[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

I have reprimanded myself for not reading more completely before posting. As you know, it's not my way to seem critical of other, false, belief systems however far they have migrated from The Truth (assuming they were ever in contact with it at all) and Rome is a good example of this. Having reread the thread to appreciate all the posts in context, two points stand out regarding [1] Noah and [2] Christ Jesus, highlighted in SeaGreen and RoyalBlue respectively..

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Originally Posted by Romeo Rovagnati
I came back to this thread, because I've realized that I've missed some details: other prophets were migrants too. Some examples includes:

•..Noah: Built a boat to traverse the sea.

How could any two points be distinguished in a world completely covered by water? Such locations would be necessary for any traversing to be done. God is clear that the waters rose up from below as much as fell down from above, perhaps like a boat in a bathtub with the plughole working in reverse but definitely not like a reservoir's dam bursting.
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Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
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As we know, The Firmament (colloquially known as "sky") restrains a significant volume of water. Let's go woke and accept the astrologers' claim:
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a sphere of water 540,833,534,332,891,911,238,367⅞ miles across!
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all held back except for windows operated by God. So in other words like having a boat in your bathtub with reverse plughole function and the shower on. The water rises straight up. A major difference is that your toy could be assigned a location by measuring from the edge of the bath. Mount Everest could substitute for that but the problem is that Mount Everest was covered with water if it even existed beforehand and that Noah came back down more-or-less where he started from. "Traversing" from anywhere to anywhere else is completely absurd under such circumstances.
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Genesis 8:2-5 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; and the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month…were the tops of the mountains seen.
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THEN, a location could be determined but were those mountains even there beforehand? There were some, as we know from their tops having been covered, vv18-20, but regardless of how high they were it's certain that Everest was covered because no mountains were visible until the time recorded by God to inform us. This brings us to the blue section.

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Originally Posted by God

The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

When the days of her [Mary's] purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord…and to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

When they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

Luke 2:20, 21, 22, 24, 39

Colombo, San Sebastián and Thomson Bay are settlements on the islands of Ceylon, Grand Tierra del Fuego and Rottnest respectively. Travel between them is relatively straightforward. One could start in Colombo for example and go to Thomson Bay, then turn hard right and go on to San Sebastián. Mostly this would be by sea or air.

Jesus similarly had several options, in getting to Nazareth (or returning to in the case of Mary & Joseph) from Bethlehem. When He was born, after a few days, they'd all gone to Jerusalem and spent some time there. Several options exist for getting to Egypt on the way home, sea would be one, road another. Probably by road via Egypt, pausing to take in the Egyptian riviera, maybe a look at the pyramids, this is just a fancy on my part you understand, then a pleasant cruise back up to the coast near Nazareth, disembarking around modern-day Haifa. In none of these places would Jesus be any sort of migrant, neither an immigrant nor an emigrant. Exactly the same as in my other imagined journey. God gives the destinations but nobody went anywhere to actually live. It's an important distinction and worth pointing out.

Thank you.

[Adam Fag]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

• He was a ship-wreck
• He was told by God to preach
• led him to Rome

df

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

He was not,

You started off quite well. I had hopes for you. I thought "At last! That kiddy-fiddler has seen the error of his ways! He has manged to read a Bible... and then...

I came back to this thread, because I've realized that I've missed some details: other prophets were migrants too. Some examples includes:

• Adam and Eve: Both were kicked out from Eden and were forced to find a new homeland. Clearly migrants.
• Noah: Built a boat to traverse the sea. One of his passengers was his son Ham, who was the first black person. Definitely a migrant.
• Abraham: Was a guest, along with his wife and half-sister Sarah, in Egypt. Surely a migrant.
• Joseph: Became an important Egyptian when he was brought there. 100% migrant.
• Jonah: Went to Sardinia via a whale (like the one in Pinocchio). Was also a racist who later repented.
• Saint Paul: Did a long journey that eventually led him to Rome. How can he not be a migrant?

Shall I continue?

• Adam and Eve: There were no borders: you can't migrate unless there's a border.
• Noah: He was a ship-wrecked mariner.
• Abraham: He was a tourist.
• Joseph: He was kidnapped and dumped in Egypt - that's not "migration".
• Jonah: He was told by God to preach abroad. Basically he was a street-preacher on steroids. As God owns the earth, God didn't recognize borders.
• Saint Paul: Did a long journey that eventually led him to Rome. How can he not be a migrant? As long as he kept moving, he wasn't a migrant.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

No.

There are different sorts of "migrants" for example emigrants and immigrants. Clearly treating sojourners in one's land the same as natives necessitates a single legal system for all. Outmoded ecclesiastical law may be swallowed by the inept few unable to think for themselves: in no way can it be binding: Paul is an instance of this.

• Saint Paul: Did a long journey that eventually led him to Rome. How can he not be a migrant?

Because he was a Roman citizen already.

ACTS 22:25-28 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned? When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman. Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea. And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And Paul said, But I was free born.

And Paul said, But I was free born.

[Romeo Rovagnati]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

(Leviticus 19:33-34)

When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

I came back to this thread, because I've realized that I've missed some details: other prophets were migrants too. Some examples includes:

• Adam and Eve: Both were kicked out from Eden and were forced to find a new homeland. Clearly migrants.
• Noah: Built a boat to traverse the sea. One of his passengers was his son Ham, who was the first black person. Definitely a migrant.
• Abraham: Was a guest, along with his wife and half-sister Sarah, in Egypt. Surely a migrant.
• Joseph: Became an important Egyptian when he was brought there. 100% migrant.
• Jonah: Went to Sardinia via a whale (like the one in Pinocchio). Was also a racist who later repented.
• Saint Paul: Did a long journey that eventually led him to Rome. How can he not be a migrant?

Shall I continue?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

very early in Chapter 1 verse 5 we see that it says "I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon."-Song of Solomon 1:5. I do not mean to be argumentative but clearly he is saying he is a Black man.

That is not an argument, it's not even wrong. In the first place if a description reads "black but comely" and another description reads "white and ruddy" then clearly two different people are being described. The description you've pointed to is obviously not of the King and can be broken down as follows:

Song of Solomon 1

4b..The king hath brought me into his chambers:

4c..We will be glad and rejoice in thee,

4d..We will remember thy love more than wine:

4e..The upright love thee.

5a..I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem,

5b..As the tents of Kedar,

5c..As the curtains of Solomon.…

12a.While the king sitteth at his table,

12b.My spikenard sendeth forth the smell thereof.

Multiple other references confirm this in chapter one alone and the soliloquy opening chapter two is particularly poignant in this respect.

Song of Solomon 2:1-6

Handmaiden has pointed out specific comparisons less common today, except in certain circumstances, but nevertheless very expressive. The bed is green. The King is not a horse. Look for the following key words:

• I have compared. thee to
• Thou art. fair
• Our bed is. green.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

He was not, and even if He were, there is good migration (Norway) and bad migration (brown people) as Donald Trump has enlightened us recently.Jesus would be of course the best migrant EVER.

[handmaiden]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

There is also a verse a little further along in which the beloved is compared to a company of horses. If you are determined to claim affinity, do tell--is it the teeth or the smell?

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

Then how do you accommodate descriptions of complexion in, for example, Song of Solomon 5:10-14 or I Samuel 17:41-45?

Sistren I am not a biblical scholar but I have some small knowledge of it's contents as much was taught to me at the Methodist School in Kingston which is my home city in Jamaica. There are many things I have read in the Bible that I do not overstand but one thing I have read in the Bible is The Song of Solomon which you have generously offered and very early in Chapter 1 verse 5 we see that it says "I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon."-Song of Solomon 1:5. I do not mean to be argumentative but clearly he is saying he is a Black man.

Jah Guide!
Trevor

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

Then how do you accommodate descriptions of complexion in, for example, Song of Solomon 5:10-14 or I Samuel 17:41-45?

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

Have you ever actually seen a Jew?

Greetings Sistren!

I see the Black Israelites protesting the white man in front of the White House every time I go there to join forces with others who are working diligently against President Donald Trump by carrying signs with good slogans and yelling at white tourists. Here in Babylon I have also met many white people who think they are Jews but they are not Jews because the true Jews are Black men.

Jah Guide!
Trevor

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

Nobody "migrated" to Egypt. The family hung out for a while and then went back home where they belonged.

On the other hand, could we say the vatican is a refugee dump? Cardinals and archbishops and ordinaries and metropolitans and (titles of self-aggrandisement they bestow upon themselves) seem to hole up there when the finances come under scrutiny.

At 6:11 reference is made to "various elements that surrounded him," but of course Calvi was not ordained however many directorships vatican personnel held on the boards of Caribbean shell companies, if any. Under the circumstances that is certainly a form of refuge. Do its residents qualify as refugees?

[handmaiden]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

Jesus wasn't a migrant; He was on an extended visa for a couple of years.

The Lord ordered Joseph to take Mary and Jesus to Egypt for a little while to keep Baby Jesus safe. And also because of the verse about calling my son out of Egypt.


God wanted to make certain that He checked off all of the necessary Old Testament verses so people would know that Jesus was fortold about in His Word.


Nobody "migrated" to Egypt. The family hung out for a while and then went back home where they belonged.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

After studying a bit the Bible and listening what our Holy Father Francis, i also came to the conclusion that Jesus was a migrant. Here are the Bible verse that proves that Jesus was a migrant: (Matthew 2:13-14) 13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.” 14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt But it's not over yet, Jesus was not the only character in the Bible who was a migrant. Moses, for example, along with it's fellow Isrealites, were all refugees who seeked hospitality. Also, the Bible clearly tells us: (Leviticus 19:33-34) When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. So this means that you have to guest all the Mexican Immigrant in your own country, since they are mostly Christians. Likewise, we, the Original Church, are doing our hospitality towards the african people and we even let them sleep in our beds. Also, dont' forget about St. Francesca Saverio Cabrini, the patron Saint of immigrants.
[ATTACH]28370[/ATTACH]
Ciao and remember to always follow what Jesus says.

I must be going soft in the head. Normally I'd stop reading at "Francis" Matthew 23:9 but I went on, ignoring your witch icon as best I could, and was again startled by your ignorance concerning Moses? Is it? Or maybe you simply hadn't read the historical record. Here is the next section:

After studying a bit the Bible and listening what our Holy Father Francis, i also came to the conclusion that Jesus was a migrant. Here are the Bible verse that proves that Jesus was a migrant: (Matthew 2:13-14) 13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.” 14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt But it's not over yet, Jesus was not the only character in the Bible who was a migrant. Moses, for example, along with it's fellow Isrealites, were all refugees who seeked hospitality. Also, the Bible clearly tells us: (Leviticus 19:33-34) When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. So this means that you have to guest all the Mexican Immigrant in your own country, since they are mostly Christians. Likewise, we, the Original Church, are doing our hospitality towards the african people and we even let them sleep in our beds. Also, dont' forget about St. Francesca Saverio Cabrini, the patron Saint of immigrants.
[ATTACH]28370[/ATTACH]
Ciao and remember to always follow what Jesus says.

Yes, there was a period when The Israelites sought refuge. In Egypt. But then they STOPPED BEING REFUGEES and went home. That is the period when they were led by Moses, when they had stopped being refugees and were GOING HOME. You even included the Scripture where this is made explicit; in my final excerpt:

After studying a bit the Bible and listening what our Holy Father Francis, i also came to the conclusion that Jesus was a migrant. Here are the Bible verse that proves that Jesus was a migrant: Matthew 2:13-14) 13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.” 14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt But it's not over yet, Jesus was not the only character in the Bible who was a migrant. Moses, for example, along with it's fellow Isrealites, were all refugees who seeked hospitality. Also, the Bible clearly tells us: (Leviticus 19:33-34) When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. So this means that you have to guest all the Mexican Immigrant in your own country, since they are mostly Christians. Likewise, we, the Original Church, are doing our hospitality towards the african people and we even let them sleep in our beds. Also, dont' forget about St. Francesca Saverio Cabrini, the patron Saint of immigrants.
[ATTACH]28370[/ATTACH]
Ciao and remember to always follow what Jesus says.

WERE strangers in the land of Egypt. PAST TENSE, the stranger or refugee epoch having concluded as soon as they hoofed it out of Egypt. The fact of squatters moving in on their home, the land given to them by God (and could there be any more substantial a title deed?) is irrelevant to whether they were then refugees and in any case has been covered already. You seem to be using the NIV so I checked to make sure:

Leviticus 19:33-34 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

It is quite clear that when Moses was leading the Israelites they were ex-refugees no longer seeking refuge but on their way home. The Bible tells us that at this stage they were wealthy with the spoils of Egypt, but from time to time without food. Also unimportant because then God provided directly.

Exodus 12:34-36 The people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders. And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.

They may have depleted their gold reserves however during the episode of the golden calf.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: Jesus was a migrant, Matthew 2:13-14 says so

Really? You're going to argue in favor of open borders, and as your example you'll talk about a civilization that was destroyed by migrants?