[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

You got one thing right - the free will is a paradox and a lot of Christian minds have been trying to grapple with it for the past two thousand years. Augustine is a good example.

The most logical explanation is that even though we have free will, God in His Infinite Wisdom already knows what choices we are going to make. Hence, He knew that serpent was going to tempt Eve, and he knew that Eve was going to succumb to this temptation.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. -> God says that, not me.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? -> I won't say anything, I'll just let the Bible speak for me.
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?-> God told Moses that He creates people with deformities. So next time you want to tell me that God doesn't give cancer to little kids, think of this, first.
Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? -> Again, I prefer to trust Bible rather than your opinion.

I'm just a mere woman, so please explain to me, how am I getting these verses wrong.

I still dont think he thought that they would have succumbed to temptation. I think that they messed up his plan for a sinless world. If they hadn't eaten from the tree the world would have been perfect as God has always wanted a sinless world but when they did eat from it God carried out his plan for salvation.


As for cancer I dong believe God did it. God might make other deformities but not cancer. Humans screwing up the earth became so unhealthy they developed it within themselves or Cancer was caused by a little hiccup in nature and I dont know what that is.


As for the rest I cant explain.

[Dennis Lukes]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

God did not write the bible! He came to the author's and prophets and they recorded the messages he was telling them.

Oh boy.


Let's say famous author Stephen King decided to write another of his filthy Satanic books. He sits down at his computer and, before he can start typing, falls and breaks his hands. He still has an idea for a story, so he hires John Smith to type out his words for him. When he submits the story to his publisher, whose name should be listed as the author: Stephen King or John Smith?

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He does know everything about the temptjnv snake that was their and he but he wasnt planning on them disobeying! Oh my gosh! They had free will how is this so hard to understand!

You got one thing right - the free will is a paradox and a lot of Christian minds have been trying to grapple with it for the past two thousand years. Augustine is a good example.

The most logical explanation is that even though we have free will, God in His Infinite Wisdom already knows what choices we are going to make. Hence, He knew that serpent was going to tempt Eve, and he knew that Eve was going to succumb to this temptation.

God did not create evil. He created a tree and free will. Stop staying that he did.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. -> God says that, not me.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? -> I won't say anything, I'll just let the Bible speak for me.
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?-> God told Moses that He creates people with deformities. So next time you want to tell me that God doesn't give cancer to little kids, think of this, first.
Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? -> Again, I prefer to trust Bible rather than your opinion.

The bible is very reliable. It's just your getting the fall of man wrong

I'm just a mere woman, so please explain to me, how am I getting these verses wrong.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

So you're saying I should be rebuking your fingers for typing all of this blasphemy instead of you? God wrote the Bible and dictated it to humans who copied down His words (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Not one single word of the Bible came from the minds of the men who physically put them on the pages. Calling them authors is like calling a horse a cowboy, a gun a murderer, or a nurse a doctor.

God did not write the bible! He came to the author's and prophets and they recorded the messages he was telling them.

God didn't write the Torah either. Moses wrote the Torah

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

If this is just the one, single thing which God did not know, then He does not know everything. You have to pick a side, dear.

Either:

A) God knows everything so He knew that Adam and Eve would eat of the tree of knowledge when tempted by the serpent (and He knew the serpent would tempt them when He created it)

or:

B) God does not know everything, thus the Bible is lying when it says He does:

Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
1 John 3:20 - For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

So, which one is it?

Wow, seriously? God you imagine is such a helpless, powerless dude?
And here we go again - God knew that the serpent would tempt Eve, and yet He created it nonetheless.
I still do not know what you are implying. The Bible says that God created evil. Are you suggesting that the Bible is not a reliable source of information of the subject of who created evil?

Please respond carefully, you are hovering dangerously close to blasphemy.

Well, please forgive me, but I prefer to trust the Bible rather than you.

He does know everything about the temptjnv snake that was their and he but he wasnt planning on them disobeying! Oh my gosh! They had free will how is this so hard to understand!


God did not create evil. He created a tree and free will. Stop staying that he did.


The bible is very reliable. It's just your getting the fall of man wrong

[Dennis Lukes]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

They weren't written by God they were written by several different prophets and authors which God came to and directed them to record his words

So you're saying I should be rebuking your fingers for typing all of this blasphemy instead of you? God wrote the Bible and dictated it to humans who copied down His words (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Not one single word of the Bible came from the minds of the men who physically put them on the pages. Calling them authors is like calling a horse a cowboy, a gun a murderer, or a nurse a doctor.

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He does know everything but he didnt know they would disobey him.

If this is just the one, single thing which God did not know, then He does not know everything. You have to pick a side, dear.

Either:

A) God knows everything so He knew that Adam and Eve would eat of the tree of knowledge when tempted by the serpent (and He knew the serpent would tempt them when He created it)

or:

B) God does not know everything, thus the Bible is lying when it says He does:

Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
1 John 3:20 - For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

So, which one is it?

He gave them a chance. He knew of the consequences but thought that they would listen to him

Wow, seriously? God you imagine is such a helpless, powerless dude?

God created the serpent he made everything in the universe

And here we go again - God knew that the serpent would tempt Eve, and yet He created it nonetheless.

The scriptures that refer to him creating evil were written after the fall of man and they actually mean that God created the tree which contained the knowledge of good and evil. They were written after the fact

I still do not know what you are implying. The Bible says that God created evil. Are you suggesting that the Bible is not a reliable source of information of the subject of who created evil?

Please respond carefully, you are hovering dangerously close to blasphemy.

My point is is that the responsibility of evil deseasing humanity isnt Gods fault.

Well, please forgive me, but I prefer to trust the Bible rather than you.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

But they were written by God, who was there at the time. What's your point?

They weren't written by God they were written by several different prophets and authors which God came to and directed them to record his words


My point is is that the responsibility of evil deseasing humanity isnt Gods fault.

[Dennis Lukes]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

The scriptures that refer to him creating evil were written after the fall of man and they actually mean that God created the tree which contained the knowledge of good and evil. They were written after the fact

But they were written by God, who was there at the time. What's your point?

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

So basically, you think that God does not know everything, and He created the tree not knowing that Adam and Eve could eat from it? Not knowing that possible consequences of such an even would bring suffering to humanity?

Simple example: when you see a parent who puts a dish with boiling water within the reach of a toddler, and then the toddler inevitably ends up with second degree burns, do you blame the toddler? Or do you blame the parent, who should have known that his child is curious?

In God's case, God definitely knew that Adam and Eve were curious, because He created them this way. And because He knows everything. Which means even before creating the tree He already knew Adam and Eve would eat from it.

Like the parent who could have prevented the tragedy by not placing boiling water within the reach of a toddler, God could have prevented evil by not creating the tree.

Bonus points question: who created the Serpent? (Answer is in Genesis chapter 3).
What are you suggesting? Please explain.

The scriptures that refer to him creating evil were written after the fall of man and they actually mean that God created the tree which contained the knowledge of good and evil. They were written after the fact

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

So basically, you think that God does not know everything, and He created the tree not knowing that Adam and Eve could eat from it? Not knowing that possible consequences of such an even would bring suffering to humanity?

Simple example: when you see a parent who puts a dish with boiling water within the reach of a toddler, and then the toddler inevitably ends up with second degree burns, do you blame the toddler? Or do you blame the parent, who should have known that his child is curious?

In God's case, God definitely knew that Adam and Eve were curious, because He created them this way. And because He knows everything. Which means even before creating the tree He already knew Adam and Eve would eat from it.

Like the parent who could have prevented the tragedy by not placing boiling water within the reach of a toddler, God could have prevented evil by not creating the tree.

Bonus points question: who created the Serpent? (Answer is in Genesis chapter 3).
What are you suggesting? Please explain.

He does know everything but he didnt know they would disobey him. He gave them a chance. He knew of the consequences but thought that they would listen to him


God created the serpent he made everything in the universe

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He created a tree but hes not at fault that evil has free reign.

So basically, you think that God does not know everything, and He created the tree not knowing that Adam and Eve could eat from it? Not knowing that possible consequences of such an even would bring suffering to humanity?

Simple example: when you see a parent who puts a dish with boiling water within the reach of a toddler, and then the toddler inevitably ends up with second degree burns, do you blame the toddler? Or do you blame the parent, who should have known that his child is curious?

In God's case, God definitely knew that Adam and Eve were curious, because He created them this way. And because He knows everything. Which means even before creating the tree He already knew Adam and Eve would eat from it.

Like the parent who could have prevented the tragedy by not placing boiling water within the reach of a toddler, God could have prevented evil by not creating the tree.

The blame for that falls on the serpent who tempted Eve.

Bonus points question: who created the Serpent? (Answer is in Genesis chapter 3).

Those scriptures were written way after the Fall of Man

What are you suggesting? Please explain.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

From the Bible passages which are in my post you just quoted.



Hint: they are in bold dark red font.

He created a tree but hes not at fault that evil has free reign. The blame for that falls on the serpent who tempted Eve. Those scriptures were written way after the Fall of Man

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

God did not create evil. God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and Adam bit the fruit from the tree and became knowledgable. That's why the world is so evil. Where did you get that idea from?

From the Bible passages which are in my post you just quoted.



Hint: they are in bold dark red font.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Um, sweetie, where did you get the idea that God is compassionate and merciful towards humans? Because that is not the message of the Bible!

After all, the Holy Bible teaches us that God created evil which causes human suffering:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

God did not create evil. God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and Adam bit the fruit from the tree and became knowledgable. That's why the world is so evil. Where did you get that idea from?