[Citan]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

Changing one element to another??? That is called alchemy and has been discredited by your scientists! It's also a form of black magic.

Christ changed water into wine, if memory serves well. And I do not think he was an alchemist, he is the son of God, and science could perfectly explain how that was possible. God imbued Jesus with the energy to change the atomic structure in the jars and change water into wine though a very specific nuclear synthesis. Science can defend faith instead of attack it! It's a matter of perspective.

But see, for every "explanation" you give, more questions come up.

• How do you examine the stars for the presence nuclei heavier than hydrogen and helium? The stars are light years away. Nuclei are so small that can't even be seen with an electron microscope. So how can you see something so small from so far away?

With an object called a spectrograph. It analizes the light waves that we see from earth and gives us the frequencies of those waves. Each element has a specific wavelight emission frequency. Like tuning in on radio stations, if you find a signal of a certain number, you can be sure who's broadcasting it.

How do you know the Crab Nebula first became visible on Earth in 1054? Maybe that is when it was first discovered?

That's exactly what he meant. Optic lenses of enough capacity to discern it weren't invented until then. Of course the crab nebula could have been lying there since creation.

But what you are doing is confusing the model for the truth. Did not Copernicus' theories accurately predict astronomical events even if the model was later to be proven wrong? What of Newton? It doesn't matter if Einstein's model helps explain the truth, it is not the truth just a method of explanation.

Actually, Copernicus was close enough to the truth as he was technically capable of



Except for the fact that there are more planets and the trajectories are eliptical, even the distances he calculated between planets were pretty close to our present calculations. He didn't have the tools we have today, but with the lenses he could get for his telescopes and the quality of rulers (and thus the measurements), he did a pretty good job.

But now you are comparing apples to oranges. Water boiling is something you can experiment for yourself. You can measure it and once it reaches 212°F at sea-level, it will boil. So we can conclude that that is actual science. However, I'm asking, can you, Dan, measure the nuclei of stars?

If you can get your hands on a spectrograph and use it correctly, you will be able to experiment it yourself.

That is my point. When it comes to trusting the words of scientists, it is faith. The only science I trust is the stuff I see and touch. The sky is blue, yes. Bears eat meat, yes. But much of "science" for all its sound and fury is nothing more than taking the words of people on blind faith.

Some theories in science are just theories, that part is correct. And most of the current laws of physics are mere approximations for very complex phenomena. But that is what makes science intersesting, it's not and never will be complete. May not be as perfect as God's Holy Word, but it fills some blanks in the curious minds. Not necessarily of atheists. If anything, science can support faith in God for the believers, not diminish it.

[nonethanks]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

But see, for every "explanation" you give, more questions come up.



[*]Changing one element to another??? That is called alchemy and has been discredited by your scientists! It's also a form of black magic.
.
.
.
But now you are comparing apples to oranges. Water boiling is something you can experiment for yourself. You can measure it and once it reaches 212°F at sea-level, it will boil. So we can conclude that that is actual science. However, I'm asking, can you, Dan, measure the nuclei of stars?

That is my point. When it comes to trusting the words of scientists, it is faith. The only science I trust is the stuff I see and touch. The sky is blue, yes. Bears eat meat, yes. But much of "science" for all its sound and fury is nothing more than taking the words of people on blind faith.

*warning! scientific text, do not read if you find this offensive*
changing one element into another is possible, for example when a radioactive object finally loses it's radioactivity it will be a jumble of different elements, since an element is defined by the amount of electrons and protons in it (and radioactivity consists in either electrons or protons flinging themselves away due to an imbalance in an atom)
*end of scientific text*

i however do agree with you in your opinion on modern science, it's more based around theories and dogmas than actual research

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

But see, for every "explanation" you give, more questions come up.

-Yes, I understand how nucleosythesis works. It's happening right now, in nuclear reactors that provide electricity in many in the United States and around the world. Nuclear reactions can result in the increase of decrease in the number of protons in an atom, thus changing one element to another. Nuclear reactors that are set up as breeder reactors are designed so that uranium produces fissile plutonium as a byproduct, which can then be used for further nuclear reactions. Examinations of stars have shown the presence of nuclei heavier than hydrogen and helium, and the process by which to create heavier nuclei from lighter ones is well demonstrated in stars.

• Changing one element to another??? That is called alchemy and has been discredited by your scientists! It's also a form of black magic.
• How do you examine the stars for the presence nuclei heavier than hydrogen and helium? The stars are light years away. Nuclei are so small that can't even be seen with an electron microscope. So how can you see something so small from so far away?

-We have seen stellar material dispersed from supernovas to form nebulai.
For example, the supernova that gave rise to the Crab Nebula, for example, first became visible to those on Earth in 1054. All powerful telescopes can observe the nebula and it's coordinates in relation to the description of the supernova in 1054 match perfectly.

How do you know the Crab Nebula first became visible on Earth in 1054? Maybe that is when it was first discovered? I look up at the stars at night and don't see a Crab Nebula. You would have to point it out to me and I would go "Oh, there it is!". Maybe someone just looking really hard discovered it in 1054? America existed before Columbus discovered it.

-Einstein's E=mc^2 theory has consistently and accurately predicted both the change in mass and amount of energy released in nuclear reactions since we have had means by which to measure them. It's the same principle that has shown that gravity on the surface of the earth is 32ft/s/s: the results of repeated experiments have yielded results consistent with what the theory predicts.

But what you are doing is confusing the model for the truth. Did not Copernicus' theories accurately predict astronomical events even if the model was later to be proven wrong? What of Newton? It doesn't matter if Einstein's model helps explain the truth, it is not the truth just a method of explanation.

-Blind faith is belief without evidence. This is acceptance after consistent evidence points to believable conclusion. Much the same as you belief that when you water will boil when you heat it to 212°F at sea-level, because all the evidence you have points to that conclusion.

[/quote]

But now you are comparing apples to oranges. Water boiling is something you can experiment for yourself. You can measure it and once it reaches 212°F at sea-level, it will boil. So we can conclude that that is actual science. However, I'm asking, can you, Dan, measure the nuclei of stars?

That is my point. When it comes to trusting the words of scientists, it is faith. The only science I trust is the stuff I see and touch. The sky is blue, yes. Bears eat meat, yes. But much of "science" for all its sound and fury is nothing more than taking the words of people on blind faith.

[thegreatdan]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

Wrong again. We have God's assessment. You have satan's.

Was it delivered before or after 325?

[Myron Pollard]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

Attacking the source?

If you have not trusted Christ, I hope that you won't continue to reject His offer of life.He always has His way--the choice is yours to accept or reject.

[thegreatdan]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

No, you have your logical phalluses. Your ad hominem arguments from authority and omniscience and jargon blitz only proves how dumb you nonbelievers really are.

Attacking the source?

[thegreatdan]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

Wow so much techno-babble and using complex words to make the argument sound truthful. Do you even understand how these processes supposedly work? How do we know there is stellar nucleosynthesis? How do you know material ended up in a nebula? How do you even know Einstein was correct with his E=mc^2 formula? Are you a mathematician? Have you double-checked his work?

Blind faith, that is all you have. You trust the words of scientists and trust their interpretations based on what?

-Yes, I understand how nucleosythesis works. It's happening right now, in nuclear reactors that provide electricity in many in the United States and around the world. Nuclear reactions can result in the increase of decrease in the number of protons in an atom, thus changing one element to another. Nuclear reactors that are set up as breeder reactors are designed so that uranium produces fissile plutonium as a byproduct, which can then be used for further nuclear reactions. Examinations of stars have shown the presence of nuclei heavier than hydrogen and helium, and the process by which to create heavier nuclei from lighter ones is well demonstrated in stars.

-We have seen stellar material dispersed from supernovas to form nebulai.
For example, the supernova that gave rise to the Crab Nebula, for example, first became visible to those on Earth in 1054. All powerful telescopes can observe the nebula and it's coordinates in relation to the description of the supernova in 1054 match perfectly.

-Einstein's E=mc^2 theory has consistently and accurately predicted both the change in mass and amount of energy released in nuclear reactions since we have had means by which to measure them. It's the same principle that has shown that gravity on the surface of the earth is 32ft/s/s: the results of repeated experiments have yielded results consistent with what the theory predicts.

-Blind faith is belief without evidence. This is acceptance after consistent evidence points to believable conclusion. Much the same as you belief that when you water will boil when you heat it to 212°F at sea-level, because all the evidence you have points to that conclusion.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

You have your assessment. I have mine.

Wrong again. We have God's assessment. You have satan's.

[Tertius The Scribe]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

You have your assessment. I have mine.

No, you have your logical phalluses. Your ad hominem arguments from authority and omniscience and jargon blitz only proves how dumb you nonbelievers really are.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

Yes! Listen to Old Man Myron! He is quite wise in his years and knows his Bible. How come you atheists like to claim that science explains things when your explanation only created many more questions than the original question you attempted to explain?

[Myron Pollard]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

You have your assessment. I have mine.

Don't put off making a decision for Jesus, tomorrow may be too late.....

[thegreatdan]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

You are a brainwashed fool with a one way ticket to damnation.

You have your assessment. I have mine.

[Myron Pollard]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

I had no intent to mock.

You are a brainwashed fool with a one way ticket to damnation.

[thegreatdan]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

I had no intent to mock.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: WHY ARE ATHIESTS SO MISERABLE?

Remember E=Mc2? Energy and mass are the same thing, just in different forms. The sun is constantly fusing hydrogren into helium, and the helium it forms is of slightly less mass than the hydrogen to started with because a tiny amount of the initial mass was converted to energy. This is the same principle that applies to nuclear fission that forms the bases of our nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons.

At the instant of the Big Bang, all matter and energy were concentrated in a single point that began expanding outwards and cooling.

So where did rocks come from? A rock like a granite rock is composed of various compounds made up of elements like silicon, oxygen, aluminum, calcium, sodium, potassium, etc. Those elements are in turn formed by stellar nuclearsynthesis. Remember hydrogen fusing to form helium? This accounts for the vast majority of the content in all the stars in the Universe and thus the majority of all the matter in the Universe. As a star begins to run out of hydrogen, it will begin to fuse helium under immense pressure, to form heavier elements such all the way up to iron (remember that an element is determined by the number of protons in the atom's nucleus, so these immense pressures keep fusing lighter nuclei with fewer protons together to form heavier elements with more protons in their nuclei). After iron, no more heavier elements can be formed unless the star explodes in a supernova. The incredible forces in a supernova are sufficient to fuse the elements that had already formed in the star to fuse into all the other naturally occuring elements in the Universe. These elements are flung far across space as a result of the incredible explosion coming from the supernova. Some of that material ended up in the planetary nebula that ended forming our solar system several billion years ago which is how those elements ended up as part of the earth. The energy left over from the earth's initial formation is what's responsible for the molten core at the center of the earth (which is mostly made of nickel, if I recall correctly) and that is responsible for the volcanic activity we see on the earth. It's the energy and movement of matter from volcanism that caused all the elements that go into granite to mix together to create the rock New Hampshire prides itself on.

Wow so much techno-babble and using complex words to make the argument sound truthful. Do you even understand how these processes supposedly work? How do we know there is stellar nucleosynthesis? How do you know material ended up in a nebula? How do you even know Einstein was correct with his E=mc^2 formula? Are you a mathematician? Have you double-checked his work?

Blind faith, that is all you have. You trust the words of scientists and trust their interpretations based on what?