Matt. 7:1

[Eye of the Beholder]

"For in the same way you judge others [there is the authority to judge], you will be judged [if we judge poorly, we will be judged poorly; if we judge well, we will be judged well], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes to manipulate the outcome, extremes will be used on us]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not see, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about]? You hypocrite [telling/accusing others of sins while thinking one is above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn AND live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother's eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin]." At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin."

It appears to me that there is a lot of judging going on in this forum - actually, this forum is rife with it.

What ever happened to the most fundamental of Christian doctrine? I'm talking about Love and Tolerance. This world would be a much better place to live without blatant ignorance and intolerance.

God loves each and every one of us, regardless of color, race, ethnicity, sex, and sexual preference. He even loves the athiest for we are all His children.

The contempt for others displayed on this forum is certainly un-Christian and to profess that your belief is the True Christian belief is quite the bold claim to make, considering the Baptist faith is merely a few hundred years old, while Christianity is over 2000 years old.

I could argue these points until I'm blue in the face, but it would seem to me (based on the other threads that I've read) that arguing with extremists is like arguing with a wall. You have your beliefs, which I applaud you. I believe that we all need a spiritual belief just to make it through this world of the living....it gives us something to embrace and to look forward to. Does it really matter if someone has a differing view than you? You feel saved, right? Great! Live your life in peace and harmony. Let others do the same, as they feel is best for them. After all, God did give us one of the greatest gifts that He could, and that my friends is Free Will.

Peace, love and forgiveness to all of you.

[Talitha]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Friend, Why are you here?
Why do YOU Judge us?
Are you here merely to persecute us and our beliefs?

If you were to read your Bible(KJV1611) and take it literally as we do, you would realise that we are merely following the word of God.

[Eye of the Beholder]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Sister Talitha, I am not here to judge you, nor anyone else on this forum. As I said I applaud you for having a spiritual belief. That is the most crucial step in leading a good life.
My post is simply a point of contention, if you will. If you were to be following the word of God literally, then you wouldn't be judging so harshly. You would "love thy neighbour" and "judge[ing] not lest ye be judged". The extremity of the judging here is only going to result in you being judged by our Lord in the same extreme.

My mother was a southern Baptist, so I have some insight into your doctrine. I chose a different path of Christianity.

God is Love. God is Peace.

All I ask is that you keep an open mind with me. I have some interesting theories that you may like to debate with me....maybe we'll both learn something? I honestly believe that if you take me with a grain of salt, we'll have some pretty good debates! (Who doesn't love a good debate?)

[Talitha]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Sister Talitha, I am not here to judge you, nor anyone else on this forum. As I said I applaud you for having a spiritual belief. That is the most crucial step in leading a good life.
My post is simply a point of contention, if you will. If you were to be following the word of God literally, then you wouldn't be judging so harshly. You would "love thy neighbour" and "judge[ing] not lest ye be judged". The extremity of the judging here is only going to result in you being judged by our Lord in the same extreme.

My mother was a southern Baptist, so I have some insight into your doctrine. I chose a different path of Christianity.

God is Love. God is Peace.

All I ask is that you keep an open mind with me. I have some interesting theories that you may like to debate with me....maybe we'll both learn something? I honestly believe that if you take me with a grain of salt, we'll have some pretty good debates! (Who doesn't love a good debate?)

I'm afraid you come across to me as one of those Lieberal minded false Christians© who can't face up to the True™ meaning of The Bible(KJV1611).
I don't merely have a "belief" as you call it. I and my friends and Pastors here are True Christians™. There is nothing to debate, and if you have a love of God, and there is ONLY ONE, you would follow The Truth™ just as we do.

[Eye of the Beholder]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Of course there is only one God, that is not the debate. As for being liberal minded, I may stray a little left of centre from time to time.
As for the truth you speak of, the truth depends on who is doing the interpretations. There are many views on what God was saying to us. Unfortunately I believe the bible was corrupted by man many, many years ago....most specifically Nero. I also believe that the bible is a simple allegory, subject to interpretation, not to be taken extremely literally.
But that is simply MY belief. The teachings are relatively the same, which are the fundamentals of Christian doctrine (peace, love, tolerance).

To me a false Christian is someone who professes their Christian beliefs but don't live by them. They are mean, spitefull people, which I am neither (although I do have my cranky days...lol)

The Truth, as you speak, is in the eye of the beholder.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Son, the TRUTH is to be found in the Holy Word of God. You are repeating fuzzy-headed false Christian doctrine. The Bible tells us to judge. The Bible does not tell us to love mudslime terrorists or those who hate Jesus. We are to judge sodomites and those who commit bestiality. These are just a few examples. If we are to emulate Christ, then we are to do as He commands in the Scriptures:

Jesus judges:

John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.

John 5:26-27
The Father ... hath given him authority to execute judgment.

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

We are to judge:

Leviticus 19:15
In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?.


Any more questions?

[Eye of the Beholder]

Re: Matt. 7:1

I wouldn't say that we are to love muslim terrorists. As a matter of fact I fought them in Afghanistan, and barely got away with my life....but that is something I'm not willing to discuss at this time.

Also, I realize that we have been given the authority to judge, but as I mentioned earlier, however we judge we too shall be judged and to the same extreme.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Matt. 7:1

I wouldn't say that we are to love muslim terrorists. As a matter of fact I fought them in Afghanistan, and barely got away with my life....but that is something I'm not willing to discuss at this time.

Also, I realize that we have been given the authority to judge, but as I mentioned earlier, however we judge we too shall be judged and to the same extreme.

How is it "extreme" to judge as Jesus instructs us to? I assume that you weren't out there in the wastelands of iraquistan handing out daisies to those degenerate sand nigras? I assume that you dispatched as many of them to hellfire as possible? Then how can you embrace this false Christian doctrine that distorts the Holy Bible and claims that Jesus said to love everyone?

[Eye of the Beholder]

Re: Matt. 7:1

You're right, I wasn't handing out daisies (but I must admit, the image that conjured up made me giggle )

I'll get back to you on this discussion....I must leave for work.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Dear friend:

Let's look at those verses in the King James Bible:

Matt. 7:1-5 KJV: Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

As you can see, it says that with what judgment we judge, we will be judged, and with what measure we mete, it will be measured to us again. It doesn't contain any fluffy-bunny liberal nonsense about judging well or poorly or judging to the same extreme (and could you have chosen more vague language?). Instead, it concerns the same judgment and the same measure, i.e., whether you do the same thing for which you judge others. There's no prohibition on my judging sodomites as long as I don't commit sodomy myself.

Since we follow the entire Bible, and since Scripture interprets Scripture, let's look at how Romans ch. 2 handles this issue:

Romans 2:1-3: Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Rom. 2:21-23: Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

As you can see, the concern is with doing the same thing for which you judge others, not judging well or poorly or judging "to the same extreme," whatever you mean by those words.

Finally, as for the motes in our neighbors' eyes and the beams in our own, please point out where we have behaved in that manner.

[Glendora Christianson]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Dear friend:

Let's look at those verses in the King James Bible:

Matt. 7:1-5 KJV: Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

As you can see, it says that with what judgment we judge, we will be judged, and with what measure we mete, it will be measured to us again. It doesn't contain any fluffy-bunny liberal nonsense about judging well or poorly or judging to the same extreme (and could you have chosen more vague language?). Instead, it concerns the same judgment and the same measure, i.e., whether you do the same thing for which you judge others. There's no prohibition on my judging sodomites as long as I don't commit sodomy myself.

Since we follow the entire Bible, and since Scripture interprets Scripture, let's look at how Romans ch. 2 handles this issue:

Romans 2:1-3: Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Rom. 2:21-23: Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

As you can see, the concern is with doing the same thing for which you judge others, not judging well or poorly or judging "to the same extreme," whatever you mean by those words.

Finally, as for the motes in our neighbors' eyes and the beams in our own, please point out where we have behaved in that manner.

I am reminded of 1 Corinthians, CH 2:15

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

And I think HIS words speak clearly to all of us at HIS favorite church. But for those who are blinded by false religion and the crooked leaders they follow, of course, the plea to not be judged is a desperate one.

[Eye of the Beholder]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Finally, as for the motes in our neighbors' eyes and the beams in our own, please point out where we have behaved in that manner.

This forum is rife with judgement. Your racist and bigoted comments towards people of colour and differing religious faiths. People on here are advocating the death of others. I'd be happy to post the links, but all you have to do is click on any thread.

There is so much xenophobia in here that it literally makes me sad for all of you. So many opinions are so greatly askew that it breaks from the most fundamental principles of Christian doctrine. Peace, LOVE for others, and Tolerance.

[Eye of the Beholder]

Re: Matt. 7:1

And I think HIS words speak clearly to all of us at HIS favorite church. But for those who are blinded by false religion and the crooked leaders they follow, of course, the plea to not be judged is a desperate one.

Calling your church HIS favourite is quite a bold statement to make. As for crooked leaders, you need look no further than the likes of Jerry Falwell.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: Matt. 7:1

Calling your church HIS favourite is quite a bold statement to make. As for crooked leaders, you need look no further than the likes of Jerry Falwell.

It may be bold, but since no one else follows the letter of the Bible, it is correct. Falwell is thus not a TRUE CHRISTIAN(TM) because he is not a Landover Baptist.

Of course we judge. We are commanded to judge. GOD reserves FINAL judgement but delegates earthly matters and divine ones as well.

Leviticus 19:15
In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?.

[Eye of the Beholder]

Re: Matt. 7:1

It may be bold, but since no one else follows the letter of the Bible, it is correct. Falwell is thus not a TRUE CHRISTIAN(TM) because he is not a Landover Baptist.

Ok, now you've lost me. Isn't a baptist a baptist? What's the difference between, say, a Southern Baptist and a Landover Baptist?

Forgive my ignorance, but I was told that Landover was a walled off community inside another larger community.

Is Landover Baptist like a breakaway faith?