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  • Wrong Again Floyd
    Unsaved Trash
    Spawn of convicts who has signed up twice
    • Jan 2007
    • 29

    #1

    What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

    Before you go clicking that ban button: I assure you that I am not going to be disrespectful or anything like that. I am merely trying to understand your perspective on things and have an intelligent discussion about this topic. I will not flame or anything like that.

    I've been listening to Rock and Roll since I was 3 years old. Since then: I have developed an interest in Heavy Metal and other rock genres such as Progressive. Heavy Metal: I can understand christians having a problem with: Heavy Metal seems to have a problem with christians (That said: That's only the Black\Death Metal subgenre of Metal, the majority of Metal has nothing to do with christianity. Or anything else for that matter), however the only thing Rock and Roll has in common with Metal is that they use electric guitars.


    Today: I am a 20 year old university student studying Media Studies. In other words; I'm looking at how the Media effects Society as a whole. This is why other people's perspectives on topics like this one fascinates me.

    Firstly: Let's look at the Rock And Roll sound. Half of it is Electric Guitar (Clean\Overdriven or Distorted) and the other half is Acoustic Guitar. It's loud and energising, encouraging people to get up and "Rock out" and have a good time. Drums and Bass are often buried in the mix and are typically only used to support the guitars and vocalist. The Drums are normally a kit of 1 Kickdrum, 1 Snare, 2-4 Toms and 2-4 Cymbals.

    Some people complain that the sound itself is offensive. Be it the guitars or the vocals. Personally: I believe that this does not make Rock Music (For the lack of a better word) "evil" to listen to. Merely it is personal preference. There are some vocalists that make me cringe every time they open their mouths to sing: This does not necessarily make him a puppet of sin.

    Other people claim that the drums should not be used because pagan tribes used them in their rituals. In my opinion: That's like saying we shouldn't wear clothes because after all: The KKK wore clothes. There is a saying that a rock band is only as good as the drummer and this is true: The drums are pretty much there only to keep the band in time and playing together.

    And since I'm a lead guitarist: I cant help taking a stab at bassist. Nobody complains about bassists because after all: Nobody listens to them anyway

    There are also claims that the vocalist screaming is not proper. I argue that it's just another technique and can be used amazingly well to express emotion. Personally I hate bands that do nothing but scream (Despite popular misconception: Not every Heavy Metal band has a screaming vocalist) however: A well-placed scream can really make you "feel" the song.

    Despite all this; I'd like to point out that these things combined make a sound. That's all it is. Some people find this sound good fun to listen to: Others dont. I wouldn't say that hearing a jackhammer will convert you to satanism or a car driving past will make you think evil thoughts: So what is it about rock music that christians have a problem with?

    The only thing left is the lyrics. There's a saying: "Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll" which are 3 of the 5 most covered topics of a Rock song (For reference: These are Sex, Drugs, Rock and Roll, Love and Nothing).

    Now I can understand why people have a problem with Sexual lyrics as some may find them crude. However: This is commonly linked with a love theme.

    I do not understand why people have a problem with lyrics concerning drugs. There are just as many rock songs talking about the evils of drug abuse as there are talking about how much fun drugs are. For example: Metallica: Master Of Puppets talks about how drugs can consume and destroy your life. Listening to a song saying "DRUGS ARE GREAT!" is not going to make you go out and buy kilograms of LSD and start a speed lab. My favourite all-time band is Pink Floyd: Their early stuff is some of the most psychadelic stuff you can get and I've never even had a puff of a cigarette.

    Lyrics concerning the genre itself are just encouragement for the audience to "get into" the music a bit and have some fun. Be it to dance, air-guitar, headbang, scream along to the lyrics: Whatever. What exactly is wrong with having a song to get the crowd worked up a bit? I've seen a LOT of Baptist churches use the same technique.

    There are more songs about love than anything else in the world. Black Sabbath even did a Love song (but they also did a Pro-Christian song. They're as evil as a huntsman spider: Look like they'd eat your soul but are more content to just bum around). God is Love, therefore a smart-aleck could argue that these Love songs are technically worship songs. Regardless: I dont think there's anything wrong with expressing your affection for somebody.

    Finally there's songs about absolutely nothing in particular. Look at practically any Deep Purple song or half of System Of A Down's catalogue and then you'll see what I mean. These songs have lyrics just for the sake of having them. I remember an interview with (I think it was...) Zakk Wylde from Black Label Society. The interviewer asked: "Where do you get your ideas for lyrics?" and Mustaine replied: "Lyrics?"

    In summary of lyrics: 2 out of the 5 most popular categories that Rock Lyrics are about I can understand people possibly being offended by. However these are only some of the themes. There's also Anti-War, Peace or just flat-out story-telling like Led Zeppelin's Stairway To Heaven. Admittedly there are also themes about hate and intolerance: But let's not deny that a lot of Fundamental Christians promote the hatred of Homosexuals and sometimes Islam.

    Despite all that talk about lyrics: There's one quote from the brilliant Frank Zappa which summarises my beliefs on the effect of lyrics. He said:

    There are more Love Songs than anything else in the world. If lyrics could make us do anything: We'd all love each other. - Frank Zappa.

    In summary: I do not understand why people (mostly christians) find Rock Music the bane of society and the root of all evil. I noticed that this community has a lot of fundamental\hard-core christians on here so I was hoping somebody could explain what it is about rock music that is so evil.
  • Elfen Lied
    Landover Habilitation and Therapy Unit (For those unfit to mix with the normal public)
    • Jan 2007
    • 3

    #2
    Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

    Because Jesus is not praised enough in "rawk" "songs."

    Comment

    • SalvationSeeker
      True Christian™ Theologian
      Forum Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 3892

      #3
      Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

      The lyrics encourage sin and worldly pursuits;
      And they do not glorify our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ.
      If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: But if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.
      A foolish woman is clamorous: She is simple, and knoweth nothing.
      Proverbs 9:12-13

      Comment

      • Wrong Again Floyd
        Unsaved Trash
        Spawn of convicts who has signed up twice
        • Jan 2007
        • 29

        #4
        Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

        Rightio: So you'll ostracise an entire genre of art just because some of it promotes sin?

        Quick question: How much TV do you watch? How many hours a day do you spend on the internet? How much media are you exposed to that do not encourage sin\promote worldly pursuits\do not praise Jesus?

        I ask because it's hypocritical to ignore rock music\call it "evil" if you expose yourself to the same stuff in other media formats. Besides as I said: There are more love songs in rock than anything else. God is love and thus they could technically be regarded as a love song.

        In regards to story-telling songs: Jesus told Parables. They weren't worship-stories, they were just stories that had a moral to them. Bob Dylan's the Hurricane had a moral that you should not judge somebody based on the colour of their skin. Stairway To Heaven says you cant buy your way into heaven. The Pink Floyd Concept album: The Wall shows how harmful it can be to isolate yourself form the world. These songs may not be christian-based, but they are all morals that we can apply to our daily lives to be better human beings.

        Comment

        • Jesus is Lord
          Devout seeker of the Truth™
          True Christian™
          • Sep 2006
          • 639

          #5
          Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

          Originally posted by Floyd View Post
          Rightio: So you'll ostracise an entire genre of art just because some of it promotes sin?
          Exactly. If it promotes sin it is bad ad it leads people away from GOD.

          Originally posted by Floyd View Post
          Quick question: How much TV do you watch?
          0

          Originally posted by Floyd View Post
          How many hours a day do you spend on the internet?
          A good bit but only on Landover and other GODLY sites.

          Originally posted by Floyd View Post
          How much media are you exposed to that do not encourage sin\promote worldly pursuits\do not praise Jesus?
          None.

          Originally posted by Floyd View Post
          I ask because it's hypocritical to ignore rock music\call it "evil" if you expose yourself to the same stuff in other media formats. Besides as I said: There are more love songs in rock than anything else. God is love and thus they could technically be regarded as a love song.
          Chapter and verse on GOD being love, please. GOD tells us in a number of places HE is not a GOD of love.

          Originally posted by Floyd View Post
          In regards to story-telling songs: Jesus told Parables. They weren't worship-stories, they were just stories that had a moral to them. Bob Dylan's the Hurricane had a moral that you should not judge somebody based on the colour of their skin. Stairway To Heaven says you cant buy your way into heaven. The Pink Floyd Concept album: The Wall shows how harmful it can be to isolate yourself form the world. These songs may not be christian-based, but they are all morals that we can apply to our daily lives to be better human beings.
          A rock song containing moral? HAHAHAHAHA!!! The only morals come from GOD and rock music is of Satan.
          The Big-Bang: GOD spoke and, BANG, the universe was formed.
          Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
          sigpic

          Comment

          • Wrong Again Floyd
            Unsaved Trash
            Spawn of convicts who has signed up twice
            • Jan 2007
            • 29

            #6
            Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

            Hate to be close-minded...

            John Lennon wrote a song called "Give Peace a Chance". The lyrics are quite simply:

            "All we are saying, is give peace a chance."

            In other words: Stop fighting wars, stop fighting each other, stop hating each other, stop killing each other, stop descriminating against each other. What is immoral about that?

            Exactly. If it promotes sin it is bad ad it leads people away from GOD.
            The church I was a part of turned hundreds of people away from God. Are you going to ostracise christianity because a church turned people away from God? It's the same logic.

            Comment

            • Virginia Day Templeton
              Christ's Battle Axe
               
              • Dec 2006
              • 2827

              #7
              Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

              Originally posted by Floyd View Post
              Stairway To Heaven says you cant buy your way into heaven.
              I'm really glad you chose this example, Floyd. Sure, on the surface the song appears to be a mildly offensive, heretical rant against tithing sprinkled with the pseudo-mythology of that fat old Catlicker J.R.R. Tolkien... but it hides a far darker message. When it is played in reverse, the following verse can be clearly distinguished:

              'So here's to my Sweet Satan.
              The other's little path
              Would make me sad,
              Whose power is faith.
              He'll give those with him 666.
              And all the evil fools,
              they know he made
              us suffer sadly.'







              And that's just a snippet; I won't post the lyrics in full here for fear of arousing the LORD's jealous wrath, but make no mistake: Jimmy Page is a Devil-worshiping demonspawned blasphemer and Jesus is trembling with glee at the thought of killing him in an exceeding brutal fashion and raising him from the dead only to cast his body into the deepest reaches of Hell, where the barbed tallywhackers of Satan's horde will pump magma into his diseased colon until it ruptures like an overenflated water balloon, over and over until the end of time. His listeners -- such as yourself -- can doubtless await an identical fate.
              Last edited by Virginia Day Templeton; 01-20-2007, 04:52 AM.
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              • SalvationSeeker
                True Christian™ Theologian
                Forum Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 3892

                #8
                Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                Originally posted by Floyd View Post
                Hate to be close-minded...

                John Lennon wrote a song called "Give Peace a Chance". The lyrics are quite simply:

                "All we are saying, is give peace a chance."

                In other words: Stop fighting wars, stop fighting each other, stop hating each other, stop killing each other, stop descriminating against each other. What is immoral about that?
                It's against God's will.
                There shall be no peace until God's new earth has been established, where righteousness shall rule.

                Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
                I came not to send peace, but a sword.
                Matthew 10:34

                The church I was a part of turned hundreds of people away from God. Are you going to ostracise christianity because a church turned people away from God? It's the same logic.
                If they told the truth then they are not the ones to blame:
                Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
                Galatians 4:16

                But if they drove them away with lies, then yes, they are the ones to blame.
                I can't tell for sure since I don't know what church you went to, nor what it taught.
                Last edited by SalvationSeeker; 01-20-2007, 04:55 AM.
                If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: But if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.
                A foolish woman is clamorous: She is simple, and knoweth nothing.
                Proverbs 9:12-13

                Comment

                • Wrong Again Floyd
                  Unsaved Trash
                  Spawn of convicts who has signed up twice
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 29

                  #9
                  Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                  Originally posted by Virginia D. Templeton View Post
                  I'm really glad you chose this example, Floyd. Sure, on the surface the song appears to be a mildly offensive, heretical rant against tithing sprinkled with the pseudo-mythology of that fat old Catlicker J.R.R. Tolkien... but it hides a far darker message. When it is played in reverse, the following verse can be clearly distinguished:

                  'So here's to my Sweet Satan.
                  The other's little path
                  Would make me sad,
                  Whose power is faith.
                  He'll give those with him 666.
                  And all the evil fools,
                  they know he made
                  us suffer sadly.'







                  And that's just a snippet; I won't post the lyrics in full here for fear of arousing the LORD's jealous wrath, but make no mistake: Jimmy Page is a Devil-worshiping demonspawned blasphemer and Jesus is trembling with glee at the thought of killing him in an exceeding brutal fashion and raising him from the dead only to cast his body into the deepest reaches of Hell, where the barbed tallywhackers of Satan's horde will pump magma into his diseased colon until it ruptures like an overenflated water balloon, over and over until the end of time. His listeners -- such as yourself -- can doubtless await an identical fate.
                  Sigh.

                  Time for a little bit of fact here.

                  Jimmy Page bought Allistar Crowley's House: FACT.
                  Allistar Crowley was a Satanist and taught his people to speak backwards: FACT.
                  Allistar Crowley called his house the Tool Shed: FACT.
                  Jimmy Page is not a Satanist: He merely had an interest in the cult. FACT.

                  I know a lot of people who are fascinated by the Nazi's. That does not make them a Nazi.

                  Now let's have a look at something shall we? That snippet that you posted when played forward states:

                  If there's a bustle in your hedgegrow; Dont be alarmed now
                  It's just a spring clean for the May Queen.
                  Yes there are two paths you can go by; but in the long run.
                  There's still time to change the road you're on.

                  Now then: If you were to say that backwards you would say:

                  Won demrala eb tnod; Worgegdeh rouy ni eltsub a s'ereht fI.

                  etc.

                  If you can construct:

                  They know he made us suffer sadly.'

                  Out of that line: Then I will claim you have a case for argument. The fact of the matter is that when you play something backwards: It does not sound like the words backwards: Instead you are hearing the phoenetics. That is why you can hear 3 S' in that sentence instead of the 2 which is in the actual line itself. The sound also warps a helluva lot distorting how some notes sound.

                  Not to mention: People hear different things. A lot of people will swear the last two words aren't "Suffer Sadly" but "Sad Satan".

                  My point? It was not put there on purpose. There is no way you can write lyrics with the intent of them being listened to backwards. How it got there is an accident or perhaps an outside force: Regardless, Jimmy Page did not put that in there on purpose.

                  However: Who the hell listens to records backwards anyway?

                  Oh and thanks for the graphic description on what God may do to Jimmy Page. Do you have any proof other than rhetoric that he is Satanic? Or if he's Christian?

                  Will rebut next post after this. Some boards have a word limit

                  Comment

                  • Wrong Again Floyd
                    Unsaved Trash
                    Spawn of convicts who has signed up twice
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 29

                    #10
                    Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                    Originally posted by SalvationSeeker View Post
                    It's against God's will.
                    There shall be no peace until God's new earth has been established, where righteousness shall rule.

                    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
                    I came not to send peace, but a sword.
                    Matthew 10:34



                    If they told the truth then they are not the ones to blame:
                    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
                    Galatians 4:16

                    But if they drove them away with lies, then yes, they are the ones to blame.
                    I can't tell for sure since I don't know what church you went to, nor what it taught.

                    Maybe John Lennon was wanting the Rapture to come hence he wanted peace on Earth. Got an argument to suggest otherwise?

                    If all rock music is evil however: What about Christian-Rock bands such as P.O.D or Antiskeptic which preach a christian message? What about the Death Metal band: "Soul Of Our Saviour" which is a group of PREISTS preaching through Death Metal? Are you saying all that is evil? Spreading the Gospel is evil?

                    If they told the truth then they are not the ones to blame:
                    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
                    Galatians 4:16

                    But if they drove them away with lies, then yes, they are the ones to blame.
                    I can't tell for sure since I don't know what church you went to, nor what it taught.
                    That's beside the point. You said you dont listen to Rock music because it can drive people away from God. Churches can drive people away from God yet you'll defend Christianity until your last breath.

                    Besides: If a Rock Song can turn you away from God: You're pretty darn faithless aren't you?

                    Comment

                    • Virginia Day Templeton
                      Christ's Battle Axe
                       
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 2827

                      #11
                      Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                      Not everyone is a True Christian™ with an iron cross emblazoned on his heart; in fact, the vast majority of people who claim to be followers of Christ are either obeying a false doctrine or teetering on the edge of atheism, and you ask if one Satanic song can ensnare the soul of such a person? Indeed it can. It's very telling that you choose to scornfully mock such lost souls instead of trying to Save them as we do.
                      Last edited by Virginia Day Templeton; 01-20-2007, 05:42 AM.
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                      • Wrong Again Floyd
                        Unsaved Trash
                        Spawn of convicts who has signed up twice
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 29

                        #12
                        Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                        What: So nobody should listen to Rock music just because a few people cant stand it?

                        Comment

                        • Virginia Day Templeton
                          Christ's Battle Axe
                           
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 2827

                          #13
                          Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                          Nobody should listen to it because God can't stand it, and Satan uses it to trap impressionable young listeners into living a wicked lifestyle that damns them to Hell. Rock musicians don't even need to encrypt their demonic messages anymore; today's decadent culture (and ever-plummeting literacy rates) practically demands that they be overt!

                          'I'm the son of rage and love
                          The Jesus of Suburbia
                          From the bible of none of the above
                          On a steady diet of soda pop and Ritalin
                          No one ever died for my sins in hell
                          As far as I can tell
                          At least the ones I got away with'


                          Fifty years ago, the lunatic who sang that would have been hanged for treason! Even a slow-witted atheist like you must acknowledge the role rock music has played in the decline of Christian morality in our society.

                          "I don't really have a life philosophy; my thing is just rebelling against pretty much organized religion. That is my main thing, because personally I think it's a crutch for people that are too weak to get through life on their own. I'm the kind of guy that says if I don't see it, then it doesn't work. And nobody can show me God."
                          —Kerry King, guitarist for Grammy-winning, Billboard Top 5 rock band Slayer
                          Last edited by Virginia Day Templeton; 01-20-2007, 06:02 AM.
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                          • Wrong Again Floyd
                            Unsaved Trash
                            Spawn of convicts who has signed up twice
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 29

                            #14
                            Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                            Originally posted by Virginia D. Templeton View Post
                            Nobody should listen to it because God can't stand it, and Satan uses it to trap impressionable young listeners into living a wicked lifestyle that damns them to Hell. Rock musicians don't even need to encrypt their demonic messages anymore; today's decadent culture (and ever-plummeting literacy rates) practically demands that they be overt!

                            'I'm the son of rage and love
                            The Jesus of Suburbia
                            From the bible of none of the above
                            On a steady diet of soda pop and Ritalin
                            No one ever died for my sins in hell
                            As far as I can tell
                            At least the ones I got away with'


                            Fifty years ago, the lunatic who sang that would have been hanged for treason! Even a slow-witted atheist like you must acknowledge the role rock music has played in the decline of Christian morality in our society.



                            —Kerry King, guitarist for Grammy-winning, Billboard Top 5 rock band Slayer
                            Who are you to say what God can and cannot stand? Show me where in the Bible it says: "THALL SHALT NOT ROCK OUT" or "THALL SHALT NOT LISTEN TO GREEN DAY OR SLAYER".

                            Secondly: Congratulations on showing your ignorance. Slayer is not a rock band: It is a Thrash Metal band and there is a massive difference. I said in my first post that I'm not going to bother touching Metal because if you're not going to accept Rock: There's no way you can accept Metal.

                            And congratulations: You can quote a band. Allow me to quote another one.


                            Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
                            Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
                            Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
                            Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

                            When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
                            Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
                            Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
                            And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

                            Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
                            If they knew you believe in God above?
                            They should realize before they criticize
                            that God is the only way to love

                            Is your mind so small that you have to fall
                            In with the pack wherever they run
                            Will you still sneer when death is near
                            And say they may as well worship the sun?

                            I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
                            I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
                            Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
                            You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve

                            Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
                            Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
                            The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
                            Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.

                            That was a song by Black Sabbath. The same band who everybody said was evil. The same band who featured Ozzy Osbourne, Tommy Iommi and Geezer Butler. For every "Immoral" song you can quote: I'll be able to find one to counter that.

                            Comment

                            • OnYourKnees
                              On Extended Furlough
                              True Christian™
                              • Nov 2006
                              • 4729

                              #15
                              Re: What exactly is wrong with Rock Music?

                              Originally posted by Floyd View Post
                              Hate to be close-minded...

                              John Lennon wrote a song called "Give Peace a Chance". The lyrics are quite simply:

                              "All we are saying, is give peace a chance."

                              In other words: Stop fighting wars, stop fighting each other, stop hating each other, stop killing each other, stop descriminating against each other. What is immoral about that?
                              What on earth makes you think that God is after peace?!

                              Have you READ the Bible, boy?

                              Exodus 15:3
                              The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

                              Exodus 17:16
                              For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.

                              Numbers 31:7
                              And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

                              The church I was a part of turned hundreds of people away from God. Are you going to ostracise christianity because a church turned people away from God? It's the same logic.
                              So you learned all about the Bible from a church that you admit turned hundreds from God?

                              Do tell. What church was this?

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