Salutations!

[Stella LaForte]

Good evening to all gathered here! I come here as an atheist, and I'd love it if someone gave me a good arguement for conversion. You know the story. If I feel what you say is compelling evidence, I'd be more than delighted to join your ranks.
Oh, and also- I shall accept any and all questions from you lovelies! Go on, hit me with your best shot.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Salutations!

Didn't bother to read the Noobs please read this before posting thread did you. No of course not, you're an atheist which means you're above any rules you don't like.

Let me quote part of it for you...

This is not a debate forum. The purpose of this site is to praise and glorify the Lord, Jesus Christ. It is a place for Christians to fellowship and worship. The goal of the Landover Baptist Church forum is to draw people to Jesus Christ because Scripture confirms that salvation comes only through Him.

Luke 6:22 tells us that because we preach the True doctrine of Jesus, men shall hate us and call us evil. So naturally, we expect that folks will get their feathers ruffled by some of the things they have to say, and they will come on here to argue with us. Perhaps we have said something that upset you. Maybe it was something I said. If so, then I am sorry that you are upset, but I do not apologize for what I have said. My words and thoughts come from the Holy Scriptures. I didn't write the Bible -- God did. So if my words upset you, then you don't have a problem with me -- you have a problem with God.

We tend to get two types of dissenters here. Some are calm and reasonable folks who are capable of rational discussion. I personally enjoy discussing religious topics with this sort of person. Others, however, are angry trolls who are just here to flame us. If you are here to flame us, please read this first.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

On the contrary, I read the document in its entirety. I ask you to refrain from making such assumptions based of mere paradigms, the veracity of which is doubtful. Now, might I quote your quote?

"We tend to get two types of dissenters here. Some are calm and reasonable folks who are capable of rational discussion. I personally enjoy discussing religious topics with this sort of person. Others, however, are angry trolls who are just here to flame us. If you are here to flame us, please read this first."

I believe I fit under the first category- I am a calm, reasonable person perfectly capable of rational discussion, and the creator of that post said that he "enjoys discussing religious topics with this kind of person." Now, forgive me for any confusion, if you will. I merely asked of you to give me reasons for God, for personally, I have difficulties in faith. I simply presented the fellows here with the oppurtunity to ask questions of one with a differing perspective of things, not to cause dissent, but to give them a greater perspective themselves or to further enforce their preexisting beliefs. I have no intentions to cause any sort of strife.

Hope that cleared things up!

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Salutations!

Have you tried the

search function?

Really if you read that thread in its entirety, it sure didn't sink in.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

Not as of yet, but I did read this: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=5610

My understanding was that although atheists may spout all the propaganda they want, the Christians here shall not be swayed. However, I have no intentions of spouting propoganda or swaying anyone, as I have previously stated. So might I inquire as to what you believe I have misunderstood?

[Nobar King]

Re: Salutations!

I assume that you're not concerned about your mortal soul spending eternity being tortured in hell. The only other argument that remains is that you could spend eternity with our Father in Heaven. Doesn't that sound better than being eaten by worms?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Salutations!

I come here as an atheist blah blah

..I am a calm, reasonable person mumbo jumbo deleted

That's the first time I've heard a demon possessed person called "calm" or "reasonable"

MARK 5
1 And they came ouer vnto the other side of the sea, into the countrey of the Gadarenes.
2 And when hee was come out of the ship, immediatly there met him out of the tombes, a man with an vncleane spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs, and no man could binde him, no not with chaines:
4 Because that hee had bene often bound with fetters and chaines, and the chaines had bene plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And alwayes night and day, hee was in the mountaines, and in the tombes, crying, and cutting himselfe with stones.

Atheists are all demon-possessed.

I JOHN 4
1 Beloued, beleeue not euery spirit, but trie the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the spirit of God: euery spirit that confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God.
3 And euery Spirit that confesseth not that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God: and this is that spirit of Antichrist, whereof you haue heard, that it should come, and euen now already is it in the world.

Miss LaForte is either having blackouts or lying.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

I assume that you're not concerned about your mortal soul spending eternity being tortured in hell. The only other argument that remains is that you could spend eternity with our Father in Heaven. Doesn't that sound better than being eaten by worms?

Let me phrase it this way. I am an atheist, and I have yet to have somebody present to me an arguement that proves the existence of a god. I do get this many times, though:

How do you know God exists? Because the Bible says so.
How do you know the Bible is true? Because the Bible is infallible.
How do you know the Bible is infallible? Because it is God's word.

And thusly, the circle opens once more, an endless cycle with no beginning. The people that hold their faiths, that sacrifice their very earthly lives for this circular logic will never cease to amaze me. But I simply want somebody to present to me something, anything viable that isn't circular in nature. Now, let me have a chance:

Every living being has the potential to become enlightened, someone who has completely purified his or her mind of all faults and limitations and has brought all good qualities to perfection. Our mind is like a cloudy sky, in essence clear and pure but overcast by the clouds of delusions. Just as the thickest clouds eventually disperse, so too even the heaviest delusions can be removed from our mind. Delusions such as hatred, greed, and ignorance are not an intrinsic part of the mind. If we apply the appropriate methods they can be completely eliminated, and we shall experience the supreme happiness of full enlightenment. Having attained enlightenment we shall have all the necessary qualities – universal love and compassion, omniscient wisdom and boundless spiritual power – to lead all living beings to the same exalted state.

I know that that is the way to any truth, no matter how depressing or nihilistic it may be.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

[QUOTE=MitzaLizalor;663859] That's the first time I've heard a demon possessed person called "calm" or "reasonable"

QUOTE]

In that instance, I reccomend you read the "Noobs please read this before posting" section that the creator of this forum advised the lot of us to read. I'll link you to the section that says that dissenters may be calm and reasonable. It's in the first paragraph here: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...=5610#Atheists

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Salutations!

I think this cartoon pretty much sums up the "I need proof of God" argument.



Basically you have to put in the effort. Jesus is knocking, he sent you here, but you are being thick necked and hard headed and refusing to let Jesus into your heart.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I suggest you read Job Chapters 38-42, they speak specifically about how much of a right we have to question God.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: Salutations!

Hello Ms. Stella. I am sorry to hear that you've chosen to deny the mountains of evidence that proves the existence of God beyond a shadow of a doubt, but since you are being polite, I will be more than happy to show you the error of your ways.

Now, I see that you seem to think that using the Bible to prove itself is circular reasoning. I admit, when somebody shows me a book that says that its subject matter is correct, I'm inclined to be a little skeptical myself! However, the Bible isn't just one book, its actually sixty-six books (well, some are books and some are epistles, but you get the jist). The curious thing about these sixty-six books is that they all agree that God exists. I mean, if they didn't, they wouldn't be in the Bible, right? Furthermore, not once in those sixty-six books does the claim that God doesn't exist ever show up, which means that the Bible is totally consistent with itself.

Now, since sixty-six totally independent sources (The books of the Bible) agree that God exists, its reasonable to assume that the other information presented in it is totally accurate and inerrant. Just like anybody would accept an argument from a firearms expert about a subject they would know about, such as ballistics, it makes sense to accept the instructions for salvation laid out by the best spiritual expert there is; God. This is known formally in philosophy as an Argument from Authority, and I don't think anybody could claim to be more of an expert about spirituality (or anything, really) than God.

So, are you ready to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior now?

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

I think this cartoon pretty much sums up the "I need proof of God" argument.



Basically you have to put in the effort. Jesus is knocking, he sent you here, but you are being thick necked and hard headed and refusing to let Jesus into your heart.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I suggest you read Job Chapters 38-42, they speak specifically about how much of a right we have to question God.

That cartoon is slightly inaccurate. If I - or any atheist, for that matter - saw a constellation in the sky that spelled that out, I'd either think someone slipped me some manner of illicit drugs or I was hallucinating. If neither turned out to be true, then of course I'd believe in a higher power... and why? This is the key, here: because there could be no other possible logical explanation for that phenomena. And nobody could ever discover such a thing. This is different, in many instances, from religion.

Many ancient religions, Christianity included, used deities to rationalise away natural phenomena. In the instance of Christianity, and example is the rainbow being a sign of a covenant with God, whereas now we have another rational, testable explanation: The light is first refracted entering the surface of the raindrop, reflected off the back of the drop, and again refracted as it leaves the drop. The overall effect is that the incoming light is reflected back over a wide range of angles, producing the visible spectrum of electromagnetic radiation.

Again, I'm sorry to say, the words contained in a book of circular logic fail to entice me.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Salutations!

That cartoon is slightly inaccurate. If I - or any atheist, for that matter - saw a constellation in the sky that spelled that out, I'd either think someone slipped me some manner of illicit drugs or I was hallucinating.

Precisely, if God gave you straight up evidence, you would still deny this. Do you think he doesn't know this? So why would he even bother to try?

If neither turned out to be true, then of course I'd believe in a higher power... and why? This is the key, here: because there could be no other possible logical explanation for that phenomena. And nobody could ever discover such a thing. This is different, in many instances, from religion.

You already said that you would just think you had taken too many drugs.


Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.


Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Many ancient religions, Christianity included, used deities to rationalise away natural phenomena. In the instance of Christianity, and example is the rainbow being a sign of a covenant with God, whereas now we have another rational, testable explanation: The light is first refracted entering the surface of the raindrop, reflected off the back of the drop, and again refracted as it leaves the drop. The overall effect is that the incoming light is reflected back over a wide range of angles, producing the visible spectrum of electromagnetic radiation.

Again, I'm sorry to say, the words contained in a book of circular logic fail to entice me.[/QUOTE]

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

Hello Ms. Stella. I am sorry to hear that you've chosen to deny the mountains of evidence that proves the existence of God beyond a shadow of a doubt, but since you are being polite, I will be more than happy to show you the error of your ways.

Now, I see that you seem to think that using the Bible to prove itself is circular reasoning. I admit, when somebody shows me a book that says that its subject matter is correct, I'm inclined to be a little skeptical myself! However, the Bible isn't just one book, its actually sixty-six books (well, some are books and some are epistles, but you get the jist). The curious thing about these sixty-six books is that they all agree that God exists. I mean, if they didn't, they wouldn't be in the Bible, right? Furthermore, not once in those sixty-six books does the claim that God doesn't exist ever show up, which means that the Bible is totally consistent with itself.

Now, since sixty-six totally independent sources (The books of the Bible) agree that God exists, its reasonable to assume that the other information presented in it is totally accurate and inerrant. Just like anybody would accept an argument from a firearms expert about a subject they would know about, such as ballistics, it makes sense to accept the instructions for salvation laid out by the best spiritual expert there is; God. This is known formally in philosophy as an Argument from Authority, and I don't think anybody could claim to be more of an expert about spirituality (or anything, really) than God.

So, are you ready to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior now?

Might I inquire as to what mountains of evidence you are speaking of? I've been unable to acquire any, myself. And thank you for recognising me.

And I'm afraid the argument of the Bible being sixty-six books is invalid, because the Bible is simply a collection of stories put together that all speak of the same thing. An anthology, per se, of the works regarding the Christian/Jewish god at the time. And the Bible is definitely not consistant with itself, anyway - here's one regarding who the father of Joseph is, as an example.
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

And authenticity is not decided by numbers. Why, if sixty-six people were to gather outside right now and say that the sky was purple, they'd still be wrong. The same goes for the Bible. A fair load of the things contained within are, quite frankly, completely nonsensical. For instance, that gem about curing leprosy by killing birds always sticks out to me.

Leviticus 14:1-9: Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "This shall be the law of the leper for the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought to the priest. And the priest shall go out of the camp, and the priest shall examine him; and indeed, if the leprosy is healed in the leper, then the priest shall command to take for him who is to be cleansed two living and clean birds, cedar wood, scarlet, and hyssop. And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water. As for the living bird, he shall take it, the cedar wood and the scarlet and the hyssop, and dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water. And he shall sprinkle it seven times on him who is to be cleansed from the leprosy, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose in the open field. He who is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean. After that he shall come into the camp, and shall stay outside his tent seven days. But on the seventh day he shall shave all the hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows; all his hair he shall shave off. He shall wash his clothes and wash his body in water, and he shall be clean."

See what I mean? This would be the equivalent of a gun instructor teaching me that I could shoot someone with a watermelon by inserting it into a pistol!

Sorry, but I still see too many glaring fallacies to accept religion.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: Salutations!

Precisely, if God gave you straight up evidence, you would still deny this. Do you think he doesn't know this? So why would he even bother to try?


You already said that you would just think you had taken too many drugs.


Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.


Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Many ancient religions, Christianity included, used deities to rationalise away natural phenomena. In the instance of Christianity, and example is the rainbow being a sign of a covenant with God, whereas now we have another rational, testable explanation: The light is first refracted entering the surface of the raindrop, reflected off the back of the drop, and again refracted as it leaves the drop. The overall effect is that the incoming light is reflected back over a wide range of angles, producing the visible spectrum of electromagnetic radiation.

Again, I'm sorry to say, the words contained in a book of circular logic fail to entice me.

[/QUOTE]

Ah, nonono. You are twisting my words. In the event of a constellation spelling out such messages before my eyes, there is still a logical explanation: someone slipped me drugs. If that possibility is ruled out, then the only logical conclusion would have to be that a higher power existed.

As I demonstrated with the example you did not respond to in the latter half of my retort, it is only when there are no logical explanations that the possibility of a higher power arises.

Hope that cleared things up.