[Unsaved, definitely]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

Jesus DID NOT die for everyone

He died for those that BELIEVE.



Everyone doesn't believe in Jesus, thus they will perish.

Another false Christian failure.

But does God not reach his hand out to all people? This is also a contradiction to what you say, that God hates certain people.

I'm not saying that people shall not perish because they don't believe in Him, but God tells us to love our fellow man,

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." John 4:8

[David Goldman]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

But does God not reach his hand out to all people? This is also a contradiction to what you say, that God hates certain people.

I'm not saying that people shall not perish because they don't believe in Him, but God tells us to love our fellow man,

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." John 4:8

Look -- God creates some people for the express purpose of destroying them. In that way He is glorified.

Refer to Romans 9 please.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

[Unsaved, definitely]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

Look -- God creates some people for the express purpose of destroying them. In that way He is glorified.

Refer to Romans 9 please.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

I though God gave humans free will, which is why some of us go to hell? NOT because god intently destroys us?

[James Hutchins]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

I though God gave humans free will, which is why some of us go to hell? NOT because god intently destroys us?

He gave us free will to have the chance to honestly repent our sins and prove it by living sin free. For example, even mis-quoting God's Scripture is a sin. Sorry.

[David Goldman]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

I though God gave humans free will, which is why some of us go to hell? NOT because god intently destroys us?

God also knows the future, so you can argue the free will thing both ways.

You should read the story of the Exodus: God says at the beginning that he will harden Pharaoh's heart (Ex 4:21, 7:4-5). The hardening of Pharaoh's heart is then described in several different ways:

Pharaoh's heart became hard (Ex 7:13, 23)
Pharaoh hardened his heart (Ex 8:15, 32)
God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 9:7, 10:20)

However, when the Bible says Pharaoh hardens his heart, it also says that this happened "just as the Lord had said" (Ex 8:15). In particular, consider Exodus 9:34-10:2:

When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts. So Pharaoh's heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the LORD had said through Moses.

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the LORD."

Now you can spin it however you like, but the end result remains the same. Pharaoh was created as a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction, so that God's power could be manifested and so He could be glorified. That was the only possible outcome of that encounter.

[Unsaved, definitely]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

God also knows the future, so you can argue the free will thing both ways.

You should read the story of the Exodus: God says at the beginning that he will harden Pharaoh's heart (Ex 4:21, 7:4-5). The hardening of Pharaoh's heart is then described in several different ways:

Pharaoh's heart became hard (Ex 7:13, 23)
Pharaoh hardened his heart (Ex 8:15, 32)
God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 9:7, 10:20)

However, when the Bible says Pharaoh hardens his heart, it also says that this happened "just as the Lord had said" (Ex 8:15). In particular, consider Exodus 9:34-10:2:

When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts. So Pharaoh's heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the LORD had said through Moses.

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the LORD."

Now you can spin it however you like, but the end result remains the same. Pharaoh was created as a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction, so that God's power could be manifested and so He could be glorified. That was the only possible outcome of that encounter.

Oooh, you put up a damn good debate haha

But looking back at the thread, you may argue that God does create people for the purpose of destroying them, but does He not love all of humanity?

[James Hutchins]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

Oooh, you put up a damn good debate haha

But looking back at the thread, you may argue that God does create people for the purpose of destroying them, but does He not love all of humanity?

No, He does not love all of humanity, he only loves those that repent and praise Him.

[David Goldman]

Re: What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin?

No, He does not love all of humanity, he only loves those that repent and praise Him.

Bingo! Matthew 7 sums that up perfectly:

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It is REALLY hard to love someone, if you never knew them.