[Basilissa]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

The Prime Minister, having just hours previously reworded a couple of paragraphs of Mrs. May's deal and removed the part about keeping the UK intact, wanted to get the Parliament to vote on his deal asap. Like now. Don't read it - sign it. The opposition (and some of his own team) thought they should read it first and demanded that Mr. Johnson lay out the consequences of his deal before Parliament votes on it.

That's odd. You'd think nowadays people would get used to signing papers without reading them - with mortgage documents being so long and confusing, and with all the software licenses we agree to.

Oh, this is perfectly straightforward, Sister Basilissa. One of the boys explained the innovation to me.

Basically a meaningful vote is a vote that counts. A meaningless or fake vote (previously referred to as "indicative", which was confusing as indicative is the opposite of subjunctive) is a pretend vote, where MPs show how they would vote if they were in fact voting, which they aren't. If the pretend vote goes the right way for the government, then they have a meaningful or real vote. If the pretend vote goes the wrong way, they don't. Foolproof, or "Classic Dom" as it's now known (a reference to Prime Minister Johnson's master-strategist, Mr Dominic Gowings).

Good grief. I really thank Jesus for making me a rather than a godless Brit.

The only problem is that MPs, unlike PM Johnson, are innately unreliable - or possibly just forgetful - and may vote differently the second time around, making what the British call "a complete Horlicks" of things. Hence the change of name from indicative to meaningless. I hope that is clear?

Well, that definitely explains the "meaningless" name! The question arises: why do even bother? Just to spend taxpayers' hard earned money?

How do you people manage to survive every day until 12 pm without a drink?!?

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

I do have a question for you, though: what is it about the MP's discussing whether they will or will not hold a meaningful vote? Do they have a choice between a meaningful vote and a meaningless vote?

Oh, this is perfectly straightforward, Sister Basilissa. One of the boys explained the innovation to me.

Basically a meaningful vote is a vote that counts. A meaningless or fake vote (previously referred to as "indicative", which was confusing as indicative is the opposite of subjunctive) is a pretend vote, where MPs show how they would vote if they were in fact voting, which they aren't. If the pretend vote goes the right way for the government, then they have a meaningful or real vote. If the pretend vote goes the wrong way, they don't. Foolproof, or "Classic Dom" as it's now known (a reference to Prime Minister Johnson's master-strategist, Mr Dominic Gowings).

The only problem is that MPs, unlike PM Johnson, are innately unreliable - or possibly just forgetful - and may vote differently the second time around, making what the British call "a complete Horlicks" of things. Hence the change of name from indicative to meaningless. I hope that is clear?

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

Great insights, sister Joanna. I do have a question for you, though: what is it about the MP's discussing whether they will or will not hold a meaningful vote? Do they have a choice between a meaningful vote and a meaningless vote? I do not expect you to know the answer, but would you be so kind to ask Matthew to explain this - in simple terms that a mere woman can understand?

Look it's really quite simple ladies. Mrs. Lytton-Vassey was more or less correct when she said: "It is not the business of the general public to interfere with the workings of democracy." That's all you need to hang onto when listening in when the men are talking (and.... don't you have anything better to do?).

The Prime Minister, having just hours previously reworded a couple of paragraphs of Mrs. May's deal and removed the part about keeping the UK intact, wanted to get the Parliament to vote on his deal asap. Like now. Don't read it - sign it. The opposition (and some of his own team) thought they should read it first and demanded that Mr. Johnson lay out the consequences of his deal before Parliament votes on it. Mr. Johnson generously waited until Monday then tried to hold the vote again but the Speaker (nobody quite knows why this person gets to decide) said ORRRDDDER and refused.

According to logic and The Law, the Prime Minister should now go about convincing people why his tweaked deal is better than Theresa May's deal. But that's hard work so expect a few weeks/months of anything but followed by excuses about missing homework and a last-minute plan that relies on everyone else doing something never done before and Boris flying around in a helicopter or doing a zipline. Just to recap: before he was Prime Minister he voted against 95% of the deal 4 times and of the 5% he changed he had previously said "I have to tell you that no British Conservative government could or should sign up to any such arrangement." Oops just signed it.

[Basilissa]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

Of course, Sister, this was the absolute master stroke:
If the Supreme Court ruled that the signed prorogation order had all the force of a blank piece of paper, presumably an unsigned letter would be considered equally if not even more worthless.

Nobody knows for sure, but presumably the second letter was signed? Were they put in the same envelope to save postage costs? We have not been told, and quite rightly so. It is not the business of the general public to interfere with the workings of democracy.

It is not our place to know such things. All I know is that Leave Means Leave and any suggestion that someone you know may possibly have voted Remain means you are a TRAITOR!

Great insights, sister Joanna. I do have a question for you, though: what is it about the MP's discussing whether they will or will not hold a meaningful vote? Do they have a choice between a meaningful vote and a meaningless vote? I do not expect you to know the answer, but would you be so kind to ask Matthew to explain this - in simple terms that a mere woman can understand?

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

Of course, Sister, this was the absolute master stroke:

However, Johnson declined to sign the letter and sent a separate letter outlining why he is opposed to delaying Brexit.

If the Supreme Court ruled that the signed prorogation order had all the force of a blank piece of paper, presumably an unsigned letter would be considered equally if not even more worthless.

Nobody knows for sure, but presumably the second letter was signed? Were they put in the same envelope to save postage costs? We have not been told, and quite rightly so. It is not the business of the general public to interfere with the workings of democracy.

Now, I don't pretend to know what Boris Johnson's Master Plan exactly is in this case, but this thing about prolonging the UK stay in the EU while saying you hate that and want Brexit ASAP, seems like a really good plan for the next decade or so.

It is not our place to know such things. All I know is that Leave Means Leave and any suggestion that someone you know may possibly have voted Remain means you are a TRAITOR!

[Basilissa]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

I must applaud Boris Johnson for emulating his idol, our Godly President Trump (), in his brilliant strategy of saying one thing and then something completely opposite the same day, as a strategic way to utterly confuse the enemies - and therefore proceed with the Master Plan without opposition:

Boris Johnson has written to the EU asking to delay Brexit despite saying that he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than do so, and insisting that there were "no circumstances" in which he would.
The prime minister wrote to European Council President Donald Tusk on Saturday evening requesting a three month delay to Brexit, after members of Parliament blocked a vote on his deal with the EU.
Under the terms of legislation passed last month, Johnson was legally obliged to request the delay after failing to secure approval from Parliament by today's deadline.
However, Johnson declined to sign the letter and sent a separate letter outlining why he is opposed to delaying Brexit.

Now, I don't pretend to know what Boris Johnson's Master Plan exactly is in this case, but this thing about prolonging the UK stay in the EU while saying you hate that and want Brexit ASAP, seems like a really good plan for the next decade or so.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

Looking at a late setback for the President, he may yet lose this poll. The House and Senate, led by Dems and Reps respectively, all voting for the same thing... ominous.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced that the US House of Representatives would begin a formal impeachment inquiry into Donald Trump, setting the stage for an extraordinary constitutional clash over allegations that the president sought the help of a foreign country to harm a political rival.

[T]hat afternoon, the Senate, in a rare act of bipartisanship, unanimously approved a resolution calling for the Director of National Intelligence to turn over the whistleblower complaint to Congress.

And then this.

Former Massachusetts Governor and Republican presidential candidate Bill Weld slammed President Donald Trump's contacts with the government of Ukraine in a television interview on Monday morning. "That is treason. It's treason pure and simple, and the penalty for treason under the U.S. code is death. That’s the only penalty"

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

So basically "Nothing to see here." It never happened and I don't know why the judges even bothered to waste their time with it.

Thank you, Mrs. Lytton-Vasey, for reading the fine print. I mainly read headlines and develop a gut feeling that forms the basis of a strong and unshakeable faith. I had much the same response to the 10 counts of obstruction of justice against Trump and his tortuous and voluminous dealings with foreign enemies friends. Nothing to see there.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

Dr Toole, the judges also said:

This Court has already concluded that the Prime Minister's advice to Her Majesty was unlawful, void and of no effect. This means that the Order in Council to which it led was also unlawful, void and of no effect and should be quashed. This means that when the Royal Commissioners walked into the House of Lords it was as if they walked in with a blank sheet of paper. The prorogation was also void and of no effect. Parliament has not been prorogued. This is the unanimous judgment of all 11 Justices.

So basically "Nothing to see here." It never happened and I don't know why the judges even bothered to waste their time with it.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

ANNNNNNNNYWAY... back on topic.

Other news today:

President Trump ordered his staff to withhold nearly $400m in aid days before he pressured Ukraine’s president to investigate Biden

So it's looking like a close run thing. However, "if Democrats do go ahead [with impeachment], there is virtually no prospect of the Republican-controlled Senate convicting and removing the president before the 2020 election." So the Republicans still have their principles until 2020. Let's see if Team Brexit can match that.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Anthony J. Toole
...the next 3029 days...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didymus Much
Tick-tock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Anthony J. Toole
Subtract off Summer recess and weekends and, of course, time for tiffin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanna Lytton-Vasey
...we now have to subtract an additional five weeks or so...

After a short break called by the British Prime Minister, the Parliament has been ordered by the Supreme Court to resume business. Apparently Boris Johnson was too generous in granting leave to his employees and so it was ruled illegal. Never a good deed unpunished, as they say.

The 11 judges ruled unanimously. They said the case was “justiciable” and subject to the law... They then ruled that the decision to prorogue parliament was unlawful because it had “the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification.” She added: “No justification for taking action with such an extreme effect has been put before the court.”

Boris Johnson responded saying that overruling his illegal suspension of Parliament has made his EU negotiating position - which was basically to go on vacation for 5 weeks - harder. It's somewhat analogous to how jail made it harder for Jeffery Epstein to receive massages from 15 year olds. Why do we have all these pesky laws?!

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

Dr Toole, if you are suggesting that I (a True Christian™ lady, wife and mother) am wrong about this then I fear I must correct you (a mere Forum Member).

No doubt you're right on the finer points of the B-grade celebrity circuit in Britain. All you guys sound the same to me: Christopher Biggins, Benny Hill, Kenneth Williams, Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, the list of potential or actual child molesters is endless. The only one I can stand is Bernard Manning - now that's a comedian who should've crossed the pond.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

That's Jonah Hill, member of the liberal elite. Why would anyone want to listen to him?

Dr Toole, if you are suggesting that I (a True Christian™ lady, wife and mother) am wrong about this then I fear I must correct you (a mere Forum Member). About five years ago my husband took me and all the children to see Biggins in pantomime in Southend (pronounced Sarfend). He was playing the part of a sinister elderly woman.

The younger children were terrified, as intended, and once their cries of distress had achieved maximum volume we left our seats, with cries of "Shame!" My three eldest boys, KJV in hand, declaiming Deuteronomy 22:5 and attempted to storm the stage. They were viciously repelled and sustained trivial bruising.

Suffice it to say that neither I, nor those of my children who were there, will ever forget the hideous, effeminate face of "Ms" Biggins.

[Basilissa]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

It does bring up the question of whether we here in America should consider having such a monarchy for emergencies - and installing the House of Trump for such purposes.

Why, I think that's a splendid idea, dear Brother WilliamJenningsBryan! And I, for one, cannot wait for the marvellous Coronation of our -sent King President Trump!

This very subject has been discussed in much detail by our Brother Alan Swallows, who brought up a very compelling Bible-based case for instating a Godly Monarchy of the House of Trump.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Which will last longer: Brexit dream or Trump presidency?

That's Jonah Hill, member of the liberal elite. Why would anyone want to listen to him?