Salvation is mostly by Tithing and Works of Faith.

**Daisy Mae Johnson** · 09-27-2006, 04:34 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

:::::: Yawwwwn:::::::::::::

Have you hit the Paypal Button yet or are you just here to waste bandwith on GOD'S Favorite Forum™?

**Brother V** · 09-27-2006, 04:36 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Please explain away this verse for me.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Then we'll go to these.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

And finally, one of my FAVORITE verses in the bible.

Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

So what have we learned.

1. We will be judged by our works.
2. Faith without works is dead.
3. Without works we are lukewarm=dead.

Care to rethink your faith alone stance?

V

**SalvationSeeker** · 09-27-2006, 04:39 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

OH REALLY, frodo?
So what did Jesus mean when he said this:

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:27

Read it homer, it says: ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.

You obviously don't know the Bible, you can't have faith without works.
"Faith only" is a false faith that you do for show, to appear like a pious man, and not for Salvation, nor the Glory of JESUS.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

Read the bible (KJV1611) and then get back to us.
Praise JESUS!

Well said, brother V, you beat me to it.

This little homer doesn't know the Bible.

**xfrodobagginsx** · 09-27-2006, 04:47 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

I have added some more info to this original thread to answer your questions.

**Brother V** · 09-27-2006, 04:48 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post

I have added some more info to this original thread to answer your questions.

Some people write their own things and don't copy and paste. We would like to know YOUR views on why those verses in the bible (kjv1611) don't matter.

**Daisy Mae Johnson** · 09-27-2006, 04:49 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Did you read the rules when you signed up here?

I am assigning you 40 infraction points for pledgerizing another website without posting a link where you stole the information from.

Stern, Sister Thumper

**SalvationSeeker** · 09-27-2006, 04:50 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post

I have added some more info to this original thread to answer your questions.

The conclusion is (almost) correct.
Salvation requires a combination of both faith and works, AND NOT FAITH ALONE, thanks for agreeing with us.

Justification comes from good works, done by the man of faith.
Only the man of faith would do these good works after all.
Now stop robbing GOD and hit the PayPal button.

**Jesus is Lord** · 09-27-2006, 04:52 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

As usual, you are half right, xfrodosboytoywannabex. Salvation is not of works, but also of faith. But you must also remember faith alone is not enough either. One needs a combination of both works and faith to be Saved as faith alone is dead, as James 2:17 tells us.

**Brother V** · 09-27-2006, 05:02 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Friend, you claim to have faith, but you don't. If you did, you would accept that works are also important.

What are works?

Works are simply the things you do.

Oddly enough, when you go to other forums and post your drivel, it is surprisingly ... (get this) WORKS.

So you deny that you need works, and then you go out and you do them, don't you find that to be a little hypocritical?

I have a question for you.

Do you not believe that we will be going to heaven? Why?

Do you feel we don't have faith?

Do you feel we don't believe?

Why do you think we won't be going to heaven?

I can tell you straight away why you aren't going. It's because you aren't a member of our church. No hold on, before you get angry and say "you don't have to be a member of any particular church to get to heaven (and you definately don't have to tithe) (you were gonna say that next... weren't you)" think about this.

Our church (here at Landover) worships Jesus constantly. Our church has been blessed by the Lord. We are constantly under attack by liberal christians (such as yourself) and atheists, and joos and mudslims. So what does that have to do with anything? I'll tell you.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

You attack us for our beliefs. What does that mean? It means we are doing a great job.

Friend, does the world hate you? Why not?

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

How many websites are out there to shut down xfrodobagginsx ? How many petitions have been circulated to keep you from spreading the gospel? How many christian forums have you been kicked off of for telling the truth about the Lord?

Friend, I assure you, We are loved by God, why? Because everyone else hates us. That's how we know we are God's favorite Church!

PRAISE JESUS
YIC
V

**xfrodobagginsx** · 09-27-2006, 05:06 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

You're a joke. No where in the bible does it say that I have to belong to your false church to get to heaven.

To let you know, you are like the pharisee and true believers are like the publican.

Lu 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Sinner's prayer:

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

You see then how the publican was justified and not the pharasee. But the pharasee tithed. The pharasees (people like you) think that they will get there because they deserve it. The publicans (true believers) realize that they don't deserve it and can only get there because of Jesus Christ.

Verses showing justification by faith.

Justification is the legal act where God declares the sinner to be innocent of his or her sins. It is not that the sinner is now sinless, but that he is "declared" sinless. This declaration of righteousness is being justified before God. This justification is based on the shed blood of Jesus, "...having now been justified by His blood..." (Rom. 5:9) where Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose again (1 Cor. 15:1-4). God imputes (reckons to our account) the righteousness of Christ. At the same time our sins were imputed to Christ when he was on the cross. That is why it says in 1 Pet. 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." Also, 2 Cor. 5:21 says, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." Additionally, we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1) apart from works of the Law (Rom. 3:28).
To be saved means that God has delivered us (saved us) from His righteous wrathful judgment due us because of our sins against Him. It means that we will not be judged for our sins and be sentenced to eternal damnation. To be saved means that we are justified before God. Only Christians are saved. Only Christians are justified. The issue at hand is whether or not this salvation, this justification, is attained by faith or by faith and something else.
Following is a list of verses that show that salvation/justification is by faith. Bold references are particularly pointed.

<LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;" <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also," <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.” <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."

James 2:24, not by faith alone

The scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."
There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James chapter 2 has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us to not show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.
James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith, that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that that type of faith isn't much different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that is words followed by actions. He writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.
In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20).
Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example.

Conclusion

Justification is by faith. True faith results in regeneration of the sinner which, in turn, results in good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor keep it. Jesus accomplished that on the cross. All that we need, we have in Jesus. All we need to do to be saved, to be justified, is to truly believe in what God has done for us in Jesus on the cross. This true belief with justification before God and regeneration in the new believer, results in good works.

**Brother V** · 09-27-2006, 05:10 PM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post

You're a joke. No where in the bible does it say that I have to belong to your false church to get to heaven.

To let you know, you are like the pharisee and true believers are like the publican.

Lu 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Sinner's prayer:

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

You see then how the publican was justified and not the pharasee. But the pharasee tithed. The pharasees (people like you) think that they will get there because they deserve it. The publicans (true believers) realize that they don't deserve it and can only get there because of Jesus Christ.

You copy and paste your own material... somewhat sad.

Friend, I pray in my prayer closet. Not in public.

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Also, my tithe is in an envelope. I don't loudly drop coins into the offering plate.

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Did you see where Jesus said to give alms? (What did he mean?) Oh gosh, did he mean that we are supposed to give?

How does this jibe with your views?

V

**xfrodobagginsx** · 09-28-2006, 04:10 AM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Read this original thread. This is what they don't want you to know here about the bible, because it proves that salvation is not of works.

**Pastor Al E Pistle** · 09-28-2006, 04:24 AM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx View Post

Read this original thread. This is what they don't want you to know here about the bible, because it proves that salvation is not of works.

Friend, we believe in the WHOLE Bible, EVERY WORD! Not just those passages we happen to like.

CAN YOU READ?
Psalm 62:12 For you render to each one according to his works.
Proverbs 10:16 The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin.
Jeremiah7:10 I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Ezekiel 18:27 When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul.
Matthew 5:20 Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Matthew 19:17 If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Luke 10:26-28 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Romans 2:6, 13 Who will render to each one according to his deeds. For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Philippians 2:12 "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:21-25 Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1 Peter 1:17 The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work.

Revelation 2:23 I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Revelation 20:12-13 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life.

**xfrodobagginsx** · 09-28-2006, 04:32 AM

Re: Salvation is NOT of Works.

Those verses are addressed in this original thread. Read it for yourself.

Salvation is mostly by Tithing and Works of Faith.

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