Let me ask you..."Christians"

[ARabidPuma]

I want to know why you think your place in heaven is so secure when you believe what you believe..

I am twenty years old, In College and I have been a Christian my whole life.

I am not Religious, I am Christian.
(as the bible says to be)

You know, The way you judge all the other religions, social classes and anyone who does not believe the same ways you do is very hypocritical. The type of people here, for one is the reason I have stopped going to a baptist church. You think of yourself and no one else. You don't try to help the lost and damned you just want to preach God and his teachings to each other instead of them.

Maybe that little "goth" kid down the road that killed himself wanted to hear about Jesus his whole life and you were to stubborn and stuck up your own hypocritical butt to help him or even give him a second look.

What about that druggie on the side of the road that you scoff at and turn your head thinking you are superior to him, wants to hear about Jesus?

Our purpose on this earth is to bring people to Jesus and not to turn people against him, and that is exactly what you are doing.

I am going to pray for every single one of you on the forum....I know I am not the perfect person, No one is except our father in heaven Jesus Christ.

I hope you people can understand what you are doing, You are condemning yourself to hell and that is all you are doing.

YOU are not doing God's will.
There is only One judge, Only one that should judge and that is God.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

You know, The way you judge all the other religions, social classes and anyone who does not believe the same ways you do is very hypocritical.

How is it hypocritical if that is exactly what the Bible says to do?

2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The type of people here, for one is the reason I have stopped going to a baptist church. You think of yourself and no one else. You don't try to help the lost and damned you just want to preach God and his teachings to each other instead of them.

How can you say that? I love my neighbor as myself. We run many many outreach charities here at Landover Baptist Church.

Maybe that little "goth" kid down the road that killed himself wanted to hear about Jesus his whole life and you were to stubborn and stuck up your own hypocritical butt to help him or even give him a second look.

That would be a sin to do so. We would preach to him to save his soul from the flames of hell.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

What about that druggie on the side of the road that you scoff at and turn your head thinking you are superior to him, wants to hear about Jesus?

What about you? Do you go and try to save every single person you run across?

I am going to pray for every single one of you on the forum....I know I am not the perfect person, No one is except our father in heaven Jesus Christ.

No one is perfect except Christ?

Luke 1 5THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Why would Jesus exhort us to be perfect if it is impossible?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. I hope you people can understand what you are doing, You are condemning yourself to hell and that is all you are doing.

YOU are not doing God's will.

Prove it using the Bible.

Only one that should judge and that is God.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

[ManyPaths]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

I totally get what ur saying.

You sound totally deep and spiritual. I'm also spiritual but not religious. I follow Many Paths, because their are deep esoteric truths to be found in all of the beautiful faith traditions that the supreme being gave for us! It does'nt really matter what you beleive it just matters that you believe in something!

I totally am down with Jesus and all the beautiful spiritual truths he taught but you know you can find soooo much more ancient wisdome by reading other Holy Books right? They all have sooo many deep spiritual insights if you just pick the beautifull parts and ignore all the bad stuff like about being happy when you kill ur enemies children or killing gay ppl.

U should do like me and pick the happy parts from all the different religions and make ur own! In my religion I'm totally down with helping the less fortunate. But I don't think Jesus is the only answer. He is just one of many Spiritual Masters (he totally studied Buddhism in India you know). They just need to find the God within themselfs and develop there own deep spirituality.

~Namaste~ (I see the God within you!)

[barton]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

You don't try to help the lost and damned you just want to preach God and his teachings to each other instead of them.

I'm brand new here but I can't remain quiet on this point. I'm not an educated man, so please bear with me.

God is omniscient. Right? God is the Alpha and Omega. Right? Therefore, He knew in advance who would be Saved and who would perish in eternal hellfire. Since He already knew this, it's already destined to happen. In other words, isn't it extreme folly on my part to think that I can (or SHOULD even attempt to) interfere with His Holy Plan for our lives? The lost and the damned are that way for a reason. If ANY of them are destined for Salvation, God certainly doesn't want or need my help in accomplishing it. They WILL be saved. It's preordained. It's God's Grace!

So what, then? Well, we are to lift up our voices and sing His praises! We don't do this by applauding sin or celebrating the work of the devil.

Perhaps you prefer to spin your wheels in contempt of the Grace of God, trying to save those that cannot be saved, while giving tacit approval for their wicked, vile ways. I don't want any part of this.

I am going to pray for every single one of you on the forum....I know I am not the perfect person, No one is except our father in heaven Jesus Christ.

I'm not going to pray for you. If God has chosen you to be among the saved, you will be saved. You cannot resist it.

I hope some of the more senior members here can help correct any mistakes or omissions on my part.

[ExGay Alex]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

Where in the Bible does it say God "knows" or "doesn't know" who will be saved? And what difference does it make what he knows?

YOU have the responsibility to make the choices that get you in to heaven, and it is not difficult to do: Just follow the Bible and you get there.

[barton]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

Where in the Bible does it say God "knows" or "doesn't know" who will be saved? And what difference does it make what he knows?

Do you believe that God is omniscient? If so, how can you put limitations on that knowledge? There are many passages that can be quoted. How about Isaiah 46:9-10? "...I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done..." or Psalm 147:5 "Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite."

The difference that it makes? Nothing of much importance to me personally. I already know what I know. To me, it goes without saying that God already knew what was coming.

YOU have the responsibility to make the choices that get you in to heaven, and it is not difficult to do: Just follow the Bible and you get there.

Does God's Grace play no role in this? Do you think that we are not so far gone that we, by our own impetus, can extricate ourselves from sin? I know that I don't deserve Salvation. I was given choices my whole life and I chose sin every time. I was even a Democrat.

IOW, there's nothing I could possibly bring to the table that would atone for my evil life. It's a Miracle I was saved. I praise and thank God every day for it. This doesn't mean I have no responsibility. I am responsible for not squandering the gifts God gave me. That does not mean that I have to cast my pearls before swine. My responsibilities do not require that I tolerate evil.

Do you support needle exchange programs or condom giveaways in middle school and earlier? These are so-called "good works"... harm reduction programs. (gag! puke!). Supporting these programs is tantamount to approval of drugs and fornication. It's only right that these people contract AIDS and Hep C and so on. It's the wages of their sin.

This doesn't mean I don't help my fellow man. John 15:5 says "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." Any good works, such as feeding the hungry or visiting the infirm, are of Him not me. Last week, I supplied all the hot dogs for our Church picnic. The week before, we visited an old God-fearing widow on her deathbed in the hospital.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

The problem with your argument, barton, is that you are presupposing that God is bound by the rules of logic. Logic is a system that was created by humans to describe how things work on a human-scale, but it does not follow that it works on God's-scale.

So, can God be omniscient AND can humans have free-will? Absolutely, but to understand that you can't impose human limitations on God.

EDIT: I just realized my reply has no context in this thread. Please forgive my stupidity, my feminine side was showing there

[barton]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

The problem with your argument, barton, is that you are presupposing that God is bound by the rules of logic. Logic is a system that was created by humans to describe how things work on a human-scale, but it does not follow that it works on God's-scale.

We were created in His image, though. Still, I get your point.

So, can God be omniscient AND can humans have free-will? Absolutely, but to understand that you can't impose human limitations on God.

Do we really have free will? I'm not so sure of that. We like to think we do. But I don't really see anything substantial to support it in the Bible. I mean, we are all able to choose to do evil things. We have to remain steadfast in Him... but only God chooses us in the first place.

A missing ingredient here that causes problems with people is another human construct. That of "fairness". Is it "fair" that I undeservedly receive Grace while another person doesn't? Best I can come up with is "Sorry, not my department".

EDIT: I just realized my reply has no context in this thread. Please forgive my stupidity, my feminine side was showing there

No worries. I expect this problem to crop up from time to time among the weaker sex, no matter how otherwise brilliant they are.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

We were created in His image, though. Still, I get your point.

Do we really have free will? I'm not so sure of that. We like to think we do. But I don't really see anything substantial to support it in the Bible. I mean, we are all able to choose to do evil things. We have to remain steadfast in Him... but only God chooses us in the first place.

Well, I think the Bible is pretty clear on God having free will, and if we are created in His image I think its fair to assume that we do too.

"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." Genesis 6:6-7

"And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Exodus 32:9-14

Just two examples of God changing his mind.

A missing ingredient here that causes problems with people is another human construct. That of "fairness". Is it "fair" that I undeservedly receive Grace while another person doesn't? Best I can come up with is "Sorry, not my department".

Agreed, it may not be fair in the eyes of those fluffy bunny christians, but I'm not about to question somebody who can smite me whenever He wants.

No worries. I expect this problem to crop up from time to time among the weaker sex, no matter how otherwise brilliant they are.

Thank you for understanding.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

I want to know why you think your place in heaven is so secure when you believe what you believe..

There is a difference between the things we believe, and the things The Bible states to be so. For example:

JONAH 1:1 Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai..

Jonah WAS the son of Amittai. I suppose I could believe that Jonah was the son of Tutankhamun and looked like THIS:


..but that is not what The Bible says. If I'm going to believe that Jonah was not the son of Amittai, then I may as well believe that there was never any Jonah at all.

So it is a simple fact. Jonah was the son of Amittai.
(Atheists, who believe that The Bible is false, on the other hand, might believe just about anything concerning Jonah - or nothing - I suppose.)

How do we know that Jesus existed? It is because The Bible says so.
Jesus said this:

John 3:3b Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

You mentioned

I have been a Christian my whole life.

How do describe the experience of being a Christian when you were 4 days old? Or 2 weeks old? Or a year old? When did you start being a Christian? Do you believe that Jesus really existed?

The Bible says He did. By accepting The Bible we know that Jesus existed.
When you accept The Bible, you accept that Jonah also existed (and that his father was Amittai).
Here is a human baby.



To us it looks cute and innocent, with all its life before it, all the good decisions it might make, and all the bad decisions too. It will probably have children, protect them and love them. How would you go about killing it? The Bible says that if you were the one holding it (like in the photo) gripping it and smashing it into a boulder would make you so happy (in the event that you didn't like its great great grandfather whom you had never met).

Here is a human brain.


Psalm 137:9 Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

I am not Religious, I am Christian.
(as the bible says to be)

Without The Bible stating FACTS - rather than opinions, "world views" or "belief systems" - there are a lot of things that we wouldn't know, and which we would be very unlikely to think up for ourselves. When dashing that little one against the stones its brain would splatter. I would never have believed that such a thing could make anyone other than an insane murderer happy, but God knows that it can, and has told us so! PRAISE HIM! People often say that we just pick out bits & pieces from The Bible. Here is the whole Psalm.

The Psalms are truly delightful, and in them we see so many examples of God's Perfect Love, but His beauty is also seen in prophecy.
Malachi 3:1 anticipates the ministry of John The Baptist:

Mark 1:1-2
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

This fulfillment of prophecy HALLELUJAH celebrates God's Perfect Love which has been recorded for us throughout the centuries, and sometimes it includes punishment.

Hosea 13:2-4
2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves.
3 Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud, and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.
4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

God in His Excellent Lovingkindness saved them like this:

Hosea 13:15b-16
..the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels.
16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

You know, The way you judge all the other religions, social classes and anyone who does not believe the same ways you do is very hypocritical.

God tells us about His Perfect Love through Hosea, through the Psalmists, and throughout the ages because we would not understand just how perfect His love is, in our fallen condition. What we think of as "innocence" or "compassion" is not the same as what God tells us as FACT. The option of what I might otherwise believe does not arise because of God's Wonderful Word. I think of convulsing babies ripped out of their mothers' bellies to die in agony as revolting, because I am sinful. God is not sinful, and thinks otherwise. I think babies and unborn infants are innocent, because I am imperfect. God is perfect, and thinks otherwise. Through Hosea, God told us that there is no other saviour and with clubs, axes, swords and spears His servants ripped into this

The hypocrite claims to accept God's love, but rejects His word .

[barton]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

Well, I think the Bible is pretty clear on God having free will, and if we are created in His image I think its fair to assume that we do too.

... Genesis 6:6-7
... Exodus 32:9-14

Just two examples of God changing his mind.

Thanks for the verses. I'm still not wholly convinced... but I will certainly agree that the point doesn't really make much difference. Free willed or not, we humans are subject to God's Authority.

I know I'm Heaven Bound just as I know that many others are damned because they rejected God and/or were rejected by God. Either way or both at the same time, they're toast.

Agreed, it may not be fair in the eyes of those fluffy bunny christians, but I'm not about to question somebody who can smite me whenever He wants.

It always amazes me that people so easily overlook the awesome power of God. Power He's already used with great effect against sinners. We aren't "God-fearing" for no reason!!!

Thank you for understanding.

No problem. I appreciate your insight! Of course, I cannot simply accept teaching directly from a woman so I spoke to my Pastor about what you wrote. He agreed that you are very, very smart for a woman!

[RomanK]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

Luke 17:20-21 (King James Version)



20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Heaven is within, it is not found in death. But while you are alive. Preachers deal in death, and fear, to keep the tithes in their box.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

Luke 17:20-21 (King James Version)



20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Heaven is within, it is not found in death. But while you are alive. Preachers deal in death, and fear, to keep the tithes in their box.

Sigh. The word translated "within" is the Greek entos. While "within" would have made sense to the people in 1611, by today's usage the word "amongst" would be the proper one. Consider only who Jesus is talking to. The Pharisees. Is Jesus saying that the Kingdom of God is inside the Pharisees? Of course not. He condemns them to hell in several parts of the Bible. He is saying that the Kingdom of God is in their midst. The Kingdom of God is indeed a physical place, and not inside the Pharisees.

Every reference to the Kingdom talks about people entering it, not it existing inside others. If you disagree, place substantiate your arguments with knowledge of the Greek language.

Matt. 5:20 (FNT)
20 For I say to you that unless your justice abounds more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

Luke 17:20-21 (King James Version)



20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Heaven is within, it is not found in death. But while you are alive. Preachers deal in death, and fear, to keep the tithes in their box.

So that just dismisses everything else about heaven in the Bible?

Joshua 2:11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

2 Samuel 22:14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.

1 Kings 8:39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men

2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
Care to explain where Elijah went?

Job 22:12 Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are!

Psalm 11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

I'll just skip to the NT here, because there are just so many.

Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
So according to you, your rewards are in your gut? Is it a taco?

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
So thy will be done in earth as it is in my gut?

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
How do we enter heaven if it's inside of us?

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
How do we sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob if the kingdom of heaven is within?

Do you not understand what parables mean?
Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
So are we all going to be farmers in heaven?

Matthew 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Oh, maybe I should eat mustard seeds since that's where heaven is!

Matthew 13:33Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Oh wait, no I just need to keep eating bread, because it turns out that heaven is really yeast!

Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
No I guess I should go digging up the local farmers fields.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
How is it he gave Peter the keys to heaven if heaven is inside all of us?


Trust me there are many, many more scripture about heaven, I'm just tired of trying to deal with you. The main reason I responded to this is I don't want you leading any people on here into the gaping maw of Hell.

Now go back to your Satanist boards and stay there.

[ManyPaths]

Re: Let me ask you..."Christians"

Heaven is within, it is not found in death. But while you are alive. Preachers deal in death, and fear, to keep the tithes in their box.

I totally get what ur saying. We are all spiritual beings having a human expereince just like Deepak Chopra says. You sound really deep and spiritual just like me.

~Namaste~