moon is used to determine the months cycle. So, Ramadan doesn't beging/end on a specific date, but the moon, because the moon determines the month cycles.
Is that clear enough??

You're once again dodging the question, just why is the cycle of the moon important?
Instead of a date?

We chose the moon as a symbol, and you decide that we worship the moon.

No.
But because you have exactly the same rites and symbol as the pagans who did.

You chose the cross as a symbol, but you decide that you don't worship the cross.
You are being selective here buddy.

No.
Read what I wrote AGAIN:

"The cross is a symbol of our faith because Jesus was CRUCIFED, that is put on a cross!
WHY IS THE MOON A SYMBOL OF ISLAM, HOWEVER?"

As of my research about the crescent symbol, it is originated by the ottomon empire as a symbol. Not as a symbol of faith. It is just a symbol.

And just WHY did you choose it as a symbol?
Stop dodging this question.

We chose a cross because Jesus was crucified.
You chose a moon because...?

I never said that. Great job lying. Here is what I said, and I quote the question you asked and the answer:

So you didn't say allah created everything?

How did you reach this conclusion??

You say (I paraphrase): "allah created everything, that's the only thing the moon has to do with him."

Thus, why did you pick just the Moon to symbolize your faith?
There must be other things to use, wouldn't it?

Yeah, we are so barbarians that our God orders us to kill Infants, men, women, sucklings, ox, donkeys, ass, camels.

No, it's satan who orders you to kill them.
In our case, it's God who orders us.

The Kaba is built by Ibraham, it was a holy place before/after Islam.

The Kaba was a "holy place" (to you maybe, but not to God, as it has always been abomination to Him.) before Islam yes, a place to worship the moon and some other false gods.

"Ibrahim" (you mean Abraham, yes?) did NOT build the Kaba.
He never even set foot in Saudi Arabia.

And if you mean someone else, then why should I care?
The Kaba was not built to God, but to idols.

Pagans came to see the idols. We are there to practice what God ordered us to do. Which is part of what happened to Ibraham and Ishmael.

Pagans did all the rites you did.
And God did not order you to do any of those rites, that was satan, if anyone except his own delusions gave Muhammed orders.

Nope, Pagans didn't do that. I dare to prove it.

And not to mention, you share the same symbol with those pagans too:
The crescent moon.
I guess thats what are discussing here, which is still not proven.

But it is, we have even posted pictures of statues of "moon gods", with crescent moons on them for you..
You're being pretty pathetic in your desperate denial.

The only similarities is the place of Mecca. All rituals are different

So you say.. But without any evidence whatsoever.

I guess thats what you are trying to show me here, and you are doing a pretty poor job. All I have seen is poor, or stupid, observations.

That's because you are in denial.

Let me show you a piece of your dishonesty here:
here is the link: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...?t=2847&page=2
Here is what I said:
"If a Saudi judges Americans by his own beliefs and cultures, then all Americans are pigs!! Which is wrong, because everyone follows different beliefs and cultures."
Here is what you copy/paste and commented on:
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by shert
If a Saudi judges Americans by his own beliefs and cultures, then all Americans are pigs!!
And thanks for proving yet again that Islam is a religion of "peace and tolerance".
"
That is exactly what False Christians are doing to the Bible and you seem to be really good at it.
You haven't answered a single thing yet..
Scroll above and read my answers, you are the one who chose to ignore them, so you don't have to reply to them.
Only made accusations.
I answered your questions, and I made accusations and the proof is above.

What are you talking about?
In the quotes you gave here, and the link.. I simply answered to you.

Where did I copy and paste? I QUOTED YOU, just as you do with me.
Besides (even if I would have), I'm not even talking about some other thread, I'm talking about THIS thread.
I have not copied & pasted a single thing here.

But I suppose you mudslimes like to portray yourselves as some kind of victims..
Even though you are so powerful as nations and as a people, because you have the support of such a powerful god!

That's why all Islamic countries are so very developed.
And why you never get OWNED by every non-Islamic country out there.

I hope you read the red part and respond to it, and not write the same thing over and over.

I've read it all, but you still haven't answered anything.
Your replies pretty much consists of "SOOO!" in various variants.

[shert]

Re: Moon God

You're once again dodging the question, just why is the cycle of the moon important?
Instead of a date?

Let me say what I know here about this:
There are two kinds of years. A year where the earth rotates around the sun, which gave us Jan to Dec. And a year where the moon circles earth, which is the system Arabs and Chinese use.

We chose the moon system, you guys chose the Sun system.
Why did we choose the moon system?? I don't know.
Why did you choose the Sun system?? I don't know.
Is that based on who we/you worship?? I don't think so.

No.
But because you have exactly the same rites and symbol as the pagans who did.

As I said before, the rituals are different.

No.
Read what I wrote AGAIN:

"The cross is a symbol of our faith because Jesus was CRUCIFED, that is put on a cross!
WHY IS THE MOON A SYMBOL OF ISLAM, HOWEVER?"


And just WHY did you choose it as a symbol?
Stop dodging this question.

We chose a cross because Jesus was crucified.
You chose a moon because...?

I have no idea why the moon was chosen, but I know that it has no value whatsoever. As I mentioned before, I am ready to disrespect it. And you guys failed to provide any koran or Hadith stating the value of the moon. I even dare to quote any Muslim, whether a scholar or little kid, that states the value of the moon as a God.

So you didn't say allah created everything?



You say (I paraphrase): "allah created everything, that's the only thing the moon has to do with him."

Thus, why did you pick just the Moon to symbolize your faith?

I never said the moon is symbol of my faith, let me copy/paste myself again:
"As of my research about the crescent symbol, it is originated by the ottomon empire as a symbol. Not as a symbol of faith. It is just a symbol."

There must be other things to use, wouldn't it?

If we chose the Sun, you guys would say we worship the Sun. And you would say "WHY THE SUN", if the symbol was the Globe, you would say "WHY THE GLOBE, sure there are other things to use??"

No, it's satan who orders you to kill them.
In our case, it's God who orders us.

YEAH YEAH YEAH BACK TO MAMA SAID SO.


The Kaba was a "holy place" (to you maybe, but not to God, as it has always been abomination to Him.) before Islam yes, a place to worship the moon and some other false gods.

"Ibrahim" (you mean Abraham, yes?) did NOT build the Kaba.
He never even set foot in Saudi Arabia.

Based on your Bible. The book that I don't believe in.

And if you mean someone else, then why should I care?
The Kaba was not built to God, but to idols.

Kaba was built by Abraham, as he was ordered to build it by God.

Pagans did all the rites you did.
And God did not order you to do any of those rites, that was satan, if anyone except his own delusions gave Muhammed orders.

YEAH YEAH YEAH BACK TO MAMA SAID SO.

But it is, we have even posted pictures of statues of "moon gods", with crescent moons on them for you..
You're being pretty pathetic in your desperate denial.

I will re-look at these pictures and get back to you later.

So you say.. But without any evidence whatsoever.



That's because you are in denial.



What are you talking about?
In the quotes you gave here, and the link.. I simply answered to you.

Where did I copy and paste? I QUOTED YOU, just as you do with me.

Miss quoted me. you quoted part of what I said.

Besides (even if I would have), I'm not even talking about some other thread, I'm talking about THIS thread.

This thread or other threads, a person who is dishonest in one thread, could do it in other threads.

I have not copied & pasted a single thing here.

But I suppose you mudslimes like to portray yourselves as some kind of victims..
Even though you are so powerful as nations and as a people, because you have the support of such a powerful god!

That's why all Islamic countries are so very developed.
And why you never get OWNED by every non-Islamic country out there.

LoL, thats why your GODLY GWB was in Saudi Arabia holding hands with our King and kissing our King



I've read it all, but you still haven't answered anything.
Your replies pretty much consists of "SOOO!" in various variants.

Thats because you make no sense in your arguments that I have to ask for more clarifications.

That answers your points.

[Pastor Rune Enoe]

Re: Moon God

SalvationSeeker: "Ibrahim" (you mean Abraham, yes?) did NOT build the Kaba.
He never even set foot in Saudi Arabia.

Shert: Based on your Bible. The book that I don't believe in.

[. . .]Kaba was built by Abraham, as he was ordered to build it by God.

Last time I checked my Holy King James Bible 1611, it didn't say anything about Abraham worshipping rocks or building heathen temples.

You sand-people are supposed to believe in the Old Testament. You can't just say you believe in Abraham and Jesus - and then make up some comic book characters, who have nothing except their names in common with the real article.

Abraham is only described in the Old Testament. If you don't believe in the Old Testament, you're not talking about Abraham, you're talking about a figment of your own imagination.

SalvationSeeker: And God did not order you to do any of those rites, that was satan, if anyone except his own delusions gave Muhammed orders.

Shert: YEAH YEAH YEAH BACK TO MAMA SAID SO.

No, it's back to your false prophet said so. Mohammed made several verses that he later regretted having made, and then he claimed that these "satanic verses" had been inspired by Satan. That's a wonderful prophet you've got there, who doesn't know the difference between his own god and Satan.

That just proves to me that your entire Quran was written by Satan.

Case in point: Allah, the moon-god, had three children with the sun-god, so the Quran pays tribute to the three daughters of your moon-god:

[. . .] Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza, And Manat, the third, the last?
These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.
What! for you the males and for Him the females! This indeed is an unjust division! (an-Najm 53:19-22)

Later on, Mohammed decided that the part I bolded was inspired by Satan and so he deleted it again. By following his own logic, he should have trashed the whole damn book.