[Thomas Taylor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Honestly, what does any of your inane bickering have anything to do with praising Jesus?

Sister Mary, thank you for your timely words of wisdom and accept my deepest apologies for engaging this senseless harlot in debate.

It seems that despite being shown dozens of examples of her sub classes' unspeakable acts she still refuses to accept that she and her fellow goths are deviants. Either that or she can't read.

As the saying goes, there are none so blind as those who cannot see.

This little saying brings to my mind another of my favourite verses:

MAtthew 15:14

Let them alone: they be blinde leaders of the blinde. And if the blinde lead the blinde, both shall fall into the ditch.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

This is a wholly inappropriate discussion for the Lord's Day.

I have been singing that lovely Hymn, "Search me O God," all day. It is such an encouraging Psalm, I will post it now so that we can rejoice together.

. . . . . . . . . Psalm 145
(To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.)

O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.
Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
.......For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.
.......Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
.......Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.



Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
.......Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
.......If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
.......Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.



For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
.......Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance
.......were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
.......How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
.......If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.



Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
.......I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
.......Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
.......And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

So often in the modern world we face derision and temptation. Satan is the origin of both of those, whether he is obvious as in the purpling face and bulging eyes of the taunting demoniac or not. As for example when that well groomed stranger offers liquid refreshment by the roadside on a gruelling summer's day. It is not really refreshment is it.

And just as David recognised whom to admire and whom to hate, The LORD knowing his downsitting and his uprising, understanding his thought afar off, compassing his path and his lying down and being acquainted with all his ways, so in The Pastoral Team I see Him reflected Rev'd Flint's downsittings, uprisings, thought from afar off, paths trodden and lyings down being equally well discerned by The Holy Spirit.

And that is manifest in his sermons. As we come together on The LORD's day, we are reminded of release from sin in the joyous moment of Salvation and say "Thank you" that His Fountain has been opened within us.

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. KJV

Prophecy fulfilled!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Attila's Wife]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Honestly, what does any of your inane bickering have anything to do with praising Jesus?

Thank you for the timely rebuke, Sister. This is a wholly inappropriate discussion for the Lord's Day.

Praise Him!

And now it's time to get myself into the kitchen.

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Honestly, what does any of your inane bickering have anything to do with praising Jesus?

What does any of the "evidence" against Goths you provide actually have to do with Goths?

Amen Sister. Sometimes even a Christian can lose track and be drawn into endless debate with heathens who will not listen.

We are here to praise Him.

Praise His name!

The end could be at hand, if only someone could provide legitimate proof. Keep changing the subject, you only do it because you know you have nothing legitimate to offer.

[Alvin Moss]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Honestly, what does any of your inane bickering have anything to do with praising Jesus?

Amen Sister. Sometimes even a Christian can lose track and be drawn into endless debate with heathens who will not listen.

We are here to praise Him.

Praise His name!

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

But honestly, what does any of this have to do with how you were supposedly to be proving that Goths do drugs or are murderers?

Honestly, what does any of your inane bickering have anything to do with praising Jesus?

[Alvin Moss]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

You seem to be running out of steam. Do you hear a buzzing in your ears?

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

I believe this is a woman, due to the apparent lack of an adams apple.

However, I should note that I have some concerns that the false beard line across the cheekbone may be an attempt to cover a real beard line, the adams apple having possibly been removed. It is clear to me that many Goths are transvestites and surgically tampered with individuals.

That may explain the fact that this picture was obviously taken shortly before some kind of surgery, possibly breast augmentation or radical circumcision.

Honestly, I think that is a bad attempt at making your cheeks look hollower. And why are you so sure that is in any type of medical office? That looks like a copier in the background, which I don't think would be in a room where surgery would be performed. Actually, unless you are working for a medical office, I don't think you'd be in a room with a copy machine. I've never seen one accept behind a receptionist's desk. This could easily be an office for a multitude of professions, and it could be in a school classroom. Wouldn't you be told not to wear metal when having surgery?

But honestly, what does any of this have to do with how you were supposedly to be proving that Goths do drugs or are murderers?

[Alvin Moss]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Mostly tl;dr as per usual, but as to the above, well yes, of course, but why?

Here he or she is, in all its glory. The rest of you may want to look away now, as it's not a pretty sight. I'm hoping a moderator will be along to remove this foul image shortly.



The picture appears to have been taken in a doctor's surgery.

I believe this is a woman, due to the apparent lack of an adams apple.

However, I should note that I have some concerns that the false beard line across the cheekbone may be an attempt to cover a real beard line, the adams apple having possibly been removed. It is clear to me that many Goths are transvestites and surgically tampered with individuals.

That may explain the fact that this picture was obviously taken shortly before some kind of surgery, possibly breast augmentation or radical circumcision.

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Methamphetamine will take over your tounge for the Devil. He always has a whole lot to say and that is why he favors meth.

Quack, quack, quack... when you have heard one meth head go off on a tangent, you have heard them all. By the time you get to incomprehensible mumbling, in a day or two, you won't be able to type. That will spare us your most bizarre ramblings.

Yet again...someone who knows they cannot provide any such proof, so they pretend not to understand precise English. It never fails.

[Alvin Moss]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Methamphetamine will take over your tounge for the Devil. He always has a whole lot to say and that is why he favors meth.

Quack, quack, quack... when you have heard one meth head go off on a tangent, you have heard them all. By the time you get to incomprehensible mumbling, in a day or two, you won't be able to type. That will spare us your most bizarre ramblings.

[Barbariana(aka fatuglywhoreofravensock)]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Look here woman. You have every kind of excuse to try to hide the truth. It will not work.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Hide the truth? I'm still waiting for you to say anything that IS the truth about the Goth scene.

"I have made no such "points"."

So you disagree with the Landover Baptist Church? How nice. Then don't act like you have to prove anything for them and just stay out of that aspect of the discussion?

"My personal opinion is that goths are mostly just silly teenagers."

The truth though, is that very few teenagers know what Goth is.

" But are you telling us that goths, when committing crimes, identify themselves by wearing a particular type of t-shirt?"

No. I am telling you that Goths are fans of Goth Rock. So if you, or your church, want to show that Goths commit the crimes your church claims, you need to show evidence that Goths are actually committing these crimes. All that has been shown is that the media has claimed Goth is involved, your church claims Goth is involved, and that some of these idiot criminals claim to be Goth. Nothing has been shown to prove that these cases your church claims as evidence actually have anything to do with the Goth scene. As I've explained multiple times in precise English, if they are not fans of Goth Rock, they are not Goth. Where is the proof these criminals are Goths? Where is the proof they listen to GOTH ROCK?

"And that if they aren't photographed wearing these shirts at the time, they aren't goths?"

Internet has been a huge thing for how many years now? I'm pretty sure if any of these criminals were Goth, you could find some kind of evidence they listen to Goth Rock. Whether at the time of the crime or o a different day. They do not have to be wearing a Goth band t-shirt at the time of arrest or criminal act. Provide me with an article stating a crime has been committed by a fan of a Goth Rock band. Or find me an article about a crime you think has to do with the Goth scene, and then find the person who has committed the crime's profile. If they are Goth, there should be something on one of their online profiles to show this.

Another suggestion would be to find an article about an arrest being made at a Goth club or concert, or a Goth club being raided for drugs. The article should mention the name of the club, as well as what day the arrest or raid happened. With that information, it should be relatively easy to look up the club, and find out what the theme night was for the night in question, and whether or not Goth Rock was included.

For example. Most clubs that claim to be Goth/Industrial clubs or have Goth nights, have the Goth theme on specific nights. Orpheus has changed theirs a few times over the years, but Obscura (the now defunct Goth night) was held on the first Friday of the month. Batz Over Baltimore is held at the Depot on the 3rd Saturday of every month. Many Goth clubs, nights, and DJs, will post their setlists within a week. So it shouldn't be too hard to find out if the person committed the crime were probably Goth.

I wore an Ensiferum shirt the other day. Ensiferum are a Pagan/Viking themed Metal band. That doesn't mean I wasn't Goth that day. You don't stop being a fan of Goth Rock just because you're not wearing a Goth band shirt that day. But by just looking at me, another Goth who had never met me wouldn't realize I was a Goth because they'd have no way to know. Unless when they saw me wearing that Ensiferum shirt, I was in a Goth club dancing to or obviously enjoying the Goth Rock being played.

"

Yes, that's what she's saying
But she doesn't understand what the words actually mean

"

I have never said nor implied that a Goth is only Goth when wearing a Goth band shirt. Nor have I ever said or implied that a Goth can only listen to Goth Rock. However, you cannot tell if someone is Goth unless

A. They are wearing some kind of Goth band merchandise

B. They tell you what bands they listen to and some of the bands they mention are Goth.

C. You see them dancing to or obviously enjoyed a Goth song.

D. They often attend Goth theme nights (which clearly play real Goth Rock)

E. You look at their profile and see some evidence that they are a fan of Goth Rock on it.

Really. How can we know that someone who committed a school shooting is Goth unless we know they listen to Goth Rock?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

I have made no such "points". My personal opinion is that goths are mostly just silly teenagers. But are you telling us that goths, when committing crimes, identify themselves by wearing a particular type of t-shirt? And that if they aren't photographed wearing these shirts at the time, they aren't goths?

Yes, that's what she's saying
But she doesn't understand what the words actually mean

[Attila's Wife]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

You obviously did not read the entire post, which seems a bit silly.

- a bit silly
+ eminently sensible

Why would I want you to post an image of someone in a Bauhaus shirt for no reason?

Why would you want me to do anything?

If you had read the entire post,

Why would I do that?

which was not the least bit random,

you would know that I was suggesting evidence you could use to prove these "points" of yours; that Goths are murders, drug addicts, etc.

I have made no such "points". My personal opinion is that goths are mostly just silly teenagers. But are you telling us that goths, when committing crimes, identify themselves by wearing a particular type of t-shirt? And that if they aren't photographed wearing these shirts at the time, they aren't goths?

Bored now. Bye bye.

I will pray for you,
YiC
Attila's Wife

[Alvin Moss]

Re: 101 REASONS WHY GOD HATES GOTHS!

Now if there are any other opinions you would like me to disprove, just let me know.

"USA – 105 Year old Minnesota United Church burned to the ground in a hate crime against Christianity by three sick Goth teens on the birthday of Varg Vikernes, a black metal musician now serving time in prison in Norway for murdering a band mate and burning several churches. Vikernes has inspired dozens of copycat church burnings around the world."

Black Metal is not Goth. Black Metal fans are not Goth unless they also listen to Goth Rock. Are you calling them Goth or are you qouting an article?

"USA – Ten killed in Red Lake High School massacre by Goth Nazi Jeffrey Weise."

I have read the articles on this case. No where in any of them does it mention the word Goth or what music this kid listened to. As I pointed out earlier, this was committed by a Native American on a Native American reservation, and the victims were other Native Americans. All of whom practiced a mixture of Catholicism with Native American rituals. This had nothing to do with Goths.

Also, had I not looked these things up, I would not even know they really happened, seeing as you provided no news paper articles or anything as sources.

"USA – Goth Ben W. Fawley, "

"self-described "Goth/skater from the 1980s." "

Do you have any evidence that him calling himself Goth was not an empty or misguided claim? Do you have any evidence that he in fact listened to Goth Rock? Many people, teens and even older, call themselves Goth when they do not listen to Goth Rock and do not know what Goth actually is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Taylor_Behl

The only mention of the word Goth is that he "self-described Goth." Sounds more like another ignorant perswon giving a scene he is not a part of a bad name.

" David Rodriguez,"

articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-11-28/news/0511280226_1_satanic-ritual-rodriguez-home-david-rodriguez

No mention anywhere of the word Goth, or of any bands he listened to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Dyleski

Only mention of the word Gothic. No mentions of the word Goth. And there is no specification about what these "Gothic" symbols were. Did the judge mean pentagrams? Ankhs? These would suggest he was into the occult, not necessarily the Goth music scene. I highly doubt what is meant by "Gothic symbols" is the logo for Goth bands, they would probably have just mentioned the bands he was into if this was the case.


"Prosecutor Harold Jewett said Dyleski identified with Gothic symbols and art that depicted violence"

You have failed to prove that any of these people listened to Goth Rock, bands that sound like Bauhaus/The Banshees/Sisters of Mercy. You have failed to prove that any of these people were actually Goths.

The website you linked is not a reliable source. Whoever wrote the article did not research the subject well, which often happens in the media. They care more about sensationalizing something, more about ratings and making a big story, than they care about the truth.

That article talks about Columbine and other shootings having to do with the Goth subculture, then goes on to talk about the Goth subculture itself and when it started, while leaving out the names of the bands who started it. It then goes on to say this

"The term “Goth” refers to all categories of Gothics, from Emo ‘Goths’ to black metal ‘Goths’ to vampire ‘Goths; from thrasher ‘Goths’ to punk ‘Goths’ to industrial ‘Goths.’ “Goth” is just a word the media uses to group a certain type of people together. The Goth culture includes Emos/ punks/ Wiccan witches/ self-abusers/ thrashers/ grungers/ heavy metallers, et cetera. This includes the Marilyn Manson, AC/DC, Smashing Pumpkins, Van Halen and Ozzy Osbourne crowd as well."

Showing that proper research was not done, or the reporter did the research, but just left out the names of the actual Goth bands because had they added them, they could not have made it look like Marilyn Manson and Black Metal fans have any connection to the Goth scene.

This also looks like the same "article" that is posted on GodhatesGoth.com, which was created by your church. So basically you're showing me a bunch of supposedly "accurate" resources, all written by members of your church. The same article that I, and others, have been trying to tell you is incorrect.

From Wikipedia

"According to music journalist Simon Reynolds, standard musical fixtures of gothic rock include "scything guitar patterns, high-pitched Joy Division basslines that often usurped the melodic role [and] beats that were either hypnotically dirgelike or 'tribal'".[5] Reynolds described the vocal style as consisting of "deep, droning alloys of Jim Morrison and Leonard Cohen".[5] Siouxsie and the Banshees tended to play the flanging guitar effect, producing a brittle, cold and harsh sound that contrasted with their psychedelic rock predecessors.[6] Several acts used drum machines that do not stress the back beat in the rhythm.[7]"

None of that describes Marilyn Manson or the Black Metal genre.

Taken from this site http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm


"
Goth is an alternative subculture; it is both a style of music and a fashion, like Punk. People who listen to the music don't necessarily dress in the style, and people who look like goths don't necessarily like the music either - a lot of metal fans have adopted the goth look, making for a great deal of confusion


However, on the rare occasion that someone looks like a goth and likes goth music, chances are they're actually a goth."

From the Rules for the Gothic Rock forum on VampireGeeks.com

1. The discussion of gothic metal is a big no, no. Gothic metal is a subgenre of metal, not gothic rock or deathrock. If you're unsure if the band you want to mention is goth, refer to the list of bands below.

http://VampireGeeks.com/forum/comment.php?entry=533103

"Do you want some more?"

How can I want more when you did not provide me with ANY proof that fans of GOTH ROCK were responsible?



So you're showing me a picture of a random person in a Bauhaus shirt. What is supposed to be being proven here? I see no one being murdered, no drugs, no way to identify who this Goth is, no article posted with this image saying this Goth has committed any crime, no profile for this person being posted showing they have admitted to any crime.

Look here woman. You have every kind of excuse to try to hide the truth. It will not work.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.