Why do you pray

[Seeker]

Does it not seem that it would interfere with God's plan and thus don't count or even have a purpose? God is God and he does what he wishes! That would take away free will. And if works don't matter why bother?

Heb 12:6
Heb 12:11
Job 5:17
Rev 3:19

Just for starters...

It looks like God loves to kick ya when your down (chastise you) for whatever. Because he loves you? Does he love you that much to send you to hell too in the process?

<<losing faith in faith. Now please give me many other verses that will contradict these verses. I have faith in you!!!

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: Why do you pray

Seeker: Why do you pray? Does it not seem that it would interfere with God's plan and thus don't count or even have a purpose? God is God and he does what he wishes!
Prayer isn't a Christmas list for Santa Claus. God commands us to pray. It is a form of worship. When we find ourselves in a tough situation, we pray for God's help as a way to prostrate ourselves before Him, to show Him that we understand how helpless we are without Him. We don't expect God to our grant wishes like some genie.

Seeker: And if works don't matter why bother?
Good works are not the way to salvation, but good works are evidence of salvation. Someone who is saved will do good works.

Seeker: It looks like God loves to kick ya when your down (chastise you) for whatever. Because he loves you? Does he love you that much to send you to hell too in the process?
God chastises folks who are arrogant and think they can do it all themselves, without God's help. God doesn't send anyone to Hell. People willingly choose Hell because they would rather live a life of sin than serve God.

Seeker: Now please give me many other verses that will contradict these verses.
What are you talking about? There are no contradictions in the Bible. Verses only seem to contradict when you take them out of context.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Why do you pray

If prayer interfered with God's plan, He wouldn't tell us to do it, now, would He? It's a common misconception among unsaved Christ-haters that prayer is like placing a purchase order with the Almighty. That isn't the case at all, since God already knows what we need:

Matthew 6:8: Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Also, if the purpose of prayer were to change God's mind, the following would be a strange thing to pray, as I'm sure you'll agree:

Matthew 6:10: Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

We pray, not to bring God into agreement with ourselves, but to bring ourselves into agreement with God and to understand how utterly dependent we are on God and on His will:

James 4:2-3: Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume [it] upon your lusts.

The Scripture verses that I've quoted don't contradict the ones that you've cited, as Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

Finally, if you're "losing faith in faith," then I suggest that you spend more time in your prayer closet, missy, and stop quoting notorious apostates.

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Why do you pray

You make reference to the Book of Hebrews. Here is Hebrews 12:6 thorugh 12:11:

• For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

• If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

• But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

• Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

• For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

• Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

The meaning of this is plain: if you reject the punishments the Lord metes out upon you, then you are not as His child. Furthermore, it is the punishment of the Lord in this world which makes the soul ready for the next -- that is, for Heaven.

Imagine that a tornado destroys a small house in Possumfat, Georgia. A shattered board flying through the air strikes a child and impales her right through the navel. It is a horrible wound but the child survives for several days, in terrible pain. Then she dies.

Now, this child is innocent of any wrongdoing. The tornado was not caused by any human evildoer. The tragedy is indeed an "act of God" in the purest sense. But God is righteous and perfectly just, and so -- because her parents neglected to get her baptized in the name of the Christ -- the child goes straight to Hell.

See how it is?

If God did not punish man, it would mean that He does not love humans as His children. But it is not so, for evidence of God's punishment is all around us! Oh indeed it is, praise Him!

~~OEJ

[Sister Noddy]

Re: Why do you pray

Imagine that a tornado destroys a small house in Possumfat, Georgia. A shattered board flying through the air strikes a child and impales her right through the navel. It is a horrible wound but the child survives for several days, in terrible pain. Then she dies.

Now, this child is innocent of any wrongdoing. The tornado was not caused by any human evildoer. The tragedy is indeed an "act of God" in the purest sense. But God is righteous and perfectly just, and so -- because her parents neglected to get her baptized in the name of the Christ -- the child goes straight to Hell.

See how it is?

If God did not punish man, it would mean that He does not love humans as His children. But it is not so, for evidence of God's punishment is all around us! Oh indeed it is, praise Him!

~~OEJ

Such a perfect example of the Heavenly purpose and Eternal wisdom of the Lord GOD, Brother One-eye! This, brothers and sisters, is the God we True Christians™ worship, not some sissy false-church idea of God!

We are so lucky in His Divine love! Praise JESUS! Sister Noddy

[Seeker]

Re: Why do you pray

So I guess praying for mercy is pointless.....

I mean his will is too be done.

[sad]

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Why do you pray

So I guess praying for mercy is pointless.....

I mean his will is too be done.

[sad]

Romans 9:18: Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Now, into which category do you think you fall, and why?

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Why do you pray

Seeker, you do not understand. And this point is important.

For a Christian, the dreadful suffering of man on Earth is a sure sign of God's love! Think about it: How did God choose to call His Son back to Him? In a ritual of bloody, murderous agony, that's how. Christians often boast of how painful crucifixion was. Given the suffering of our Savior, how could we not link salvation and suffering?

• For my days are consumed like smoke, and my bones are burned as an hearth. Psalm 102:3

Every great Bible story is a story of pain: John the Baptist's severed head on a silver platter, while Salome dances. How did Job prove his righteousness? Suffering, pure suffering. Martyrs are holy because they suffered: Saint Sebastian tied to a tree and shot full of arrows, Joan d'Arc with the flames biting at her thighs. For the love of Christ.

Love and pain are inextricably linked in Christian belief.

Is it sado-machochism? Only if you believe God is a pervert.

But when you bemoan the world's suffering, a good Christian smiles. He know that everything -- pleasure and pain both -- is the work of the Lord.

• I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

The Lord creates everything, all good and evil. Read the Bible and you'll find that inflicting suffering on mankind is God's speciality. So rejoice! God's love is manifest in every drop of dew, as they say, but especially in every drop of blood!

~~OEJ

[Brother Lindh]

Re: Why do you pray

Seeker, you do not understand. And this point is important.
God's love is manifest in every drop of dew, as they say, but especially in every drop of blood!

~~OEJ

Ah, the Godly One-eyed Jack speaks not with forked`tongue when he talks of "every drop of blood"! I myself relish every drop of blood. As Pastor Python
wisely spoke,
"Let the heathens spill theirs
On the dusty ground
God will make them pay for
each drop of blood not found."

Praise Jesus and the Holy Ghost for blood!

[Seeker]

Re: Why do you pray

One-eyed Jack, you are a very wise man.

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Why do you pray

Well, all wisdom is of God and not of man.

But the association of punishment with love explains a lot.

The saying popular among Christian parents -- spare the rod and spoil the child -- comes from the Book of Proverbs:

• He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Proverbs 13:24

At a national level the philosophy justifies the punishment of those the "secular parent" -- the authority of the state -- finds wanting. Some have asked how a Christian president presiding over a predominantly Christian cabinet could possibly endorse torture as an official interrogation technique.

The question is laughable!

I think the Christian must reject the modernist ban on "cruel and unusual punishment" and understand that in God's plan for Earth some individuals are meant to suffer terrible torment. God Himself promised to inflict punishment on those of His children who displeased Him:

• I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. Leviticus 26:16

As a righteous government among men must humbly reflect God's values and teachings, it is natural for a Christian government to embrace torture.

At least it seems so to me.

~~ OEJ