[Pastor Nereu Gargalo]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

To my fellow scholars in the house.

Who let a niggra rapper in this church????

[Nobar King]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Are you trying to suggest that there's an error in the Bible (KJV)?

[Samuel Coleridge]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Matthew 22:37-40
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt KJV translation love (charity) agaphseiVthe Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love (plhsion)thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


To my fellow scholars in the house.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Combine that with James 2:1-7 and you have the perfect socialist Word as our Lord and Savior intended it. Hallelujah! We are all equal!

SCREEEEECH!! Hold on there just one second, butterscotch.


Did you just say that Jesus is a COMMUNIST!?

[Samuel Coleridge]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Like I said: It can mean both depending on the situation. You were quoting 1st Corinthians 13:4, so you'll have to look at what 1st Corinthians is all about.

As you know Paul had been authorized by the Jerusalem council to act as an apostle to the gentiles, on the condition that he would bring back a big fat tithe. I am sure you remember that Peter was a hook-nosed Jew whose name means "the Rock?". Well, Paul's job was to gather money from the new Christians (homosexual Greeks) and give it to Peter. Talk about finding yourself between "a rock" and a hard place. Oy vey!

If you look at chapter 9 you'll see how Paul speaks of reaping carnal profits. He founded the congregation in Corinth and now he intends to "eat the fruit thereof":

1 Cor 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1 Cor 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1 Cor 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1 Cor 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

Praise the Lord, Mr. Danish. Paul goes on to say in that chapter,

1 Cor 9:18-19
What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

We can clearly see that the Word is free to all.

At the end of the epistle, Paul speaks directly of the collection, which he intends to pick up and deliver to Peter and James:

1 Cor 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1 Cor 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
1 Cor 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

There it is: As plain a the nose in Peter's face. Now, do you understand why Paul considers charity to be more important than hope and faith?

Combine that with James 2:1-7 and you have the perfect socialist Word as our Lord and Savior intended it. Hallelujah! We are all equal!

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

[Pastor Rune Enoe]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

So is it love or is it charity? There is plenty of precedent to say that it love is charity. If so, it's a beautiful and perfect scripture.

Like I said: It can mean both depending on the situation. You were quoting 1st Corinthians 13:4, so you'll have to look at what 1st Corinthians is all about.

As you know Paul had been authorized by the Jerusalem council to act as an apostle to the gentiles, on the condition that he would bring back a big fat tithe. I am sure you remember that Peter was a hook-nosed Jew whose name means "the Rock?". Well, Paul's job was to gather money from the new Christians (homosexual Greeks) and give it to Peter. Talk about finding yourself between "a rock" and a hard place. Oy vey!

If you look at chapter 9 you'll see how Paul speaks of reaping carnal profits. He founded the congregation in Corinth and now he intends to "eat the fruit thereof":

1 Cor 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1 Cor 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1 Cor 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1 Cor 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

At the end of the epistle, Paul speaks directly of the collection, which he intends to pick up and deliver to Peter and James:

1 Cor 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1 Cor 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
1 Cor 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

There it is: As plain a the nose in Peter's face. Now, do you understand why Paul considers charity to be more important than hope and faith?

[Brother V]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

I would describe myself as the one of the most humble and kind Christians who ever existed.

No offense,
Sam

Perhaps you should look up the word humble.

I'll save you the time...

not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive

Calling oneself MOST pretty much ruins the whole Humble thing. Were you actually humble, we'd know it, you wouldn't have to tell us.

You remind me of Moses.

Numbers 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

YIC
V

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Why stop there? Why not compare many of the popular versions and highlight text where at least two of them disagree on what the Word of God is:

KJV:
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

NIV:
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

NAS:
If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

NLT:
If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing.

ASV:
And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

YLT:
and if Ihave prophecy, and know all the secrets, and all the knowledge, and if I have all the faith, so as to remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing

Now you can see from above that not only does the KJV1611 make the most sense, it is the ONLY one that:

1. Uses the word "charity" instead of "love"
2. Uses the phrase "and though" instead of "if" or "and if"
3. Uses the phrase "understand" instead of "know" or "understood."

Etc.

Now do you see?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

So is it love or is it charity?

It is what it says it is and wherever it says it in KJV 1611

We must give up everything and love one another!

Your fluffy-bunnyness amuses me but not in a good way. Our Brothers are Brothers in Christ and these we love. Our Enemies are those of God Himself and we hate them as does He.

Praise! I knew we had common beliefs!

Your beliefs are certainly common, Landover’s beliefs are refined:
Zec:13:8: And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec:13:9: And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Do you think I am earning kudos from God?

No, and, I suspect, neither does He Who sees into the souls of men

I have no need for earthly rewards as my portion lies in heaven. My only hope is that once your angry former members leave, they join a tolerant and godly liberal church like the Anglicans, Episcopalians, Unitarians or the Universal Church of Christ.

2Pe:2:1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

They will be well taken care of in our bake sales.

The Lord, at the Second Coming, will have the greatest “bake sale” the World has ever known. The souls of the Damned will be baked for eternity – I suggest you take steps to avoid this fate.

[Samuel Coleridge]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

You will recall that all those who say Lord, Lord are not holy, yet your claim is that all giving is charity. Clearly this cannot be the case. Charity implies a genuine selfless motive.

So is it love or is it charity? There is plenty of precedent to say that it love is charity. If so, it's a beautiful and perfect scripture.

We must give up everything and love one another! Praise! I knew we had common beliefs!

So even to someone such as yourself, 1 Cor:13:3 should have a meaning deeper than your naïve criticism. Naturally, however, my disappointment falls heaviest on your thought that The Word of God should somehow be less than perfect.

Thanks to you, I know that it is perfect. Charity and love! Hallelujah (a suspiciously Arab sounding word)!

Your immortal soul is in peril as you persist in this worldly and arrogant display of pseudo-knowledge in a transparent attempt to gather kudos from God.

Do you think I am earning kudos from God? Praise the Lord that my works are found good in His sight! I try so hard to be humble, but it's difficult sometimes, as I believe myself to be one of God's greatest servants through my humility.

Sir, you are not preaching to some hicks here,

Well, a few of you certainly are the exceptions, which prove the rule. I'm glad to have met such studied ignorami.

who may fall for your silver tongued sanake-oil salesmanship and thus tithe heavily into your coffers.

Sir, you offend me. My tongue is insured that to the level of gold by the ounce.

I have no need for earthly rewards as my portion lies in heaven. My only hope is that once your angry former members leave, they join a tolerant and godly liberal church like the Anglicans, Episcopalians, Unitarians or the Universal Church of Christ. They will be well taken care of in our bake sales.

No Sir, you have met your match and more besides.

Indeed, I have. You are worthy opponents. The Moriarty to my Holmes.

I suggest 1Pe:5:5: Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Funny, I would say the same to you, sir.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Sir, you need look no further than 1 Corinthians 13:3 to realize that the text obviously refers to love.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Does that make any sense in the context? If I give away everything and offer up my own life for others, I don't have charity?

Your humble servant in Christ,

Sam

You will recall that all those who say Lord, Lord are not holy, yet your claim is that all giving is charity. Clearly this cannot be the case. Charity implies a genuine selfless motive.

So even to someone such as yourself, 1 Cor:13:3 should have a meaning deeper than your naïve criticism. Naturally, however, my disappointment falls heaviest on your thought that The Word of God should somehow be less than perfect.

Your immortal soul is in peril as you persist in this worldly and arrogant display of pseudo-knowledge in a transparent attempt to gather kudos from God. Sir, you are not preaching to some hicks here, who may fall for your silver tongued sanake-oil salesmanship and thus tithe heavily into your coffers. No Sir, you have met your match and more besides.

I suggest 1Pe:5:5: Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

[Hank]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Shoo! The adults are talking here.

Shoo? What in tarnation are you talking about shoos for you idiot? What does shoos have anything to do with the Bible?

Jesus wore sandals not shoos, I reckon its time you REPENT!

[Samuel Coleridge]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Sam stop arguing with God's Word™ and start tithing to God's favorite Church, Landover Baptist®. Trust me that will impress God a lot more come judgement day than trying to pick errors in His Bible.

Shoo! The adults are talking here.

[Hank]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

Sam stop arguing with God's Word(tm) and start tithing to God's favorite Church, Landover Baptist(r). Trust me that will impress God a lot more come judgement day than trying to pick errors in His Bible.

[Samuel Coleridge]

Re: One minor example of how the KJV gets it wrong again!

I see. The NIV doesn't have love, and the NIV doesn't have charity. But the NIV is full of "it". What a wonderful slogan.


So when the NIV is proved wrong, you switch to Young's. Well, all you've proved so far is that the KJV1611 is not a literal translation. "agaph" can mean love, and it can mean charity, depending on the context:

Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

In the context that you quote (1 Cor. 12:31-13:13), Paul is discussing the three Christian graces, Faith, Hope and Charity, so naturally the word is properly translated as charity in this context.

Sir, you need look no further than 1 Corinthians 13:3 to realize that the text obviously refers to love.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Does that make any sense in the context? If I give away everything and offer up my own life for others, I don't have charity?

Your humble servant in Christ,

Sam