I am a Lutheran.

[SpoonfulofSugar]

I go to Saint John's Evangelical Lutheran Church.
Please, enlighten me as to why you think my religion is blasphemy.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

I go to Saint John's Evangelical Lutheran Church.
Please, enlighten me as to why you think my religion is blasphemy.

Welcome, false Christian. Take a look at THIS.

To get right to the point, the Lutheran "religion" came out of the Catholic religion (often falsely so called a "church"). However, the Catholic religion did not come out of the Lutheran religion. Martin Luther himself was a heretic. The Lutheran religion is a child of the parent Catholic monstrosity (the "MOTHER OF HARLOTS"--Revelation 17:5).

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

Why do you hate Jews so much? I mean, I've never been a fan of the Christ-killers myself, but you lutherans really take it overboard:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=4752

Luther's advice on what to do to the Jews:


What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:
First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly_and I myself was unaware of it_will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.
In Deuteronomy 13:12 Moses writes that any city that is given to idolatry shall be totally destroyed by fire, and nothing of it shall be preserved. If he were alive today, he would be the first to set fire to the synagogues and houses of the Jews. For in Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32 he commanded very explicitly that nothing is to be added to or subtracted from his law. And Samuel says in I Samuel 15:23 that disobedience to God is idolatry. Now the Jews' doctrine at present is nothing but the additions of the rabbis and the idolatry of disobedience, so that Moses has become entirely unknown among them (as we said before), just as the Bible became unknown under the papacy in our day. So also, for Moses' sake, their schools cannot be tolerated; they defame him just as much as they do us. It is not necessary that they have their own free churches for such idolatry.
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them the fact that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.
Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.
Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17:10) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16:18, "You are Peter," etc., inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.
Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let them stay at home. I have heard it said that a rich Jew is now traveling across the country with twelve horses his ambition is to become a Kokhba devouring princes, lords, lands, and people with his usury, so that the great lords view it with jealous eyes. If you great lords and princes will not forbid such usurers the highway legally, some day a troop may gather against them, having learned from this booklet the true nature of the Jews and how one should deal with them and not protect their activities. For you, too, must not and cannot protect them unless you wish to become participants in an their abominations in the sight of God. Consider carefully what good could come from this, and prevent it.
Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us an they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.
Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen. 3 [:19]). For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting., and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.
But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., if they had to serve and work for us -- for it is reasonable to assume that such noble lords of the world and venomous, bitter worms are not accustomed to working and would be very reluctant to humble themselves so deeply before the accursed Goyim -- then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., compute with them how much their usury has extorted from us, divide, divide this amicably, but then eject them forever from the country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!
In brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule: if my counsel does not please you, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews ... Do not grant them protection, safe-conduct, or communion with us ... so it is not necessary to burden ourselves also with these alien, shameful vices of the Jews ...
And you, my dear gentlemen and friends who are pastors and preachers, I wish to remind very faithfully of your official duty, so that you too may warn your parishioners concerning their eternal harm, as you know how to do, namely, that they be on their guard against the Jews and avoid them so far as possible. When you lay eyes on or think of a Jew you must say to your self: Alas, that mouth which I there behold has cursed and execrated and maligned every Saturday my dear Lord Jesus Christ, who has redeemed me with his precious blood; in addition, it prayed and pleaded before God that I, my wife and children, and all Christians might be stabbed to death and perish miserably. And he himself would gladly do this if he were able, in order to appropriate our goods ... If I were to eat, drink or talk with such a devilish mouth, I would eat or drink myself full of devils by the dish or cupful just as I surely make myself a cohort of all the devils that dwell in the Jews and that deride the precious blood of Christ. May God preserve me from this!
Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly acts, especially since they boast so proudly and despicably when we do help and serve them that God has ordained them as lords and us as servants. For instance, when a Christian kindles their fire for them on a Sabbath, or cooks for them in an inn whatever they want, they curse and defame and revile us for it, supposing this to be something praiseworthy, and yet they live on our wealth, which they have stolen from us. Such a desperate, thoroughly evil poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews, who for these fourteen hundred years have been and still are our plague, our pestilence, and our misfortune.
Especially you pastors who have Jews living in your midst, persist in reminding your lords and rulers to be mindful of their office and of their obligation before God to force the Jews to work, to forbid usury, and to check their blasphemy and cursing. For if they punish thievery, robbery, murder, blasphemy, and other vices among us Christians, why should the devilish Jews be scot-free to commit their crimes among us and against us? We suffer more from them than the Italians do from the Spaniards, who plunder the host's kitchen, cellar, chest, and purse, and, in addition, curse him and threaten him with death. Thus the Jews, our guests, also treat us; for we are their hosts. They rob and fleece us and hang about our necks, these lazy weaklings and indolent bellies; they swill and feast, enjoy good times in our homes ...
But if the authorities are reluctant to use force and restrain the Jews' devilish wantonness, the latter should, as we said, be expelled from the country ... much more leave our Lord the Messiah, our faith, and our church undefiled and uncontaminated with their devilish tyranny and malice. Any privileges that they may plead shall not help them; for no one can grant privileges for practicing such abominations. These cancel and abrogate all privileges.
If you pastors and preachers have followed my example and have faithfully issued such warnings, but neither prince nor subject will do anything about it, let us follow the advice of Christ (Matthew 10:14) and shake the dust from our shoes, and say, "We are innocent of your blood." For I observe and have often experienced how indulgent the perverted world is when it should be strict, and, conversely, how harsh it is when it should be merciful. Such was the case with King Ahab, as we find recorded in I Kings 20. That is the way the prince of this world reigns. I suppose that the princes will now wish to show mercy to the Jews, the bloodthirsty foes of our Christian and human name, in order to earn heaven thereby. But that the Jews enmesh us, harass us, torment and distress us poor Christians in every way with the above mentioned devilish and detestable deeds, this they want us to tolerate, and this is a good Christian deed, especially if there is any money involved (which they have filched and stolen from us).
What are we poor preachers to do meanwhile? In the first place, we will believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is truthful when he declares of the Jews who did not accept but crucified him, "You are a brood of vipers and children of the devil [cf. Matt. 12:34]. This is a judgment in which his forerunner John the Baptist concurred, although these people were his kin. Now our authorities and all such merciful saints as wish the Jews well will at least have to let us believe our Lord Jesus Christ, who, I am sure, has a more intimate knowledge of all hearts than do those compassionate saints. He knows that these Jews are a brood of vipers and children of the devil, that is, people who will accord us the same benefits as does their father, the devil, and by now we Christians should have learned from Scripture as well as experience just how much he wishes us well.
I have read and heard many stories about the Jews which agree with this judgment of Christ, namely, how they have poisoned wells, made assassinations, kidnaped children, as related before ... However, it all coincides with the judgment of Christ which declares that they are venomous, bitter, vindictive, tricky serpents, assassins, and children of the devil who sting and work harm stealthily wherever they cannot do it openly ... That is what I had in mind when I said earlier that, next to the devil, a Christian has no more bitter and galling foe than a Jew. There is no other to whom we accord as many benefactions and from whom we suffer as much as we do from these base children of the devil, this brood of vipers.
Now let me commend these Jews sincerely to whoever feels the desire to shelter and feed them, to honor them, to be fleeced, robbed, plundered, defamed, vilified, and cursed by them, and to suffer every evil at their hands -- these venomous serpents and devil's children, who are the most vehement enemies of Christ our Lord and of us all. And if that is not enough, let him stuff them into his mouth, or crawl into their behind and worship this holy object. Then let him boast of his mercy, then let him boast that he has strengthened the devil and his brood for further blaspheming our dear Lord and the precious blood with which we Christians are redeemed. Then he will be a perfect Christian, filled with works of mercy for which Christ will reward him on the day of judgment, together with the Jews in the eternal fire of hell!

I know, I know, he makes some very good points, but there's a line between judging in righteous judgement, and outright hatred, and at some points he clearly crosses the line.

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

That site holds no real evidence as to why the Lutheran Branch of the Christian religion is wrong. I do not believe as a Catholic believes; believing in works instead of faith, purgatory, etc..

That whole summery is nothing more than a testimony against something that who ever wrote it knows nothing about.

[Transmission]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

Why do you hate Jews so much? I mean, I've never been a fan of the Christ-killers myself, but you lutherans really take it overboard:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=4752

It is as much to question him as it is to question your beliefs on certain objectives. There is no correct belief, because it is as we know it currently, only a belief.

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

Why do you hate Jews so much? I mean, I've never been a fan of the Christ-killers myself, but you lutherans really take it overboard:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=4752

You cannot honestly assume that a man, long dead, and people today believe EXACTLY the same way, just as you can't assume that every lutheran believes the same, and JUST like every Landover Baptist does NOT believe the same. That's individuality for you.

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

I am very interested as to why you perceive faith this way?

No one knows what lies before us. Imagination is one of the strongest powers of the human and living mind. Influences change men; change our perception of life and perception of how to achieve morality and philosophy. When one accepts fate as nothing more than a mere unknown, is when we begin to realize there is much more to the world than the written words of few.

One book is no better than the other, and we have a select number of faiths; clearly because they perceive their belief to the same extent and seriousness you may. However, one book does not make anything more true than the other. Belief is a state of mind in which we hold numerous eternal things dear.

Therefore it is nowhere evident (by evident I mean factually, as the Bible, is not fact. It is as much a belief as the belief of others.). There is absolutely [b]no[/i] argument that may prove other-wise. It is however true than some of the stories that are noted in the Bible have happened, be it mere coincidence or truth (there is no absolute truth). Though, stories of other major religions have been held as accountable that they have in fact also happened. This though is easily explainable if one took a tour down history. Some amount of men wrote these beliefs and stories, they have been passed down through centuries, through families as you would pass on your belief to your children. This does not, however, mean they are all factual the the highest regard as one would find a factual notion to go and judge others beliefs.

In the end, it is still a belief. The only truth is that we are here, in flesh and bone and must work together to maintain a certain amount of tranquility in order to guarantee a place for our future children to flourish.

Amen.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

Amen.

You do realize that none of what you are agreeing with there is in any way Christian doctrine.

Have you two come to mock Jesus?

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

You cannot honestly assume that a man, long dead, and people today believe EXACTLY the same way, just as you can't assume that every lutheran believes the same, and JUST like every Landover Baptist does NOT believe the same. That's individuality for you.

Why do you call yourself the Lutheran church? Would you go to a church called the Hitleran church? Or the Attila-The-Hunleran Church? Or the Stalinist Church?

I mean, you have a choice between following our church, founded by John the Baptist, or your church, founded by some sausage-swallowing kraut who says that Jews "are full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine," and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut..."

Which of the two is closer to Christ?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

You cannot honestly assume that a man, long dead, and people today believe EXACTLY the same way, just as you can't assume that every lutheran believes the same, and JUST like every Landover Baptist does NOT believe the same. That's individuality for you.

Simply untrue. Every single True Christian™ holds the exact same beliefs. Those beliefs can be found in book form, called the Holy KJV1611 Bible, the inerrant, LITERAL Word of God.

Looterans are false Christians, so of course satan has you all in disarray. The Bible doesn't tell us to go off and believe whatever crazy ideas flit into your head. God is quite clear on this point.

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" -- 2 John 1:9-11

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

You do realize that none of what you are agreeing with there is in any way Christian doctrine.

Have you two come to mock Jesus?

Absolutely not. I love him.

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

Simply untrue. Every single True Christian™ holds the exact same beliefs. Those beliefs can be found in book form, called the Holy KJV1611 Bible, the inerrant, LITERAL Word of God.

Looterans are false Christians, so of course satan has you all in disarray. The Bible doesn't tell us to go off and believe whatever crazy ideas flit into your head. God is quite clear on this point.

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" -- 2 John 1:9-11

So everyone who follows this religion believes the same way. Wow. I didn't think such uniformity was possible on God's earth.

May I ask you one thing, this....extremely long abbreviation of a bible you read, when was it translated?

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

Read Hitler's Willing Executioners:

Bishop Martin Sasse, a leading Lutheran churchman, published a compendium Luther's writings shortly after Kristallnacht. Sasse "applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day, writing in the introduction, "On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany." The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words "of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews."

And worst of all, you guys even allied yourselves with the japs!

[SpoonfulofSugar]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

Why do you call yourself the Lutheran church? Would you go to a church called the Hitleran church? Or the Attila-The-Hunleran Church? Or the Stalinist Church?

I mean, you have a choice between following our church, founded by John the Baptist, or your church, founded by some sausage-swalling kraut who says that Jews "are full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine," and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut..."

Which of the two is closer to Christ?

The name of a church does not entirely reflect upon it's members.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I am a Lutheran.

So everyone who follows this religion believes the same way. Wow. I didn't think such uniformity was possible on God's earth.

May I ask you one thing, this....extremely long abbreviation of a bible you read, when was it translated?

The KJV1611 Bible was not "translated" so much as it was dictated directly from God. Take a look at THIS, heretic.