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  • landoverlover
    Also loves Jesus and America
    True Christian™
    • Jul 2010
    • 828

    #1

    EXodus 34....HELP!

    I asked this question when I was Unsaved Trash, and was rightly rebuked for not using the proper Bible.

    Here's another attempt. As I recall, Moses made three trips to Mount Sinai.

    The first time, Moses received the 10 Commandments orally. There were no tablets.

    The second time, God gave Moses the 10 Commandments on stone tablets. Moses destroyed these in a fit of rage upon seeing the Israelites worshipping a golden calf.

    The third trip, Moses got a duplicate of the "original" 10 Commandments on stone tablets. This third trip is documented in Exodus 34, quoted below.
    I have highlighted these 10 Commandments in bold.

    Exodus Chapter 34


    1 And the Lord said vnto Moses, Hew thee two Tables of stone, like vnto the first: and I will write vpon these Tables, the words that were in the first Tables which thou brakest.

    2 And be ready in the morning, and come vp in the morning vnto mount Sinai, and present thy selfe there to me, in the top of the mount.

    3 And no man shall come vp with thee, neither let any man bee seene throughout all the mount, neither let the flockes nor herds feede before that mount.

    4 And he hewed two Tables of stone, like vnto the first, and Moses rose vp earely in the morning, and went vp vnto mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him, and tooke in his hand the two tables of stone.

    5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the Name of the Lord.

    6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, mercifull and gracious, long suffering, and abundant in goodnesse and trueth,

    7 Keeping mercie for thousands, forgiuing iniquitie and transgression and sinne, and that will by no meanes cleere the guiltie, visiting the iniquitie of the fathers vpon the children, and vpon the childrens children, vnto the third and to the fourth generation.

    8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

    9 And he said, If now I haue found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, goe amongst vs, (for it is a stiffenecked people,) and pardon our iniquitie, and our sinne, and take vs for thine inheritance.

    10 And he said, Behold, I make a couenant: before all thy people, I wil doe marueiles, such as haue not beene done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people amongst which thou art, shall see the worke of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will doe with thee.

    11 Obserue thou that which I command thee this day: Behold, I driue out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hiuite, and the Iebusite.

    12 Take heed to thy selfe, lest thou make a couenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee.

    13 But ye shall destroy their altars, breake their images, and cut downe their groues.

    14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Ielous, is a Ielous God:

    15 Lest thou make a couenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they goe a whoring after their gods, and doe sacrifice vnto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eate of his sacrifice,

    16 And thou take of their daughters vnto thy sonnes, and their daughters goe a whoring after their gods, and make thy sonnes goe a whoring after their gods.

    17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

    18 The feast of vnleauened bread shalt thou keepe: Seuen dayes thou shalt eate vnleauened bread, as I commanded thee in the time of the moneth Abib: for in the moneth Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

    19 All that openeth the matrixe is mine: and euery firstling amongst thy cattell, whether oxe or sheepe, that is male.

    20 But the firstling of an Asse thou shalt redeeme with a lambe: and if thou redeeme him not, then shalt thou breake his necke. All the first borne of thy sonnes thou shalt redeeme: and none shall appeare before me empty.

    21 Sixe dayes thou shalt worke, but on the seuenth day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in haruest thou shalt rest.

    22 And thou shalt obserue the feast of weekes, of the first fruits of wheat haruest, and the feast of ingathering at the yeeres end.

    23 Thrice in the yeere shall all your men children appeare before the Lord God, the God of Israel.

    24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt goe vp to appeare before the Lord thy God, thrice in the yeere.

    25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leauen, neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of Passeouer be left vnto the morning.

    26 The first of the first fruits of thy land thou shalt bring vnto the house of the Lord thy God. ........Thou shalt not seeth a kid in his mothers milke.

    27 And the Lord said vnto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenour of these wordes, I haue made a couenant with thee, and with Israel.

    28 And hee was there with the Lord forty dayes and forty nights: he did neither eat bread, nor drinke water; and he wrote vpon the Tables the words of the couenant, the ten Commandements.

    ****

    So....where are the 10 Commandments we all know?

    I can avoid seething a kid in his mother's milk - no problem, I'll use 2%.

    Landover has no "feast of unleavened bread." No one does.
    Landover has no "feast of weeks." No one does.
    Yet we are commanded to attend.

    AND there's no prohibitions or directives on adultery, coveting, bearing false witness, honoring father and mother, etc.

    I'd say this is just more bizarre contradictory nonsense, but of course I do not want to be stuck dead and spend eternity in hell.

    If I want to be a True Christian, I need help here. These are, after all, THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.
    Leviticus 13:44 He is a leprous man, he is UNCLEAN: the priest shall pronounce him utterly UNCLEAN; his plague is in his head.

    2 Kings 6:25 And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.



    King James Bible v1611

    Good Enough For JESUS....Good Enough For Me !!

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  • Rev. Jim Osborne
    True Christian™ Televangelist
    Director of Fundraising and Tithing
    On the Look Out for Wife #6!
    True Christian™
    • Jun 2009
    • 8622

    #2
    Re: EXodus 34....HELP!

    Brother,

    I actually thank you for bringing this up. This is one of the most intricate and misunderstood parts of Christian theology, and is worthy of a proper teaching to the masses. We as True Christians™ believe in the infallibility of the Bible, believe that it cannot contradict itself, yet doesn't this passage differ tremendously from Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5?

    Please bear with me because this is a complex subject and requires a substantial explanation.

    It is usually argued that here, God said He would make a set of tables containing the words that were on the first set; yet the ten commands that follow do not match the usual set of "Thou shalt not..." commands.

    The answer: Ex. 34 contains a ritual Decalogue that is likely meant to be parallel to the ethical Decalogue, and Ex. 34 as a whole is a narrative of the renewal of the covenant following the golden calf incident.

    The ritual Decalogue is an addition in light of that incident, and note that Moses is commanded to write them, whereas it is God who will write the new copy of the ethical set (34:1, 28; the subject of "he wrote upon the tables" in the last verse is God -- it is because these critics understand the subject as Moses that they are missing the point).

    With that, what about the differences between Exod. 20 and Deut. 5? Let's run them in parallel and see what the issue is:
    Thou shalt have no other gods before me. -- Same words in Deut. 5.
    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. -- Same as in Deut. 5, other than perhaps some difference in vocabulary.

    Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. -- Again, the same.
    Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    This is where the objections begin, and it's not about minor differences in vocabulary (for example, the ox and ass are specified, versus the generic "cattle"); rather, the charges emerge in the difference in reason for the Sabbath. In Exodus 20:11ff, it is said, it is becase of creation's seventh day; but in Deuteronomy 5:15 we are told:
    And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
    Godmocking atheists would do well to recall here, though, that Exod. 20 and Deut. 5 are addressed to different sets of people with different experiences -- the first set had just been released from Egypt; the second set had never known slavery but were born during the Exodus; moreover, the Deuteronomy covenant would rule those who came afterwards who never knew the toil in Egypt.

    The initial generation had been saved from Egyptian slavery by way of incredible miracles; for these people, the role of God as Creator was a central truth -- and they would need no reminder that they didn't get a day off in Egypt. But now, as the Israelites are about to cross the Jordan and enter into the unknown perils of taking over the Promised Land, they are better reminded of the Sabbath in light of the former (and unknown by experience) plight as slaves.

    Of course, the original release marked the redemption of the Israelites, but mainly their creation as a covenanted nation. Note also that there is a difference in the word used: Ex. 20 says to remember (zakar) the Sabbath day, and tells why God blessed the Sabbath; Deut. 5 says to keep (shamar -- the meaning is to protect or guard) the Sabbath, but rememeber (zakar) the slavery in Egypt.)

    Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. -- Only minor differences in vocabulary here in the first of the set.

    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. -- Here, the order of "wife" and "house" is different, and "field" is added in Deuteronomy -- no surprise, since the Exodus group was nomadic; the next generation would settle down into agriculture.

    And that's it. There's just no reason to make an issue of the variations.

    YIC,

    Rev. Jim Osborne

    Watch the #1 Televangelist Gospel Hour in the World! "Turn or Burn: Accept Christ or Go to Hell with Rev. Jim Osborne." Check your local cable listings.

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    • landoverlover
      Also loves Jesus and America
      True Christian™
      • Jul 2010
      • 828

      #3
      Re: EXodus 34....HELP!

      Wow. I am impressed. My humble thanks, Reverend.
      Leviticus 13:44 He is a leprous man, he is UNCLEAN: the priest shall pronounce him utterly UNCLEAN; his plague is in his head.

      2 Kings 6:25 And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.



      King James Bible v1611

      Good Enough For JESUS....Good Enough For Me !!

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