[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Garden of Eden: Proof of God's Love and Mercy

I received this question from a seeker:

I am very disappointed of your interpretation of Gen.

Quote;”God creates a deceitful, talking snake, and places it in the garden.” “God created us to be vile, wretched, foul, evil people that deserve much worse than to be tormented and tortured for all of eternity.” (God cannot create sin, for it is an contradiction of His very nature.)

Deceitful; These are sins; “Tending to mislead, deceive or ensnare; as deceitful words; deceitful practices.” Favor is deceitful. Prov 31. Full of deceit; trickish; fraudulent; cheating; as a deceitful man.

Quote; “Of course, since they don't know the difference between right and wrong, they have no way of knowing that it is wrong to disobey God.” (We must understand that God created law for Adam and Eve, Their knowledge of this law was recognized by both, so there was no excuse.)

Quote; “Some demon-worshiping Atheist scum might read all of this and then be arrogant enough to question God.” Unquote.

Scum; The refuse; the recruitment; that which is vile or worthless. (We must remember that we all at one time or another were sinners and lost. Didn't Jesus also die for these people that are called worthless?)

(Any Atheist, again, at one time or another, will become an agnostic, which will open up a door to conversation, and reasoning. We must control our urge to separate those from God who we do not agree with, but rather reprove them in love and an understanding that they are not useless, but mistaken in the ways of the Lord.)

Quote; “Here is a summary for any slow heathens who might be reading this (I realize that 'slow' and 'heathen' are redundant -- I cant imagine why a person with a healthy mind would reject Jesus Christ).”Unquote. (We must be careful in our conversations, for by our words we can draw all men to Christ, and by our words we can also separate the willing to learn form the truth of the Gospel.) 1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Just a thought. Rev.A.R.Smith

I replied with this answer:

Hello Tony. Thank you for your comments. I'm sorry that you were disappointed, but I will try to address your objections.

"God cannot create sin, for it is an contradiction of His very nature."
Friend, no true statement ever begins with the words "God cannot...". There is nothing that God cannot do. Perhaps if you phrased it as "God would not create sin, ...". However, even then, the statement is still false. God created everything that exists. Man can't create. The Devil can't create. Only God can create. If something exists, it can only be because God created it. Isaiah 45 tells us as much:

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me ... I am the LORD, and there is none else. ... I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God is not deceitful. God will not lie, for it is a contradiction of His very nature. God is not a man, that He should lie.

However, He frequently wants folks to believe things that aren't true. The Bible is full of stories about God sending strong delusion or putting lying spirits into the mouths of prophets. So, God doesn't lie Himself, but He can and does cause others to lie for Him.

"We must understand that God created law for Adam and Eve, Their knowledge of this law was recognized by both, so there was no excuse."
Amen! There was no excuse. God was 110% justified in cursing all of mankind, womankind, and serpentkind for this transgression.

"We must remember that we all at one time or another were sinners and lost. Didn't Jesus also die for these people that are called worthless?"
Amen! Not only that, worthless sinners are precisely who He died for. I remember very clearly what a miserable wretch I was before I was saved. I praise the sweet name of Jesus every day.

"We must control our urge to separate those from God who we do not agree with, but rather reprove them in love and an understanding that they are not useless, but mistaken in the ways of the Lord."
But we are useless to the Lord as long as we remain in opposition to Him. Not one of us is capable of doing any good. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. It is not until we repent of our sins and choose to do His Will, that we can be saved.

I hope I have cleared up any misunderstandings, Brother. God Bless.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[JennyD]

Re: The Garden of Eden: Proof of God's Love and Mercy

Pastor, what a wonderful sermon! It's just the sort of thing all those Hellbound atheists need to hear, to understand the Lord's Infinite Mercy! And your response to Tony was as gentle as it was insightful.

If God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. why didn't he just put the tree somewhere else where they would not have access to it?

It's a shame you can't be bothered to read the sermon before commenting on it, Rusted Iron Brain.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Garden of Eden: Proof of God's Love and Mercy

I received a follow-up question from the same seeker.

(”God cannot create sin, for it is an contradiction of His very nature.” Friend, no true statement ever begins with the words “God cannot...”. There is nothing that God cannot do. Perhaps if you phrased it as “God would not create sin, ...”. However, even then, the statement is still false. God created everything that exists. Man can’t create. The Devil can’t create. Only God can create. If something exists, it can only be because God created it. Isaiah 45 tells us as much:)


God cannot lie, this also according to scripture. God doesn’t temp man in any manner. It is Satan that tempts. When God allows Satan to tempt, this is to prove weather a man is true to his belief and faith in God.
The biggest thing that I have a problem with is that you do not offer Biblical passages to support your interpretation. Give me Bible for this statement. “God created us to be vile, wretched, foul, evil people..” I am trying to understand why you say the things you do.
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


(“God created us to be vile, wretched, foul, evil people that deserve much worse than to be tormented and tortured for all of eternity.”)
What about Job? Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


(But we are useless to the Lord as long as we remain in opposition to Him.) (Some demon-worshiping Atheist scum might read all of this and then be arrogant enough to question God.) These words will create enemies of the Cross and not bring them into a state of mind that they are willing to listen to the truth. Jesus taught us not to intreat men as enemies but as brothers.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
“corrupt communication” To debase or render impure, by alterations or innovations; as, to corrupt language.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

I replied with this answer:


Hello Tony,

Before I address your comments, let me ask you a question. Do you believe that God knew ahead of time, whether or not Adam and Eve would eat from the forbidden tree? The first time I heard ever this story as a child, when we got to the end of the second chapter, I knew that they were going to eat from the tree. God is a whole lot smarter than I am, so I have to expect that He knew as well.

"The biggest thing that I have a problem with is that you do not offer Biblical passages to support your interpretation. Give me Bible for this statement. “God created us to be vile, wretched, foul, evil people..” I am trying to understand why you say the things you do."
First I'll give you the logical proof, then I'll back it up with the Biblical proof. If you agree that that God had any control over His process of creation, and if you agree that God knew ahead of time that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit, then it necessarily implies that He intended for them to eat from the tree.

Again, my intelligence is not even a measurable fraction of God's intelligence. So, if I can think of ways in which creation could have been different enough so that Adam and Eve would have been able to resist the temptation without affecting their free will, then certainly God could. He could have created the world differently, but He didn't. He knew that if He created the world in the way He did, that Adam and Eve would succumb to the temptation. You may take this as if I'm judging God, but let me assure you that I am not. God saw everything that He had made, and, behold it was very good. With the utmost humility, I have to say that I agree.

The point of my sermon was this. Imagine that God had created Adam and Eve with a better ability to resist the temptation of the forbidden fruit, or had made the serpent less subtil, or hadn't made the fruit so attractive, or hadn't made Eve so gullible, etc, and sin never entered the world.

If sin had never entered the world, then how would we know or understand God's Amazing Grace? It is the process of going through rebellion and depravity, followed redemption and salvation through Jesus Christ, that allows us to know and understand God's Amazing Grace. Praise God, the Lord is so Good!

Now for the Biblical proof.
Gen 8:21 the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth
-- we are born sinners
Isa 64:6 we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags
-- we are not capable of doing anything good (without God's help, that is)
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
-- Sin comes from within, as part of our nature.

"God cannot lie, this also according to scripture."
When the Bible says that God cannot lie, it doesn't mean He is incapable of lying or that there is some sort of limitation on what God can or cannot do. God can do anything. But as John 1:1 tells us, God is his Word. God's Word makes up the very fabric of reality. So if God says something, it is automatically true. That's why God "cannot" lie.

"It is Satan that tempts. When God allows Satan to tempt, this is to prove weather a man is true to his belief and faith in God."
Of course. I believe that must be why God created Satan in the first place.

"What about Job?"
Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The first chapter of Job refers to Job as righteous, and compared to other men, he was righteous. We learn later in the book how pitiful man's righteousness is compared to God's standards. God explains to Job exactly what that means. Finally, Job understands, sees himself as God sees him, and says:

Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Everything that Job experienced at the hands of Satan are nothing compared to what he, you, I, and everyone else all deserve, which is an eternity of torment in Hell. I praise Jesus every day for taking my sin away from me, so that I can be fit to be in the presence of God when I am called home. We deserve eternity in Hell for the commission of a single sin, and I know I've sinned more than once.

"These words will create enemies of the Cross and not bring them into a state of mind that they are willing to listen to the truth. Jesus taught us not to intreat men as enemies but as brothers."
Friend, I do not treat folks as enemies, I do love sinners, I do forgive those who mistreat me, and I do not preach in anger. Sometimes I might use strong language, as Jesus did when he addressed the Pharisees, to wake up a sleeping sinner, who doesn't even know about the danger he's in -- but that is in love.

Mat 5:37 is about what to do when asked to swear an oath.

God bless you, Tony.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: The Garden of Eden: Proof of God's Love and Mercy

Here is a summary for any slow heathens who might be reading this (I realize that 'slow' and 'heathen' are redundant -- I cant imagine why a person with a healthy mind would reject Jesus Christ).

• God creates man and woman, both of whom have inquisitive natures but do not know the difference between right and wrong, or good and evil.
• God places the man and woman in a garden.
• God places a tree in the garden and forbids the man and the woman from eating of it, telling them that it would cause them to die that very day. Of course, since they don't know the difference between right and wrong, they have no way of knowing that it is wrong to disobey God.

(I've highlighted the section my question addresses.)

This sermon was referred to in the newsletter and I've read the comments with interest. Having reread Genesis before posting, with the relevant verses appended, I can't find where God forbade the woman from eating of the tree specified. At the time of His prohibition, no female humans existed; even after her transgression, Eve was not named immediately but it must have been her. Here are the verses I read earlier:

Genesis 2:8, 15-17 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed ... And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou [singular] mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

How should I answer this criticism?

[Johny Joe Hold]

We True Christians need to be always on guard to protect ourselves and others from the revenges of sin. To do this, we need to understand the origin of sin and how it has harmed us since it started. So, where did it start?

It's clear sin started when Eve developed a friendly relationship with a snake in the Garden of Eden. There was no sin before this relationship and humans were living without need. Along comes the snake and Eve's irresponsible attitude toward God's warning. Eve eats the forbidden apple then uses her beauty to persuade Adam to sin as well and we became lost.

Snakes have to be a part of the reason sin persists. The states with the most snakes are the ones which must have the most sin. It was helpful to see a ranking states by how many snake bites are recorded each year. Iowa can proud it does not have many snakes. I believe the work of Landover Baptist is why snakes with their relationship with Satan move on to other states.

These States Have the Most Snake Bites in America

[Johny Joe Hold]

Re: The Garden of Eden: Proof of God's Love and Mercy


Did you not read the sermon? God DID expect them to eat the fruit, so He could demonstrate His love and mercy. That was all explained.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

President Trump is now revealing the income from tariffs will pay off the national debt. This has caused me to wonder if perhaps the President has even bigger ends for us in mind. Could it be he is thinking in Biblical terms?

Here is what has me wondering about a Biblical interpretation. If tariff revenue, paid by the Chinese, can pay off the national debt, what could this fire hose of money do after that? Sure, it could reduce our own taxes to zero. But what to do with this incoming money after paying off the debt and paying our taxes? I think President Trump has read that God's love for non-sinning people was so great He made sure they did not have to work. They simple wondered around the Garden of Eden and munched on free fruit.

Trump loves us as much as God loves us. But President Trump is a bit more of what we call "transactional." If we love him enough, he will love us back. If we love him enough, he will collect so much tariff money the Garden of Eden will return. We will never have to work again.

Ezekial 28:13

Paying off national debt with tariffs - Search

[MitzaLizalor]

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

.

God's love for non-sinning people was so great He made sure they did not have to work. They simple wondered around the Garden of Eden and munched on free fruit.

With the workmanship of their pipes already perfected from the moment of creation, neither Adam nor Eve needed to eat anything.

Romans 5:12 by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

Death did not exist so eating wasn't needed for survival. But foodstuffs can be delicious, a medley of berries in season with pineapple sorbet for example, and since Adam presumably had a tongue* it's another example of God's mercy, allowing him the taste experience. Of course the woman† had a tongue and was giving it all that, right & left, to anyone who'd listen I daresay and in the serpent she found a willing audience. But eating the fruit was not her sin: that would be an "active" sin. For this wretch a "passive" sin was cooked up: the sin of being deceived.

I Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived‡ was in the transgression.

In these troubled times—surely The Last Days—frauds and charlatans are everywhere. And with the influx of money they'll be in overdrive, “Wow!!!” they'll announce. “I was a dumpster diver, barely surviving on leftovers. Yuk! But now I earn $5K a day!! It's SO easy and I want to share the secret of my success!!!” Now obviously the best way to do that would be JUST MAKE THE SECRET THE NEXT THING YOU SAY. (By say, I mean type into your AI generator, but you get the idea.) In this way many people are deceived.

God is explicit that being deceived is a sin, or more specifically a transgression, because He loves us and does not want us to suffer either the loss of our life savings or torture pain and anguish at very high temperatures, over and over again. As the money valve opens and the benefits are shared equally, expressed as a percentage of one's net worth, this devastating passive sin is waiting to be sure. I an encouraged by God's assurance that Christians cannot sin and therefore are immune from this path to perdition.

*	ADAM	Genesis 2:23; 3:9-10	already named Gen 2:19
†	EVE	Genesis 3:2	as yet unnamed Gen 3:20
‡	VERB	note: Passive Voice	cf Gen 3:17

[Johny Joe Hold]

In these troubled times—surely The Last Days—frauds and charlatans are everywhere. And with the influx of money they'll be in overdrive, “Wow!!!” they'll announce. “I was a dumpster diver, barely surviving on leftovers. Yuk! But now I earn $5K a day!! It's SO easy and I want to share the secret of my success!!!”

Thank you for that thoughtful response, Sister Mitza. My assumption is that God and President Trump will have some way to exclude scumbags from the new Garden of Eden. Trying to figure out what the rules might be from Genesis is daunting. God shut down the Garden after Eve ate the apple. But he let the Garden exist even though Adam and Eve were stark naked, a sin. They tried to cover up with clothing made of leaves so that is to be said for them. But, they still sinned with nakedness before they put on the leaves. That tells me some sinners might be allowed in the new Garden but they would need to clean up their act quickly. I wonder how much time God gave Eve to make those clothes out of leaves? If she worked slowly so they could both look at each other with unhealthy thoughts for a longer period of time I assume God told them to stop it.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

If only they had listened to God. The take home message is simple: LISTEN to God. DON'T misbehave.