[Basilissa]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

So true! All Catholics have to do is memorize a few lines to say during mass. Most of them don't even participate in singing along with the choir! At least the songs they have are Godly, but since most don't even sing they can't even use that! A Catholic I know doesn't even read the Bible!

Hello, sweetie, and to our friendly forum!

Say, why don't you find your way to the introduction forum, and once there, create an introduction thread, and write your introduction, and before you hit the "submit" button, please do make sure that you have answered the questions listed on the top of that page.

Can you do that?

[AHellboundKilljoy]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

So true! All Catholics have to do is memorize a few lines to say during mass. Most of them don't even participate in singing along with the choir! At least the songs they have are Godly, but since most don't even sing they can't even use that! A Catholic I know doesn't even read the Bible!

[BuddyBraeswood]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Did a search through this thread...well first, thank you Pastor Ezekiel for starting this - extremely thorough and informative.

There was no reference to "little horn" and would like to point it out. The book of Daniel tells who the antichrist is and scholars have known for centuries - they were persecuted for such insights by the catholic church (non-scholars too). It's one of the reasons why they tried to keep the Bible suppressed from english translation for so many years. This is documented in history and implore anyone to do their research on the vatican's treachery (believe it was during pope Gregory where documents were published on their attempts to suppress it). The pope sits between two cherubim dressed in white - hello!? "man of sin"

2 Thessalonians 2:4

the "Vicar of Christ," yea right, GET OUT OF HERE!!!

For anyone who would need more information on the antichrist roman catholic church (for whatever reason because the best points have already been made and shown!) look up Daniel's interpretation of the king's dream - "little horn." There are great sermons and documentaries out there for any seeker who wishes to know the Truth.

[A Follower]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.
What computerdemon says- What do you call your male parent?

We are born again when we are baptized, not from our earthly parents but from God. Therefor God is our Father. Our only Father. How did Jesus address his parents? Did He treat them with respect, or did He address her simply as woman? See John 2:4, Luke 11:28. Jesus completely disavows His relationship with Mary, treating as no more than any other woman, even denying her assertion that she is somehow blessed.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.
What computerdemon says- It's a custom. Priests in the Byzantine Right are often married.

The Byzantine rite is not Roman Catholic, which is not to say that eastern "christians" aren't demon worshipppers, they are, but it is irrelevant to the discussion. Your other claim that forbidding the priesthood to marry is simply custom is yet another of your bald-faced lies. A priest who marries is ex-communicated, he is no longer catholic and is to be shunned by others who remain catholic. It is in fact a catholic law for which severe punishment is meted out. An earthly law that directly contradicts God's Law.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.
What computerdemon says- Back then, cousins, friends, etc., were often called brothers an sisters.

No.
Your claim is unsubstantiated, not backed up with Biblical or secular evidence. As a matter of fact, when families are larger the distinction between brother and cousin becomes more important, while in societies with small families, like current day China with their one-child-policy, cousins will be treated and referred to as brothers and sisters. You also once again take the definition of a word and claim that in fact God meant a completely different word. That seems highly unlikely, God created the American language after the Babel incident, He surely knows the difference between brother and cousin.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.
What computerdemon says- Errr, we honor Mary because she is the perpetual virgin. We don't worship her. Nutball.

Insults and attacks by a demon worshipper instead of civil discourse? How unexpected.
You honor Mary above and beyond what you would do for other people, that's the definition of worship. You also pray to her for intercession with Jesus or God, even though she has no special powers according to the Bible. Even if she was special other than that God randomly chose to favor her with birthing Jesus, she does not deserve worship or prayer, even angels don't deserve that (Revelation 22:6-9). In fact Jesus is the only way to God (1 Timothy 2:5). You claim her to be a perpetual virgin, something that is impossible, seeing she had several sons and daughters from traditional methods, besides the virgin birth of Jesus. Matthew 1:25 shows that Mary did form a union with Joseph after Jesus' birth.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

Refuted and you did not provide an argument, so we'll consider your silence your apology for being wrong, and the matter being settled.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.
What computerdemon says- So I can call someone lord, and that would be blasphemy?

Does God forbid calling someone lord?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.
What computerdemon says- First of all, where in the Bible does it say we have to do what the Bible says? Second of all, for proof the papacy was established, read Matthew 16:17-19.

Unrefuted by you. We accept you cannot easily admit being wrong, but it would be kind for you to apologize on behalf of all catholics for lying about purgatory, nuns and popes.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.
What computerdemon says- When you see a statue of a good man, say Abe Lincoln, you remember the great things he did. Same with Catholic statues. In Exodus 20:4, we should not SERVE statues. We don't honor the statues, but honor the figures they represent. In 1 Kings 6:12-13, Solomon is commissioned to build a temple. Check out the plans for the interior. Read 1 Kings 6:23, 27, 29, and 31-32. Statues were even venerated by God fearing people. Read Numbers 21:8-9.

Perhaps you should read those verses. The house of God Solomon built had cherubim, palm trees, knops and open flowers. No statues of Mary or Jesus, nor of God. Praying towards a statue is idolatry. Needing to look at an idol to remember God is idolatry and clear evidence of your lack of faith.
And are you aware that you wrote the exact definition of idolatry in your attempt to explain that what you do is not committing idolatry?
Exodus does not mention serving statues, it bans statues outright. Your making up your own Bible again, child. Grow up and accept that you cannot make up your own God.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.
What computerdemon says- Ahem. John 6:35-59

Ahem, where in John 6 does Jesus magically transform bread and wine into Himself? Where in John 6 does Jesus say that this supposed act can be done by priests? As a matter of fact, in my Bible John 6:35 says that believing in Jesus means you have eaten the bread of Heaven, and you will never hunger for it again. The fact that catholics have to munch wafers every service proves that they never manange to actually believe in Jesus.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.
What computerdemon says- Romans 11:22-24, Galatians 5:4, and 2 Peter 2:20-22.

Romans 11:22-24 doesn't mention works.
Galatians 5 says that any physical act does not save you, instead of it is faith that saves you. The polar opposite of your claim.
2 Peter 2:20-22 again doesn't mention works, it only says that people who cannot cease from sinning, preaching corruption, covetousness, vanity (i.e. catholics raping children, $30,000,000 homes for their priests, expensive robes, gold statues, etc) will be wiped out.
Let's look at John 6, that you quoted in your previous blasphemous reasoning:

John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.
What computerdemon says- Matthew 16:17-19

Oops, you failed to add Matthew 16:23

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

That church is led by Satan himself. You admit that you willingly follow the devil! Begone demon!!

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.
What computerdemon says- 1 Peter 2:5-9 says that we are all members of the priesthood. How could God be the only priest then? For my closing passages, read John 20:21-23 and James 5:14-16.

Are you saying that we are all God, or are you saying that priests are exactly the same as other people? Then why do you treat your priests differently than other people? And does 1 Peter 2 explain exactly what is expected of those priests? Hint: it does not mention accepting confessions even once. Instead it says that those who stumble aren't Christian at all.
What does James say? That we should admit our faults to others, not go into a dark cubicle and keep our sins hidden except from the local pedophile overlord,no we have to share our faults with fellow Christians. Again you do and reason exectly contrary to what God demands of you.

You lost the debate. *puts on sunglasses* deal with it.

I think I have adequately dealt with your pathetic attempt at debating.

Find God, you sinner!

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Within the quote, I put little phrases that are backed by Scripture. If you want, I can simplify and just put my facts straight up-front. (I know this smiley has absolutely nothing to do with the post, I just really wanted to use it.)

You might want to do just that, dear. It appears as if you simply randomly chose Bible verses to post rather than offering any kind of coherent argument.

[computerdemon]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Computerdemon,

I should have added this along with my other question, but, can you back your comment with scripture? And don't forget to use the KJV1611 Bible.

Within the quote, I put little phrases that are backed by Scripture. If you want, I can simplify and just put my facts straight up-front. (I know this smiley has absolutely nothing to do with the post, I just really wanted to use it.)

[mgreigns]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Computerdemon,

I should have added this along with my other question, but, can you back your comment with scripture? And don't forget to use the KJV1611 Bible.

[mgreigns]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Computerdemon, I am curious, What are you talking about?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

You lost the debate. *puts on sunglasses* deal with it.

What debate?

[computerdemon]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

The roman catholic "Church" is Not Christian. I want you all to understand this.

Practically all precepts of the papists contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares. Jesus wants you to quit kissing those rings, and instead become washed clean in His Blood!

For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the catholic cult, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the catholics religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The papist Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)

Before we get to specific problems with catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin Vulgate. Some 40 odd years after his death, the catholic "religion" dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick. In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the catholic pope so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536. It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the papists had their way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope. Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish thugs.

I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.


* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

* * * *
What computerdemon says- What do you call your male parent?
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.

1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).

Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.

Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.

1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

* * * *
What computerdemon says- It's a custom. Priests in the Byzantine Right are often married.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

* * * *
What computerdemon says- Back then, cousins, friends, etc., were often called brothers an sisters.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
* * * *
What computerdemon says- Errr, we honor Mary because she is the perpetual virgin. We don't worship her. Nutball.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name

John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
* * * *
What computerdemon says- So I can call someone lord, and that would be blasphemy?
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.

Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).

One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.

NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

* * * *
What computerdemon says- First of all, where in the Bible does it say we have to do what the Bible says? Second of all, for proof the papacy was established, read Matthew 16:17-19.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
* * * *
What computerdemon says- When you see a statue of a good man, say Abe Lincoln, you remember the great things he did. Same with Catholic statues. In Exodus 20:4, we should not SERVE statues. We don't honor the statues, but honor the figures they represent. In 1 Kings 6:12-13, Solomon is commissioned to build a temple. Check out the plans for the interior. Read 1 Kings 6:23, 27, 29, and 31-32. Statues were even venerated by God fearing people. Read Numbers 21:8-9.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

* * * *
What computerdemon says- Ahem. John 6:35-59
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?

The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.
What computerdemon says- Romans 11:22-24, Galatians 5:4, and 2 Peter 2:20-22.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
* * * *
What computerdemon says- Matthew 16:17-19
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
* * * *
There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic cult. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic cult which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).
What computerdemon says- 1 Peter 2:5-9 says that we are all members of the priesthood. How could God be the only priest then? For my closing passages, read John 20:21-23 and James 5:14-16.
* * * *
The catholic cult has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of papism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts--1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound 2) there's no such thing as purgatory and 3) the gift of God is without price.

Roman mary worship today is probably the wealthiest government/tax-free corporation in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not the Whore of Babylon (aka the catholic "church").

Praise Jesus!

You lost the debate. *puts on sunglasses* deal with it.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Catholics are also followers of Christ, so they are Christian

Perhaps you could post an example of how catholics follow Christ? If I am wrong surely you'd be able to give even a single example to show me where I've missed something because at present I am unaware of anything at all supporting your claim.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Christians are followers of Christ, Catholics are also followers of Christ, so they are Christian, or you like that doesn't matter much.
Who has given you patent on the name 'Christian'?

You have the first part right. True Christians™ follow Jesus Christ AND consider Faith in Him pivotal for Salvation. That is, there is no eternal life in Heaven without Jesus.

But the Catholics believe that you can be saved without Jesus. They think that Faith in Christ is not necessary. They tell that themselves in the Vatican catechism article 841:

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Jesus discarded, Christ dismissed. By your own definition these people are not Christians. Case closed for us but not for Jesus. He tells us what will happen to the Catholics.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Germanicus]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

The roman catholic "Church" is Not Christian. I want you all to understand this.

Practically all precepts of the papists contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares. Jesus wants you to quit kissing those rings, and instead become washed clean in His Blood!

For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the catholic cult, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the catholics religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The papist Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)

Before we get to specific problems with catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin Vulgate. Some 40 odd years after his death, the catholic "religion" dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick. In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the catholic pope so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536. It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the papists had their way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope. Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish thugs.

I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.


* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.

1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).

Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.

Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.

1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name

John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.

Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).

One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.

NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
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CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?

The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.


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CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
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CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
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There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic cult. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic cult which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).

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The catholic cult has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of papism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts--1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound 2) there's no such thing as purgatory and 3) the gift of God is without price.

Roman mary worship today is probably the wealthiest government/tax-free corporation in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not the Whore of Babylon (aka the catholic "church").

Praise Jesus!

Christians are followers of Christ, Catholics are also followers of Christ, so they are Christian, or you like that doesn't matter much.
Who has given you patent on the name 'Christian'?

[Didymus Much]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Well, because if they are not saved, and nothing the unsaved say can be true...

Logic fail. Unsaved can say anything, and "anything" includes "stuff that's true".

[Sapientia]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

What about them?

Well, because if they are not saved, and nothing the unsaved say can be true, then what Archbishop Ussher said was untrue since he was unsaved.