[Back against wall]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

I don't know about any blind men but as I once wrote and illustrated children's books during a previous stage of my life (in between the stages of music and punching people senseless) I thought I would relive those days once again. I am not sure if I am being nostalgic or if it's the childlike, idiotic innocence I sense from your posts that made me want to produce this image for you.

I shall make you another. We True Christians can be quite accommodating especially when it comes to the clueless individual. We help where we can. Until it is not any longer in Gods best interest.

Here is a picture of an Auditorium that Gandhi may of spoken in if the Englitch didn't kill him for instigating violence.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

I am confused and I must say I am feeling a bit awkward because my marital status is being discussed in the open. Yes, I can't deny that my parents have been putting me under pressure to marry but I am at the moment very happy to be teaching the children and living the life of an independent young woman. Yes.

You seem to have made quite a hit with one of the newer brethren who's noticed how eager you are to learn more about Jesus; perhaps you should co-operate on some children's books as you can see he's quite talented with the pictures and it's important for everyone to learn the consequences of following baseless beliefs.

Now one of my friends is considering becoming a jain and I'm keen to learn some more details so I can explain why that would be a bad idea. Checking in an ancient history encyclopædia I was horrified to read:

THE KUMBHA MELA & VARANASI
The Ganges is considered a tirtha which means a crossing point between heaven and earth. At a tirtha, prayers and offerings are thought most likely to reach the gods and, in the other direction, blessings can descend most readily from heaven.
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The river is, along with two other sites, the location of the extraordinary Kumbha Mela ritual which dates back to at least the 7th century CE. Now held every three years, Hindu pilgrims of all social status perform a ritual bathing in the river which is thought to purify body and soul, wash away karma, and bring good fortune. The event, involving from 70 to 100 million people, grows ever bigger and can claim to be the largest human gatherings in history. Waters from the Ganges are also collected by believers and taken home for use in rituals and as an offering. Drops from the river are also dropped into the mouth before a body is cremated.

One of the most sacred sites in India is alongside the Ganges at Varanasi. Here, in one of the oldest inhabited cities in the world, there is the Hindu Golden Temple, dedicated to Shiva.
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The site is also sacred to Jains and Buddhists but it is perhaps most famous as a place of retirement, cremation, and the spreading of ashes upon the sacred river.

Hindu tradition worships cows, as is fairly well known, but less appreciated is what the consequences of such fatalism are. Apart from staggering over-population and a raft of horrendous social conventions to accommodate the resulting poverty, we see how in their desire to escape the cycle of reincarnation obsessed individuals bathe in their "sacred" river for some sort of special "magic" blessing. Jain thinking is less well understood. Would you share this belief?

THE GANGES IN SACRED TEXTS
Described in the Mahbharata as the 'best of rivers, born of all the sacred waters' the Ganges is personified as the goddess Ganga.

Perhaps what "sacred" means in India is not the same as for historical figures like Moses. Jesus delivered many from demons but the Ganges rolls calmly along as demons calmly watch & dogs devour the human corpses through their human eyes.

PARENTS WITH CHILDREN PRESENT
WARNING GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION
PARENTS WITH CHILDREN PRESENT

DAILY MAIL English news service

AL JAZEERA Qatari news service


Now there is a good range of views represented there. Some might be accused of bias but they could not all have the same bias as you, being an educator, will appreciate.

Perhaps having seen off the loved one at a traditional funeral and wishing for a better afterlife by floating the body away down the river it doesn't greatly matter what happens to the remains. Might as well rot in water as in earth. The view is reflected in a comment:

FROM THE AUDIO LINK
Gross body comes from food, sustains on food and becomes food. That child / soul is safe. Body appears to be alive / pulsating with life only because of energy / consciousness.

But even overlooking the new-age psychobabble, that is hardly the point. People bathe in and drink this water as a matter of religious indoctrination, resulting from it, perpetuating it. Surely something could be done? But no; it's always someone else..

FROM AL JAZEERA LINK
Local residents blamed the state and federal government for the floating bodies.
"The environment is being polluted and it is a very shameful thing. Both the federal government and state government are responsible," resident Alok Dikshit told the Reuters news agency.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who was elected to represent the 3,000-year-old riverside city of Varanasi, has pledged to clean up the ganges, as part of a broader push to husband India's scarce water resources and improve standards of public health and of public health and hygiene.
However, previous attempts to clean up the river, including introducing flesh-eating turtles to devour the charred remains of the dead cremated on its banks, have failed due to a lack of planning or coordination.
Tens of millions of Hindus bathe in the Ganges in an act of ritual purification, believing the river cleanses them of sin and frees them from the cycle of rebirth.

Living in a place like India is enough to make anyone long for a cleansing, to escape any possibility of being re-born there, except for maharajahs possibly but I'm not sure how much time they actually spend there these days. And if the method preferred is intestinal transit, so be it. Not having been indoctrinated into these religions I have other views myself but in the meantime people drink these putrid waters.

Wallow in them.

How can they disregard the corpses?

Jains were listed among those who worship this sewer in the history encyclopædia but I'd rather check with a real person so that I can advise my friend. Whatever they think they're doing results from what they're actually doing and that is explained rather succinctly here:

FROM THE DAILY MAIL LINK
Television footage showed dogs and birds feeding on the bloated and decaying bodies floating in the stream, whose waters are thought to have receded recently.
Police inspector general Satish Ganesh said they were probably given river burials upstream at a cremation area known as Pariyar Ghat before becoming stranded in shallow water.
Millions of Hindus practice open-air cremation, with the ashes of love ones scattered in the revered but heavily polluted Ganges. But poor families who cannot afford enough wood and other materials for the burning ceremony sometimes place the bodies in the water, while others are not cremated entirely.
While it is illegal to dispose of the dead in rivers, some practicing Hindus also believe that giving an unwed girl a water burial will ensure she is born again into the family.
The bodies of some holy men are also placed in the river instead of being cremated, in accordance with tradition.
The Hindu nationalist government of Narendra Modi has vowed to clean up the Ganges. But the discovery of so many bodies in one place has intensified environmental and health concerns.
Hindus bathe in the Ganges as an act of ritual purification.

The poverty is a direct and predictable result of the religion. Just as catholicism produced a squalid and disease ridden Europe so in India the hindoo. Jains may not be involved in this really quite extraordinary torpor and it would be great if you could respond to the point. It would help me to explain to my friend and could even be a suitable topic for a lovely children's book!

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

We have people from India in Jamaica. They eat strange food and talk funny. They do not bathe and they smell strangely. They pray to statues of gods and they wear unusual clothes. The only normal thing they do is smoke ganja.

[Back against wall]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

We have people from India in Jamaica. They eat strange food and talk funny. They do not bathe and they smell strangely. They pray to statues of gods and they wear unusual clothes. The only normal thing they do is smoke ganja.

Don't look now Dickwad but you just described every Jamaican in Jamaica.

Well done

[Harsha Shah]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

You seem to have made quite a hit with one of the newer brethren who's noticed how eager you are to learn more about Jesus; perhaps you should co-operate on some children's books as you can see he's quite talented with the pictures and it's important for everyone to learn the consequences of following baseless beliefs.

Now one of my friends is considering becoming a jain and I'm keen to learn some more details so I can explain why that would be a bad idea. Checking in an ancient history encyclopædia I was horrified to read:
Hindu tradition worships cows, as is fairly well known, but less appreciated is what the consequences of such fatalism are. Apart from staggering over-population and a raft of horrendous social conventions to accommodate the resulting poverty, we see how in their desire to escape the cycle of reincarnation obsessed individuals bathe in their "sacred" river for some sort of special "magic" blessing. Jain thinking is less well understood. Would you share this belief?

Perhaps what "sacred" means in India is not the same as for historical figures like Moses. Jesus delivered many from demons but the Ganges rolls calmly along as demons calmly watch & dogs devour the human corpses through their human eyes.

Now there is a good range of views represented there. Some might be accused of bias but they could not all have the same bias as you, being an educator, will appreciate.

Perhaps having seen off the loved one at a traditional funeral and wishing for a better afterlife by floating the body away down the river it doesn't greatly matter what happens to the remains. Might as well rot in water as in earth. The view is reflected in a comment:

But even overlooking the new-age psychobabble, that is hardly the point. People bathe in and drink this water as a matter of religious indoctrination, resulting from it, perpetuating it. Surely something could be done? But no; it's always someone else..

Living in a place like India is enough to make anyone long for a cleansing, to escape any possibility of being re-born there, except for maharajahs possibly but I'm not sure how much time they actually spend there these days. And if the method preferred is intestinal transit, so be it. Not having been indoctrinated into these religions I have other views myself but in the meantime people drink these putrid waters.

Wallow in them.

How can they disregard the corpses?

Jains were listed among those who worship this sewer in the history encyclopædia but I'd rather check with a real person so that I can advise my friend. Whatever they think they're doing results from what they're actually doing and that is explained rather succinctly here:

The poverty is a direct and predictable result of the religion. Just as catholicism produced a squalid and disease ridden Europe so in India the hindoo. Jains may not be involved in this really quite extraordinary torpor and it would be great if you could respond to the point. It would help me to explain to my friend and could even be a suitable topic for a lovely children's book!

Yes, Ms. Lizalor, Harsha Shah here!

I am trying to answer you honestly. I am taking the risk that I might be offending you horribly. Yes, I am sorry.

I must confess that I have not been to the Ganges. I have been watching some BBC documentaries and the upper reaches are magnificent. Yes, clear waters and the mountains. Then the river is flowing to Varanasi and the people are there. Yes. The water is polluted and murky. But I am thinking that you are making generalizations. While there are many people who are following the rituals, I am afraid that I am not one of them. I am also finding those scenes sad.

What do the people have? They have almost no possessions and no education. They are placing their hopes in rituals. They are prisoners of poverty. Yes. Some of those by the river are wealthy. Still they are doing the rituals. They are prisoners in spirit.

I would like to introduce you to four different types of religious living based on Indian mythology. Kama, Artha, Dharma, Moksha. There are many definitions and I am not saying that mine is the only correct one. It's the elephant again, I am afraid. Yes.

Kama: the ritual religion. "I believe in order to live", performing the empty rituals fearing that neglect could cause a disaster. This is the habit of religion, rites of passage, the birth, the baptism, the marriage, the funeral. This is what we see in Varanasi.

Artha: The social order. "Believe and I'll let you live!" This is the normative religion, the orders, the morality. The oligarchy of religion, yes. This is how you shall give birth, this is who you shall marry, this is how we punish you if you don't. Yes, I am seeing that this is very common in some forms of christianity and islam. I am sorry if this is offensive.

Dharma: "I live to believe". This is religon as a profession, a lifestyle. Yes, I am seeing lots of this in this Forum, total immersion into studying the book. This is for the priests and pristesses and the universy scholars. Yes.

Moksha: "of life, universe and everything err....." This is beyond religion. To see that the philosophy of religion is at best a roadmap. Yes. You can also tear the roadmap apart. There is a book about planet Mercury and there is the equation based on the theory of relativity about how its perihelion moves. But the planet Mercury is not the book nor the equation. Tear the roadmap. Then you are looking at the actual world and universe and it becomes insignificant if the original doctrine was the bible or torah or quran or the Jain doctrine. No more partial truths but an overwhelming confusion. Instead of rituals and symbols there is actual life and there are options. Yes, the best method of release is the one that is suspicious of itself. Yes.

I am thinking that this might be quite offensive. I am finding the pollution of Ganges offensive also but to get over it we must offer the people who revere the rituals an alternative and I have not got anything to offer except education. Yes. It is sad. It is causing poverty both material and mental. Yes.

Thank you, Ms. Lizalor for your wise comments. I am thinking that we are more alike than I dared to hope. Yes.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

God is so terrific! He gave us all the creatures to make use of that enables our short time here on His Magnificent Earth bearable until He decides to lovingly scoop us up to Heaven or mecifulessly throw the utterly worthless to the pits of Hell
Back on topic, I too, think about elephants whenever I have to go out in the rain.

[Back against wall]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

A most magnificent Sword Brother James. I especially like the Umbrella with the spring loaded Barb in the tip. The button placement is fantastic.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Harsha Shah is thinking about elephants

A most magnificent Sword Brother James. I especially like the Umbrella with the spring loaded Barb in the tip. The button placement is fantastic.

Thank you.
I got the sword when I was a Marine in the 'Nam. Its' razor sharp edge has felt the flesh of many coolie necks.
The umbrella was a gift from Col. North, a close and personal friend and a True Cristian(tm) of the highest order that had the jooish conspiracy unjustly persecute. He carried it at all of his trials.