[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

Hands up all those who think this monkey worshipper has even seen a gene...

What, nobody?

Whereas here's the world, just like the Bible says it is. Hands up all the people who can see the world and read the Bible to cross reference.

[mandrake137]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

People keep saying that, people who claim to believe in the origin of species by natural selection (evolutionists). Natural selection differs from artificial selection in that selection of mates is decided by the animals themselves rather than by someone else deliberately trying to breed beef cattle (or dairy cattle) or sheep or something.

Neither of these are random selection. Different characteristics are selected for in breeding partners and offspring have the chosen attributes. In the case of apes - the Darwinist announces - we are the offspring of ancestors who chose their mates wisely, imparting traits which have withstood the ravages of "ice-ages" torrid "interglacial periods" even the occasional "snowball earth" over "millions" and "millions" and "millions" and "millions" and "millions" and "millions" of years. The fact [they gloat] that a prehistoric microbe found X a desirable trait even though it didn't have any apparent purpose (other than seeming "sexy") means that when "the time comes" that characteristic will guarantee the survival of all "us apes" - FAITH INDEED.

But what a futile and degenerate hope their delusion affords. They don't tell you that in their Godless "natural selection" everything without trait X dies in agony. Ripped limb from limb in all liklihood by the ones who did survive. Their faith that the 1% who survived had given us strength to prevail in reality is the certainty that 99% of them will not.

If that's faith in monkeys, count me out!

Jesus said:

JOHN 6:47-50 Uerely, verely I say vnto you, Hee that beleeueth on me, hath euerlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eate Manna in the wildernesse, and are dead. This is the bread which commeth downe from heauen, that a man may eate thereof, and not die.
©1611

Natural selection is survival of the fittest, adapting to survive beyond the ever changing environment and outsmarting predators. The giraffe is the best example. Why would a giraffe have a long neck? It's counter intuitive. If a giraffe had a shorter neck, it could eat things off the ground and survive. Again, why would they need to reach high up into the trees to eat? Could it be....that the ground no longer had vegetation? The taller ones bred with the taller ones because...well they were the only ones who stayed alive. All the short necked giraffes died off in competing for food. Simple genetics, tall necked giraffes breed with tall necked giraffes and you have tall necked giraffe babies and so on and so forth.

There are probably instances where certain genetic traits have been more desirable, and it's very apparent in animals today. There's a reason why elk still fight each other in the mountains, why moose still fight, why big horned sheep still fight. There's a reason why birds are flamboyantly colored. You can't propagate your species if you're not found attractive. Thus, the unattractive members of the species are going to die out and become obsolete because they weren't bred together. We do the same thing. No one says to themselves "I want to get married to the ugliest, fattest, most idiotic person I can find." Those are undesirable traits among our species, and so people who are fat and ugly and stupid usually aren't the ones doing the majority of the procreating.

[mandrake137]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

What I found amazing is how he basis all of this on blind faith. He just believes everything that he is told. However we only have to open our own eyes to see the evidence of God's creation. We also have the personal evidence of the joy that comes into our lives when we allow Jesus to enter us. His evidence is all based on the hearsay of people he has not even met.

YiC

Jack

Are you kidding me? What is there blind faith about? Genetics is blind faith? Science is blind faith? There are burdens of proof in science. There is none in religion. I think it's hilarious how you can sit there and mock me when you have zero physical proof of the existence of God. Zero. Show me one thing that proves that God exists. Proof requires evidence, and evidence requires a scientific method. You can't do it and you know you can't do it. Telling me to "look at God's creation" isn't proof. In fact, it's probably the furthest thing away from the truth you can get.

If you can prove to me that any part of the Bible is real, I'll donate 20 dollars to this forum.

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_scientific_method.shtml

This is for little kids, it shows the scientific method. If you can follow it and prove to me one part of the Bible is true, I'll donate the money.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

We don't put "faith" in any monkeys, but I do agree with your statement that we believe in randomness.

People keep saying that, people who claim to believe in the origin of species by natural selection (evolutionists). Natural selection differs from artificial selection in that selection of mates is decided by the animals themselves rather than by someone else deliberately trying to breed beef cattle (or dairy cattle) or sheep or something.

Neither of these are random selection. Different characteristics are selected for in breeding partners and offspring have the chosen attributes. In the case of apes - the Darwinist announces - we are the offspring of ancestors who chose their mates wisely, imparting traits which have withstood the ravages of "ice-ages" torrid "interglacial periods" even the occasional "snowball earth" over "millions" and "millions" and "millions" and "millions" and "millions" and "millions" of years. The fact [they gloat] that a prehistoric microbe found X a desirable trait even though it didn't have any apparent purpose (other than seeming "sexy") means that when "the time comes" that characteristic will guarantee the survival of all "us apes" - FAITH INDEED.

But what a futile and degenerate hope their delusion affords. They don't tell you that in their Godless "natural selection" everything without trait X dies in agony. Ripped limb from limb in all liklihood by the ones who did survive. Their faith that the 1% who survived had given us strength to prevail in reality is the certainty that 99% of them will not.

If that's faith in monkeys, count me out!

Jesus said:

JOHN 6:47-50 Uerely, verely I say vnto you, Hee that beleeueth on me, hath euerlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eate Manna in the wildernesse, and are dead. This is the bread which commeth downe from heauen, that a man may eate thereof, and not die.
©1611

[mandrake137]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

Obviously you don't understand where you are. We believe the Bible is the inspired and inerrant Word of God and is sharper than a two-edged sword (Hebrews 4:12) and that faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ (Romans 10:17).


Of course that's how it is. If evolution is true, why aren't humans having other species?


If humans were truly separated for thousands of years, why can any European mate with any indigenous North American or aboriginal people from the Islands of Australia or New Zealand?



It surely seems as if you do. You ask us to accept that we are no better than a monkey or even "less developed than other predators," when the Word tells us that we are so much more.

Gen 1 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

I sure wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Feeling like I was no better than some dumb animal.



And who is our neighbor, according to the Gospel?

We have not been around long enough to procreate into new species. We've also not had a major trial in humanity that has forced us to adapt to a changing climate or another environmental stressor. Humans have only been at the forefront of existance for just over 3000 years, far shy of the time needed to evolve.

Also, to answer your question about mating, it's actually very hard for certain ethnicities to interbreed because of blood compatibility. We're getting further and further away from being able to breed though. The only difference is that we've got the technology and means to keep our entire species localized, even though we live on different continents. Other animals have no developed the means to travel across vast oceans to breed.

I said that some predators are more adapted to their survival than we are. I also said that we're advanced, but we also have primal senses which occur in all mammals. You have to realize the Bible was written thousands of years ago, and it's most pure form in existence, is missing hundreds of pages. Not to mention the bastardization that's occurred over the centuries to omit certain aspects of the Bible out. If you're willing to put your whole life on the line for an edited half-full transcript of pre-medieval peasants, then be my guest. I just hope that one day, you come to your senses and appreciate what science has done to make your life that much better. (Hell, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.)

[mandrake137]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

He's just some socialist constantly on the lookout for a handout, so his first instinct upon finding our Creation Science forum is to try to get us to do his homework for him. He's probably never put in an honest day's work in his life.

These sass-mouthed libs are all the same.

Proverbs 24:30-31
I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding;
And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.

You assume I'm a socialist looking for a handout because I believe in evolution? You're all dumber than I thought!

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

That's not even to mention the personal revelations afforded us by being filled with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit guides our discernment in all matters, whether it be faith, doctrine, or True Science™.

Who are you going to believe - some sissies in lab coats with their secular degrees, or the voice of the Creator of the universe Himself?

Amen, Brother!

And they say THEY have evidence and proof of things...

[Jedediah]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

That's not even to mention the personal revelations afforded us by being filled with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit guides our discernment in all matters, whether it be faith, doctrine, or True Science™.

I Corinthians 2:12-14
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Who are you going to believe - some sissies in lab coats with their secular degrees, or the voice of the Creator of the universe Himself?

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

What I found amazing is how he basis all of this on blind faith. He just believes everything that he is told. However we only have to open our own eyes to see the evidence of God's creation. We also have the personal evidence of the joy that comes into our lives when we allow Jesus to enter us. His evidence is all based on the hearsay of people he has not even met.

YiC

Jack

And I'm willing to bet that the authors of that hearsay didn't even actually see such a thing as an atom or a monkey turning into a human but are convinced such things exist or actually happened just because they were told.

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

What I found amazing is how he basis all of this on blind faith. He just believes everything that he is told. However we only have to open our own eyes to see the evidence of God's creation. We also have the personal evidence of the joy that comes into our lives when we allow Jesus to enter us. His evidence is all based on the hearsay of people he has not even met.

YiC

Jack

[Jedediah]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

I think that's probably because you are very very boring.

He's just some socialist constantly on the lookout for a handout, so his first instinct upon finding our Creation Science forum is to try to get us to do his homework for him. He's probably never put in an honest day's work in his life.

These sass-mouthed libs are all the same.

Proverbs 24:30-31
I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding;
And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

What I think is interesting is not a single person attempted to refute anything I had to say on page 5. It must be hard to argue against logical thought processes when all you have is fairytales.

I think that's probably because you are very very boring.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

Obviously you don't understand where you are. We believe the Bible is the inspired and inerrant Word of God and is sharper than a two-edged sword (Hebrews 4:12) and that faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ (Romans 10:17).

Evolution takes millions of years to occur, especially when you're talking about macroevolution. Religious people have a tendency to think that evolution means that one day a monkey gave birth to a human and that's how we got our ancestry.

Of course that's how it is. If evolution is true, why aren't humans having other species?

If humans were truly separated for thousands of years, why can any European mate with any indigenous North American or aboriginal people from the Islands of Australia or New Zealand?

It's far, far from the truth. Through genetic mapping, we can see that we share a common ancestry to primates that existed thousands (possibly millions) of years ago. That doesn't mean that today's monkeys gave birth to us. We don't put "faith" in any monkeys, but I do agree with your statement that we believe in randomness.

It surely seems as if you do. You ask us to accept that we are no better than a monkey or even "less developed than other predators," when the Word tells us that we are so much more.

Gen 1 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

I sure wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Feeling like I was no better than some dumb animal.

The teachings of Jesus Christ can be applied regardless of whether or not you believe the story. Love thy neighbor.

And who is our neighbor, according to the Gospel?

[mandrake137]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

Nice post!!! My personal favorite evidence against atheism is irreducible complexity / watchmaker analogy / watchmaker argument.

Evolution has no basis in reality, spirituality, science, or logic. Fact: life is irreducibly complex. Fact: A human being cannot evolve from mud anymore than a computer, car, or watch can! The Theory of Evolution replaces God with a monkey!!! It's a cruel joke told by the Devil through the mouths of lost souls.

What gets me, is that people have known this for thousands of years!!!! Atheism as we know it today virtually didn't even exist outside these last 150 years!!! Something is going on... something big... Satan has been working hard to convince people that they are the actual children of monkeys, fish, bacteria, etc. that randomly evolved over millions of years! One of your super ancient grandparents was a fish! Seriously?

Satan is at the head of this new godless EVILutionist religion movement. There is absolutely no other reasonable EXPLANATION for it. Only Satan himself could get people to believe in something soooo incredibly ridiculous!!!! Satan's followers have put their FAITH in randomness and monkeys, instead of God.

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

Evolution takes millions of years to occur, especially when you're talking about macroevolution. Religious people have a tendency to think that evolution means that one day a monkey gave birth to a human and that's how we got our ancestry. It's far, far from the truth. Through genetic mapping, we can see that we share a common ancestry to primates that existed thousands (possibly millions) of years ago. That doesn't mean that today's monkeys gave birth to us. We don't put "faith" in any monkeys, but I do agree with your statement that we believe in randomness.

Mutations are the primary cause for the evolution of new species over the span of thousands and millions of years. It's easily seen in our daily lives. Bacteria which are harmful to us are mutating all the time, leading to resistant strains of influenza and MRSA. It's almost once a year that a new resistant strain of bacteria is formed. This is also exemplified by Darwin's famous studies on the Galapagos Islands, as well as things such as the anatomy of whales, squirrels in the Grand Canyon. Let's not forget the basis of genetics with Gregor Mendel and predicting physical attributes through genetic manipulation. There are thousands of reasons why an organism would be able to adapt, evolve, and continue surviving.

The reason that evolution is so hard to grasp for most people is because humans have only been consciously aware of the natural world for a very short amount of time. Even if we use the Christian view of the human race, 8000 years is a very, very small amount of time compared to the 4,500,000,000 years that science estimates the planet has existed. That's 562,000 times longer than Christians believe the world has existed. In that amount of time, the Earth has obviously undergone very serious and radical changes. Volcanoes, meteors, earthquakes, floods, droughts, oxygen deprivation, extended periods of light, extended periods of dark, and all other manners of natural impacts are all precursors for adaptation and species recovery. In fact, fossil records indicate that following a major extinction of species due to some of these natural disasters, the earth is replenished with thousands of new species that didn't exist before said disasters.

Realistically, the only advancement that humans have over other animals is the development of a frontal lobe of the brain. Even then, one could ask, how advanced are we really? We still retain primal instincts, like all other mammals, we still fight over resources (water, food, land, home territory), maintain our reproductive urges, hunt and kill and forage for survival, and maintain our desire to belong to a pack or group. In some aspects, we're actually less evolved than major predatory animals.

I feel compelled to explain this position because it's difficult to think outside of the box of religious teachings. I don't disregard religion as being a powerful motivator for great things, but I also don't regard it as being scientifically probable. Atheism is truly a lack of belief. Nothing more, nothing less. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Satan or God. As Atheists, we choose to require proof of extraordinary things instead of existing in this life as nothing more than a blind fool. My wish for the future is that whether we are religious people or non-religious people, that we can live together on this planet peacefully and without spite or hatred for one another. The teachings of Jesus Christ can be applied regardless of whether or not you believe the story. Love thy neighbor.

[mandrake137]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

What I think is interesting is not a single person attempted to refute anything I had to say on page 5. It must be hard to argue against logical thought processes when all you have is fairytales.