[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Alan and Elmer,

The Bible warns against this sort of behavior.
Second Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.

There was certainly a falling away from Apostolic teaching and practice from the 1st Century onwards. You want me to accept what you say, but will not allow me to listen to others who I have learnt to trust for over 50 years.

So you're saying these commentators you like so much know better than Jesus, who used the present tense.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

My understanding of Exodus 3:14 was developed within my fellowship, mainly by personal discussion. The KJV translators used the present tense for Exodus 3:14, contrary to Tyndale’s translation, possibly because they thought Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14 in John 8:58.

John 8:58 is part of a series of “I am” passages, but the KJV usually translates these as “I am he”. The following are in the immediate context of John 8:58:
John 8:23-28 (KJV): 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

The KJV has added the “he” here as they did not believe Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14. He speaks of his Divine origin as the Son of God v23, and that he was the Son of Man v28 and his absolute dependence upon God His Father, “I do nothing of myself”. So as a KJV only advocate you have to accept the “he” in these verses. Also you rely also on your “Spirit” guidance, and I suspect that what you stated so affirmatively may not be the “Spirit” speaking, but because you have always heard it said and accepted that John 8:58 is quoting Exodus 3:14.

And if we allowed research to determine our reading of the Bible, we would have to take a lot of parts out and translate a lot of verses differently - and we'd still be unsure about the meaning of some parts. Then I suppose we'd have to reject creationism and a lot of stories in the Bible that purport to be historical events. If you're commentators haven't done this, then they're being very selective in their research. I find it's best just to reject all research.

All that I can say is that is that you seem to be oblivious to some of the genuine help that others can give us. I will state again, I believe the entire Bible is inspired and infallible.

How can you live with all this uncertainty over what God's word really means? You do know He promised to preserve it forever, don't you?

Psalm 12:6-7: 6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Although I suppose a bit of uncertainty allows you to read into it what you want.

I read in the morning from an Interlinear RV/KJV, but use the KJV in our meetings. Comparison with the RV is not uncertainty but a benefit. So please give me your understanding of “Neginoth”. My brief research suggests that in Habakkuk 3:19 it is translated correctly. Please note that the word “them” Psalm 12:7 is actually the Hebrew word “him”, and you are misreading God’s spoken and written word based on the error of the KJV here – please check. But yes, God has preserved His Word and is readily available in many translations. My son in law prefers to read the OT using his Hebrew Bible.

Hence my fears. You are not there yet but the symptoms are clear.

Possibly some of the things that I have said to Alan may explain my position. I have already stated that my main interests have been Galatians, Psalms and Isaiah. I have also stated that I believe the Gospel of Christ. You suggest that I am side-tracked from the main issues by minor considerations, but that is not the case. I consider our Sunday morning meeting where we remember our Lord’s death and resurrection, our Sunday evening where we have a discussion on the Bible and our Wednesday Bible Class where we have an exposition usually on a chapter as well balanced. I have considered Psalm 8 in detail, and enjoy the NT application. I also consider Thirtle’s suggestion of Muth-labben attached to Psalm 8 beneficial, and I like Bullinger’s book on Figures of Speech.

Kind regards
Trevor


Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia



Dear Trevor,

As I have stated, I am familiar with your position and find it very attractive albeit perilous. I'd highly appreciate if you considered also the following questions in addition to assessing the exegetical position of literacy/illiteracy applied to your fascination with the dissection of words.

Why should that be done among fellow believers is beyond me. Are you trying to make us believe the Bible is True™? Are you attempting to offer us alternative texts while we feel that KJV is not actually a "translation" but a text transmitted by the Holy Spirit? Or are you trying to rationalize Faith to yourself? I ask you to search for your motivation. What are you trying to convert us to actually?

...

How would this change the message for the congregation listening to the World of God spoken? Would a "translation" different from the KJV gain more souls to the Lord?

I am not saying that you avoid answering these questions. I am suggesting that you should reflect yourself if you are avoiding them.

Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Elmer,

"we feel that KJV is not actually a "translation" but a text transmitted by the Holy Spirit?

I cannot agree with your claim here, and the few details that I have stated are proof enough to me that the KJV has errors even though it is an excellent translation, and it is my preferred translation. I am not interested in discussing KJV only concepts any further. If this is one of the forums essential criteria then I need to move on.

Kind regards
Trevor


Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[BrotherLarry]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Elmer,
I cannot agree with your claim here, and the few details that I have stated are proof enough to me that the KJV has errors even though it is an excellent translation, and it is my preferred translation. I am not interested in discussing KJV only concepts any further. If this is one of the forums essential criteria then I need to move on.

Kind regards
Trevor


Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

Oh, Trevor, Trevor, Trevor!

Is this how men are in Ausria? As soon as something becomes uncomfortable, it's time to "move on?" I did not quite catch your age, but I assumed that at least your orbs of sperm production might have long since fallen into the ugly sack from which soldiers of Christ spew forth (sorry, Ladies, for the visual). Apparently, I was wrong.

I am not known here for my eloquentations, but I am known for being a staunchwart and solidified believer in all that is Holy and Christ-like. What is so difficult about accepting the KJV as perfect and inspired by the Holy Ghost? Is not God perfect? Did not God's Holy Ghost breathe into the men of yore and move them to ejaculate the very words we read, over a hundred years later? Oh, how good is our GOD! How sweet His manna, how supple His nail-pierced hands!

I will not argue with you, sir, because there is no argument when it comes to the infallible WORD OF GOD. If the Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it! I have added you to my prayer list, and I will use an anointed prayer cloth as a point of contact between me and thee, believing that CHRIST will save your soul, knave that you are, and further believing that our GOD will bring you to the knowledge of His Perfect Will for your life. Do not hesitate! Jesus said that He would return quickly, and it's only been 2000 years, give or take! It could be today! It could be this very moment! It could be before I end this message to you! OH, LORD, GOD, SEND YOUR SON NOW!

COME, LORD JESUS!
BrotherLarry

PS: Do not ignore the counsel of our beloved Pastor Ezekiel. You DO realize that in Heaven, Zeke's condo is in direct line of sight of the throne of GOD? (In fact, less than 40 feet away). You better recognize.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Elmer,
I cannot agree with your claim here, and the few details that I have stated are proof enough to me that the KJV has errors even though it is an excellent translation, and it is my preferred translation. I am not interested in discussing KJV only concepts any further. If this is one of the forums essential criteria then I need to move on.

Kind regards
Trevor


Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

Dearest Trevor,

I certainly hope you take your time to ponder the many facets of Faith that we offer on this Godly Discussion Forum and refrain from making hasty retreats based on ad misericordiam arguments. As you can see, many people have challenged the KJV only doctrine that we do find to be the correct one but please, understand that the burden of proof is yours to demonstrate that it is not directly inspired by the HS.

I would still like you to assess the 'hearing the Word of God' vs. 'meticulous dissection of each morpheme' especially based on some pivotal verses.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Elmer,
I cannot agree with your claim here, and the few details that I have stated are proof enough to me that the KJV has errors even though it is an excellent translation, and it is my preferred translation. I am not interested in discussing KJV only concepts any further. If this is one of the forums essential criteria then I need to move on.

Kind regards
Trevor

Then by all means move along, demon. It is apparent to anyone with eyes that satan has sent you here to disrupt and sow seeds of doubt. Go and tell your master satan that we have Jesus on our side, and petty debate trolls will not sway us.

Get thee hence!

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings “BrotherLarry” and Greetings again Elmer, and a Message for Alan (to start with),

Message to Alan: I accept the position that you do not like reference books, but could I recommend one to you that may be within your professed position. My involvement with this book is as follows. I purchased a cheap electronic package that had the KJV, Enhanced Strong’s, a few other resources and a book that I had not previously encountered, New Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge, Edited by Jerome H Smith. I had heard of TSK before and it was available with e-Sword. As you seem to be a Baptist, then you may be encouraged that the Editor is a Baptist, but possibly at the other end of the spectrum to you and your position. I liked the main feature of this book, cross-referencing of allusions and quotations from OT to NT and Pentateuch to Prophets and many other useful references. It does have some of his Baptist comments, but you can pick and choose to close your eyes in these parts. He has added figures of speech based on Bullinger’s book also. It is actually a thorough revision of TSK with many additions.

I liked the electronic version, but always prefer a printed copy for browsing so I searched the Internet for a copy and found that a Baptist bookstore near the Baptist Seminary in Sydney was advertising availability. I emailed, and he said he was out of stock but would seek a copy. I asked if I could pay by cheque, and he said it was OK. What surprised me was that he sent the book on trust and it arrived before I was even aware that he had tracked down a copy.

What was interesting and startling was the author in his preface stated that he nearly did not complete his work, as an assailant attacked him and shot him in the head (O America - Guns, Guts and Glory as per the icons). But instead of hindering his work, he had greater time available while he was recovering and was able to make a more thorough production, and also complete the work.

I only suggest this book because you offered the John 12 reference when I talked about Isaiah 6. This book is an excellent resource to discover more of these links.

Is this how men are in Ausria? As soon as something becomes uncomfortable, it's time to "move on?"

Perhaps it is also the content of your Post that makes me feel uncomfortable. I have certainly encountered some colourful (no pun intended) characters, but I am a bit reticent to use similar methods, ideas and language.

… understand that the burden of proof is yours to demonstrate that it is not directly inspired by the HS.

I would still like you to assess the 'hearing the Word of God' vs. 'meticulous dissection of each morpheme' especially based on some pivotal verses.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I do not intend to challenge you any further on this subject. I certainly endorse the need to hear the word of God, so that faith may develop and grow. My original aim in joining is stated in my opening Post, but the door seems to be at present shut I will be content to discuss any item in this vein.

My main aim in joining is to discuss the Bible and the Gospel of Christ. I hope to learn by interaction with other believers. I have a special interest in various books of the Bible, such as Psalms, Isaiah and Galatians and if I see any discussion on these I would at least read and possibly discuss what is on this thread.

Kind regards
Trevor


Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Pastor Ezekiel,

Then by all means move along, demon. It is apparent to anyone with eyes that satan has sent you here to disrupt and sow seeds of doubt. Go and tell your master satan that we have Jesus on our side, and petty debate trolls will not sway us.

Get thee hence!

I posted yesterday after this Post, and did not notice your message until later. I am not sure if you fully represent the Landover Baptist Church, but it does not speak well of this forum at least. You certainly are not happy with what I have posted, and I can accept a difference of opinion but I suggest that you are not acting in an appropriate manner.

I have also now opened my User Control Panel in a failed attempt to change my Avatar. I now find that you have added 14 similar messages against my posts with similar messages. Two of them I would not repeat in public.

My Bible reading this morning was Psalm 11 and it speaks of the opposition that David and Jesus faced, but I was comforted by that reading.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 11:1-7 (KJV): 1 In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? 2 For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. 3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD’S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. 5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. 7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[BrotherLarry]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Pastor Ezekiel,

I posted yesterday after this Post, and did not notice your message until later. I am not sure if you fully represent the Landover Baptist Church, but it does not speak well of this forum at least. You certainly are not happy with what I have posted, and I can accept a difference of opinion but I suggest that you are not acting in an appropriate manner.

One simply does NOT doubt the superlative faith and devotion of Ezekiel Flint, good sir. Not only does he represent Landover Baptist Church, he represents CHRIST HIMSELF. There is no truer Christian. There will never be a truer Christian. I pictured the angels in Glory gasping as they read what you spewed onto these venerable pages. No doubt the Archangel Michael was held back by Jesus Himself from trampling on you. (You don't want Michael to trample you!)

If this is what you learn in Ausria, then may I never step foot there. I have put a purple highlight over your name in my prayer list as being one of those least likely to find Salvation(R), but perhaps through the loving and tender ministry of Landover you might still find Christ's forgiveness. I strongly recommend a hot cup of humility and a LOT of time on your knees.

Pastor Ezekiel, I know this is small beans to you, but don't bind him in heaven and earth just yet (Matthew 16:19 Matthew 18:18). Shew mercy unto this vile sinner.

COME, LORD JESUS!
BrotherLarry

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again “BrotherLarry”,

One simply does NOT doubt the superlative faith and devotion of Ezekiel Flint, good sir. Not only does he represent Landover Baptist Church, he represents CHRIST HIMSELF. There is no truer Christian. There will never be a truer Christian. I pictured the angels in Glory gasping as they read what you spewed onto these venerable pages. No doubt the Archangel Michael was held back by Jesus Himself from trampling on you. (You don't want Michael to trample you!)

If this is what you learn in Ausria, then may I never step foot there. I have put a purple highlight over your name in my prayer list as being one of those least likely to find Salvation®, but perhaps through the loving and tender ministry of Landover you might still find Christ's forgiveness.

If you are serious then I am really concerned. BTW we went through the “Austria” episode, but you still persist and used it in you two Posts. Does Landover Baptist Church have the exclusive marketing rights to such expressions as True Christ™ and Salvation®.

I find that my avatar has now been changed by someone with Administrative Ability, and the picture is at least human, though perhaps chosen to discredit me. This latest avatar is different to the one that I submitted originally, and also different to the one I attempted to add yesterday.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 15 (KJV – arranged in poetic parallelism):
A Psalm of David.
1 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle?
who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly,
and worketh righteousness,
and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue,
nor doeth evil to his neighbour,
nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned;
but he honoureth them that fear the LORD.
He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
5 He that putteth not out his money to usury,
nor taketh reward against the innocent.
He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Grandma]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

You same you've come from AUSTRIA? Oh dear. Perhaps if you read our many tips here you can be rehabilitated! Why do you need to be rehabilitated you say?

God hates Austria!

Why, they even have the flag of the Brits in it!

Since the 1970s, many laws have been passed in Ausralia to make it okay to be a homer! Also since the 1970s, the Austrian government has stopped stealing the children of aboriginal Hamites! They have encouraged the abos to go to the big cities and leech the welfare off of hard-working whites, His chosen people!

40% of marriages in Australia end in divorce!
De 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Trevor, I like you, but I would encourage you to stop the whining. It's not very masculine behavior.

Just saying.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

On the other hand three respondents to this thread have almost been rewarded already:
“Pastor Ezekiel will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the glory!”
“Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the glory!”
“Elmer G. White will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the glory!”

James and John also sought the seats of honour:
Matthew 20:20-23 (KJV): 20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee’s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. 21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Perhaps this is why Jesus was not able to divulge what Apostle was to sit at his right hand at the time, because there would arise in the Latter Days at least three more claimants to the right-hand position, Pastor Ezekiel, Ezekiel Bathfire and Elmer G. White. At least James and John agreed to defer to each other, and reluctantly accept the left-hand side, but each of you are demanding the right-hand side.

But Jesus has rebuked each of you already in his parable...

Jesus may not have had the authority to promise a place at His right hand, which it seems can only be occupied by one person. However, He does have the authority to promise a place on His own/ His Father's throne, which has enough sitting room for Jesus, His Father, and every True Christian™ who has ever lived. I'm sure it will be quite cozy.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

My Bible reading this morning was Psalm 11 and it speaks of the opposition that David and Jesus faced, but I was comforted by that reading.

My goodness! You're comparing yourself to the likes of King David and King Jesus now. Arrogant, much?

You know, it doesn't count as persecution if you bring hardship on yourself through your own foolishness.

First Peter 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently?

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

A Few Thoughts on Psalm 1

After reading through the OT once and the NT twice over three years I have started again reading the OT again from Psalm 1. This is an impressive Psalm and is an introduction to the Book of Psalms. Two sets of people and two ways are revealed, summed up in the last verse the way of the ungodly and the way of the righteous. The righteous are introduced in the first phrase, in the singular: “Blessed is the man”. Ultimately this one man is the Lord Jesus Christ.

At first his qualities are described by what he is not. The Psalmist gives us three poetic parallels, and each appears to be a decline on the next. If these are lined up, each of three phrases seem to be progressively worse:
Psalm 1:1 (KJV): Blessed is the man
that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor standeth in the way of sinners,
nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Thus the Psalmist by this method also introduces to us the ungodly, sinners and the scornful.

And this is contrasted with what the blessed man is:
Psalm 1:2 (KJV): But his delight is in the law of the LORD;
and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Two key words are introduced, “delight” and “meditate”. Both of these qualities are not natural to man, but need to be firstly chosen, then cultivated and allowed to grow. The whole purpose of the Book of Psalms could be summarised in these two words and this Book of Psalms and the whole counsel of God is designed to develop this “delight” and a mind that “meditates” upon the word.

The end results of these two classes of people are clearly depicted. The wicked or ungodly will become like chaff that the wind drives away, while the righteous will become like trees planted by rivers or streams of water bringing forth fruit.

The parallelism of verse 6 is condensed, and the following is required to complete the parallelism:
For the LORD knoweth (or regards) the way of the righteous and they shall live:
but God does not give regard to the way of the ungodly and they shall perish

It appears that Jeremiah meditated upon this Psalm, and applied it to his own circumstances. He expands this Psalm and gives more detail to the difficult times and trials in a figure of drought:
Jeremiah 17:7-8 (KJV): 7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. 8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

Jeremiah also gives the contrast as revealed in Psalm 1:
Jeremiah 17:5-6 (KJV): 5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

We may give every appearance of going in the way of God, but God knows our heart, he knows what choice we have made:
Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV): The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Kind regards
Trevor


Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

We may give every appearance of going in the way of God, but God knows our heart, he knows what choice we have made:
Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV): The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

How do you know you're really saved, Trevor? How do you know you're not deceived?

Matthew 7:21-23: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Second Thessalonians 2:11-12: 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.