[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

Would you stone your own son if he disobeyed you?

What? I'd thrash him at first. But of course I wouldn't stone him if he was still stubborn and wouldn't respond to being chastened.

Biblical law demands that if he will not obey me even though I have tried everything possible then I should bring him to the elders.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

So I wouldn't stone him; all the men of the city would stone him.

However, at the moment secular law prevents this so we have to put up with stubborn rebellious brats growing up into stubborn, rebellious men who then fill our prisons to breaking point. Secular law is so wise.

[Hamish]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

Would you stone your own son if he disobeyed you?

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

So your god would have no problem letting innocent and good people burn in a lake of fire for all eternity even if they had never even heard of jesus or christianity? Not to mention he's killed more people than satan has in your stories. Even if he came down here and said everything in the bible were true I would still refuse to follow such an egotistical scum bag. That isn't a loving benevolent god, he's more akin to a bratty child with a magnifying class killing ants or a sociopath killing people that don't like him.

You're free to hate God if you like. The problem with hating God is that He burns you forever if you do.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

i found the quote button

for such an easy question you have succeeded in providing an incredibly vague answer. In any case, my question is directed to YOUR personal interpretation. How am I supposed to understand and be redeemed without seeing into the minds of those already saved?

We follow the Bible. How does MY opinion come into it? The Bible guides me in everything.

[Alphonse Alban]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

no problem letting innocent and good people burn in a lake of fire for all eternity even if they had never even heard of jesus or christianity?

Don't be silly, of course they are not innocent and good. They are heathens and sinners.

[Hamish]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

[QUOTE=Alphonse Alban;804853]OK, except that I did not post any links. Anywhoo, it is true that I would like to see people saved, but if people choose not to follow word of God, it's their fault. If Jesus in heaven has no problem with listening people tortured in hell, then I won't see any problem with it.

So your god would have no problem letting innocent and good people burn in a lake of fire for all eternity even if they had never even heard of jesus or christianity? Not to mention he's killed more people than satan has in your stories. Even if he came down here and said everything in the bible were true I would still refuse to follow such an egotistical scum bag. That isn't a loving benevolent god, he's more akin to a bratty child with a magnifying class killing ants or a sociopath killing people that don't like him.

[cobdog]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

I don't mind at all.

I'm a 25-year-old veteran with training in field-deployable mob-comm "solutions" and some other things that aren't important. I'm currently a carpenter, but I can adapt to my customer's needs as required. I went through language training at the DLI (Russian primary, Farsi secondary), but self-study went way past their capabilities.

How about you?

YiC,

Zech

17 year old student, prospective historian.

Alphonse Alban: apologies if i misquoted you

[Alphonse Alban]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

So I read the link you posted, and I came across a section in which as a christian you believe that you can't sit idly by and let us be tormented in hell.

OK, except that I did not post any links. Anywhoo, it is true that I would like to see people saved, but if people choose not to follow word of God, it's their fault. If Jesus in heaven has no problem with listening people tortured in hell, then I won't see any problem with it.

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

no worries you too, I've seen people get quite heated in these discussions.

Latin, well there you go just the only real problem I see with language is dynamics. I'm not sure how well this applies to the bible, having studied language you're likely more knowledgable than I. One example that comes to mind is the word virgin, which in past societies has denoted a young woman, not necessarily one that's pure.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? and what do you do? I don't mean to be invasive I'm just trying to get some context on your person

I don't mind at all.

I'm a 25-year-old veteran with training in field-deployable mob-comm "solutions" and some other things that aren't important. I'm currently a carpenter, but I can adapt to my customer's needs as required. I went through language training at the DLI (Russian primary, Farsi secondary), but self-study went way past their capabilities.

How about you?

YiC,

Zech

[cobdog]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

First off, I want to thank you for keeping things civil. You would be amazed at the people who visit here who fail to do that. I appreciate it, sincerely.



As far as translations, the 1611 KJV is the "top of the heap" so to speak, although there are others that some of the senior pastors have grudgingly given their blessing to (the NASV for instance). I am not privy to all of the decision making on that, so I stick with the 1611 KJV just to be safe: it's the one that God has approved unequivocally.

As far as languages, I obviously speak English but I also speak German, some French, a little Spanish, and I studied Latin for 3 years (not conversational, natch). The myth of the uneducated Christian is exactly that...a myth.

As far as taxis and McDonalds: I drive a Yukon Denali so I have no need of taxis, and I despise Scottish food.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

no worries you too, I've seen people get quite heated in these discussions.

Latin, well there you go just the only real problem I see with language is dynamics. I'm not sure how well this applies to the bible, having studied language you're likely more knowledgable than I. One example that comes to mind is the word virgin, which in past societies has denoted a young woman, not necessarily one that's pure.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? and what do you do? I don't mean to be invasive I'm just trying to get some context on your person

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

noted

however you don't realise but when you read something you unintentionally put your own spin on it. Your understanding and interpretation of the english language and the words used are different to when it was initially translated. Speaking of which, perhaps your beliefs are subject to the bibles translations (unless you've read one of the earlier latin versions). Is it not possible that translators may have purposefully or accidentally misrepresented biblical truth?

Public benches were just an example. I could say the same of sitting in a taxi, in a seat at McDonalds, etc. It just seems to me there are some sins it is impossible to avoid

First off, I want to thank you for keeping things civil. You would be amazed at the people who visit here who fail to do that. I appreciate it, sincerely.



As far as translations, the 1611 KJV is the "top of the heap" so to speak, although there are others that some of the senior pastors have grudgingly given their blessing to (the NASV for instance). I am not privy to all of the decision making on that, so I stick with the 1611 KJV just to be safe: it's the one that God has approved unequivocally.

As far as languages, I obviously speak English but I also speak German, some French, a little Spanish, and I studied Latin for 3 years (not conversational, natch). The myth of the uneducated Christian is exactly that...a myth.

As far as taxis and McDonalds: I drive a Yukon Denali so I have no need of taxis, and I despise Scottish food.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[cobdog]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

Yes and no. I take It (The Word of God) literally. I do not interpret. I do and believe what it tells me. There's enough in there to remember without me putting my personal "spin" on it.





Of course they aren't. If they discard ONE SINGLE THING from the Bible, they will burn in hell for eternity.



Why would you sit on a public bench? That's for hobos, hookers and drug abusers. Why take that chance? Public benches are a tool of the godless liberals to trick people into being hellbound.

YiC,

Zech

noted

however you don't realise but when you read something you unintentionally put your own spin on it. Your understanding and interpretation of the english language and the words used are different to when it was initially translated. Speaking of which, perhaps your beliefs are subject to the bibles translations (unless you've read one of the earlier latin versions). Is it not possible that translators may have purposefully or accidentally misrepresented biblical truth?

Public benches were just an example. I could say the same of sitting in a taxi, in a seat at McDonalds, etc. It just seems to me there are some sins it is impossible to avoid

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

so by follow the bible you mean a literal interpretation of its lessons?

Yes and no. I take It (The Word of God) literally. I do not interpret. I do and believe what it tells me. There's enough in there to remember without me putting my personal "spin" on it.

I believe you about the bible thing, so these people, they're not true christians?

Of course they aren't. If they discard ONE SINGLE THING from the Bible, they will burn in hell for eternity.

And with your example of the menstruating female thing, how do you actually mediate that? What if I sit on a public bench? Is it possible to confess for sins you don't know you've committed?

Why would you sit on a public bench? That's for hobos, hookers and drug abusers. Why take that chance? Public benches are a tool of the godless liberals to trick people into being hellbound.

YiC,

Zech

[cobdog]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

How is "one who follows the Bible" vague? If you take that at face value, something EVERY True Christian™ does, it's one of the simplest explanations of our spiritual nature imaginable.

Look, there are a lot of "christians" out there who claim to "follow" the Bible.

THEY DON'T.

Friend, I am not going to sugarcoat this in any way. I'd be willing to wager (if I were still a gambling man) that over 99% of the people who "follow" the Bible have never READ the Bible. How am I so sure? I can quote verse after verse after verse to them, and ask them for their opinions on said verses, and they will claim that the verse is not even in the Bible.



I'll provide a few if you don't believe me, but let's just say that I know of people in my own family who will actually sit in a chair where a menstruating female has sat previously.

Sick. Sick. SICK.



I hope you will discard your suspicions and join me on a path that is destined for GLORY!

YiC,

Zech

so by follow the bible you mean a literal interpretation of its lessons?

I believe you about the bible thing, so these people, they're not true christians? And with your example of the menstruating female thing, how do you actually mediate that? What if I sit on a public bench? Is it possible to confess for sins you don't know you've committed?

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Water Proves Atheism is False!

i found the quote button

for such an easy question you have succeeded in providing an incredibly vague answer. In any case, my question is directed to YOUR personal interpretation. How am I supposed to understand and be redeemed without seeing into the minds of those already saved?

How is "one who follows the Bible" vague? If you take that at face value, something EVERY True Christian(tm) does, it's one of the simplest explanations of our spiritual nature imaginable.

Look, there are a lot of "christians" out there who claim to "follow" the Bible.

THEY DON'T.

Friend, I am not going to sugarcoat this in any way. I'd be willing to wager (if I were still a gambling man) that over 99% of the people who "follow" the Bible have never READ the Bible. How am I so sure? I can quote verse after verse after verse to them, and ask them for their opinions on said verses, and they will claim that the verse is not even in the Bible.



I'll provide a few if you don't believe me, but let's just say that I know of people in my own family who will actually sit in a chair where a menstruating female has sat previously.

Sick. Sick. SICK.



I hope you will discard your suspicions and join me on a path that is destined for GLORY!

YiC,

Zech