[Dana723]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

My opinion on AI: It was a pretty bad movie. First, the kid robot was creepy. Then there was a gay robot? I think he died though. Then the kid robot went underwater and found some aliens. It didn't make a lick of sense.

[WilliamJenningsBryan]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Nice one


Anyway, I'll make you a bet. I give AI a maximum of 50 years (Though it's probably more like 25) before it become AGI, and then ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence). A while before then, I intend to take part in the creation of an AI that will be able to convince you, and any other religious person to become atheist. If I do, you owe me 10 bucks. how 'bout it?

Had that insufferable college dropout twit Mark Zuckerberg ever finished college he might have learned a few things - like Gödel's incompleteness theorems, Tarski's undefinability theorem, Hilbert's Entscheidungsproblem, or in your case Turing's theorem about when to stop.

These days Mark Zuckerberg continues to make a pest of himself, faces numerous scandals, and is instructing his army of drones to write AI "algorithms" to protect us all from hate speech, mysogny, islamophobia, and racism.

I have no doubt at AI can produce Obama clones that can read from teleprompters, Hillary clones that can say "Russia", news anchors that can repeat "Putin" and "Impeachment", and Beto's than can skateboard (but not without accidents - just like those AI self driving cars).

We here at the Landover Baptist Church spend an inordinate amount of time banning trolls, and we've been looking at outsourcing this expensive task to India - but the dot heads have distinguished themselves as more concerned about mooselimbs, hindaloos, and sacred cows. Show us how AI is better than Jesus and we might consider it.

[James Hutchins]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

As a True Christian™, it breaks my heart when one of these lost souls comes here with their chest all puffed out declaring they 'just know it all' and when provided simple proofs, they slither away back down the rabbit from from where they came. Not clutching the firm, uplifting Bosoms of Christ©, being nourished with His Everlasting Love©.
As just a regular person, I imagine life would be simpler with no God. But with no God, there would be no purpose. There must be a purpose so therefore God must be.


If God = True then End
Loop God = False until True
Purpose = 0
God =True
Purpose = 1
God = False
Loop


It is not rocket science.

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Sorry I vanished. Caught up in work, you know how it is. Or maybe you don't.


Anyway, to anyone who's still here;

If God = True then End
Loop God = False until True
Purpose = 0
God =True
Purpose = 1
God = False
Loop

That's actually a pretty good attempt at code. True Christians never fail to surprise me.

There must be a purpose so therefore God must be.

I think that's a false premise. What is there to sya that there must be a purpose?

WilliamJenningsBryan[/COLOR];1252912]
Show us how AI is better than Jesus and we might consider it.

I take that as a challenge. First off, as I said, give it a few decades and you'll probably be able to see it with your own eyes.

Brother Gonzalez[/COLOR];1252912]
when I was a child, science magazines said we would be living on the moon by the year 2000. Do not believe all the hype.

True, but it looks like we are going to be living on Mars in 30 years or so, looking at what people like Elon Musk are doing, so the predictions were just 50 years early. Whereas Jesus's return has been predicted repeatedly ever since his death.


Secondly, Zuckerburg isn't even at the front of AI research. Google is. Here are some of their AIs who have learnt to walk;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn4nRCC9TwQ

and I assume you will have heard about how AIs beat the best human players in the world at Chess and Go.


The important thing here is that the AI isn't told how to walk or play chess - it's just given inputs (what it can "see") and possible outputs (what it can do to affect the situation) and told to figure it out by itself.


The goal in creating AGI is to create an AI that will be able to solve any problem. So you say "AI, do this" and the AI looks at the situation, runs through some possible situations in its head, and does a thing that will achieve the desired outcome. Given the examples above, I hope you can see how this isn't so far-fetched. And of course it goes without saying that it gets better at this every time it does it, and that it very quickly becomes millions of times better at completing any task than any human ever could be.


What you might find interesting is that, unless handled very very carefully, the first decision an AI is very likely to make is to destroy all humanity. Perhaps this is the second coming of Christ you speak of? Who knows.


I would love to hear your opinions on this. I won't be able to talk again today, but I will get back to you tomorrow (unless you really don't want me to). Also, if you read this far, thank you.

[James Hutchins]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

That's actually a pretty good attempt at code. True Christians never fail to surprise me.

I think that's a false premise. What is there to sya that there must be a purpose?

All True Christians are very well educated. To be able to know God is real requires a keen analytical mind. For example, I have a double masters from Princeton. One is in Business/Finance (so I could earn money to give to God) and the other was in Organic Chemistry, to be able to prove that only God can create life. I have acquired numerous certifications and certificates throughout my life. The most important being secure in the knowledge that God has me on the short list for a spot in Heaven.


If there was no purpose, then people would not strive for self awareness.

I take that as a challenge. First off, as I said, give it a few decades and you'll probably be able to see it with your own eyes.

Friend, the rapture will happen way before 30 years and therefore AI will never come to be, based on that alone, forgeting the premise of AI is absurd.
I recall in the 1960's, we were all told we'd have flying cars by 1975. Al Gore told us the world was going to burst into flames by 2010. Ron Regan promised we'd be bombing in five minutes. None came to be. Neither will AI. AI will never be anything more than Root beer or sarsaparilla. Only the prediction that 'The Donald' would be president came true.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

I recall in the 1960's, we were all told we'd have flying cars by 1975.

Do you remember the promise that we'd all be zooming around with jetpacks on our backs, Brother Hutchins? One of my earliest memories is of my dear father telling us about that nonsense, promulgated in his younger days. How we all laughed!

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Yes, but do you remember the promise that Jesus would come back only a few years after his death? Flying cars and jetpacks are science-fiction, not science, and those "predictions" are speculations by science-fiction authors. AIs are science.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Yes, but do you remember the promise that Jesus would come back only a few years after his death? Flying cars and jetpacks are science-fiction, not science, and those "predictions" are speculations by science-fiction authors. AIs are science.

AI is learning to walk and drive, which are simple functions. Playing an instrument or making art, also simple functions.


When AI learns the higher level functions, like worshipping a God (neither AI nor animals can do that, it's exclusive to the human kind) THERE we can talk about IA being independent.

[James Hutchins]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Do you remember the promise that we'd all be zooming around with jetpacks on our backs, Brother Hutchins? One of my earliest memories is of my dear father telling us about that nonsense, promulgated in his younger days. How we all laughed!

Oh yes, I remember the "jet packs". Stories of being able to fly like an Angel when in reality all they did was toss you in the air and burn off your legs. Add to that the hokum about colonies on Mars!

If God wanted us to fly, He would of given us wings. If He wanted us to live on Mars, he would of made little green Martians (like we would need them on top of the messican menace!).

AI is learning to walk and drive, which are simple functions. Playing an instrument or making art, also simple functions.


When AI learns the higher level functions, like worshipping a God (neither AI nor animals can do that, it's exclusive to the human kind) THERE we can talk about IA being independent.

AI is very capable when vending a pop or a bag of beef jerky. It is not however able to do what God can, that is make a can of pop or a bag of Beef Jerky.

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

What AI is doing is not "learning simple functions", it's learning to solve problems.

Any problems. More and more by the day.


When one AI is able to figure out a solution to a problem without being trained for it specifically, it becomes AGI (Artificial General Intelligence). Then, due to the advantages it has in terms of speed and processing power, it quickly develops itself into ASI (Atrificial General Intelligence).


This could be very, very bad news indeed.


An ASI, from our point of view, is as great as God in every way that at all helps it solve problems. That is to say, we are then like an ant looking up at two trees. We cannot really say that one is bigger than the other, just because of how enormous they both are compared to us.


This isn't science fiction anymore - you've seen the examples. So God better do something quick. As I said, he's got at most a half-century; and he hasn't done anything for the past two millenia.

[James Hutchins]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

What AI is doing is not "learning simple functions", it's learning to solve problems.

Any problems. More and more by the day.


When one AI is able to figure out a solution to a problem without being trained for it specifically, it becomes AGI (Artificial General Intelligence). Then, due to the advantages it has in terms of speed and processing power, it quickly develops itself into ASI (Atrificial General Intelligence).


This could be very, very bad news indeed.


An ASI, from our point of view, is as great as God in every way that at all helps it solve problems. That is to say, we are then like an ant looking up at two trees. We cannot really say that one is bigger than the other, just because of how enormous they both are compared to us.


This isn't science fiction anymore - you've seen the examples. So God better do something quick. As I said, he's got at most a half-century; and he hasn't done anything for the past two millenia.

Let's for a split second, imagine that your fallacy of AI was true. God still made it. Everyone knows that if they have Faith in God, anything is possible.
Any person with an even inadequate education knows you can figure out how tall a tree is without even looking at it. Based on the date, time of day and shadow on the ground, you can quite easily calculate the height of any object.
I'd like to see your AI make the wind blow, sun shine and stars Twinkle©. Fill the oceans full of life. Most of all, if AI is so great, why does it not simply create itself?

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

What AI is doing is not "learning simple functions", it's learning to solve problems.

Any problems. More and more by the day.


When one AI is able to figure out a solution to a problem without being trained for it specifically, it becomes AGI (Artificial General Intelligence). Then, due to the advantages it has in terms of speed and processing power, it quickly develops itself into ASI (Atrificial General Intelligence).


This could be very, very bad news indeed.


An ASI, from our point of view, is as great as God in every way that at all helps it solve problems. That is to say, we are then like an ant looking up at two trees. We cannot really say that one is bigger than the other, just because of how enormous they both are compared to us.


This isn't science fiction anymore - you've seen the examples. So God better do something quick. As I said, he's got at most a half-century; and he hasn't done anything for the past two millenia.

Learning to solve easy problems. And that is not how the brain works. At most, if AI develops as they say it going to, then will become as proficient as a brain with Asperger.


And about God and AI: God cannot be unplugged, AI can.


All the examples I have seen are AI driving or walking. Deep Blue was more impactful to my thinking, learning how to win in a digital game. That made a difference.


Again: empathy is the key here. A machine can be a replacement for a data scientist, never for a sales rep. Research into this topic, learn why, and then come back.


Or, instead, read the Bible and understand why AI could NEVER decide to flood the entire Earth to get rid of sinners while keeping only a family alive. That only is possible for a God. Can AI order "Thou shall not kill" while sending its people to kill all the neighbors? No, it can't; God did it. Can AI have a son with a woman without having sex with that woman? Well, technically, yes, but come on!


ASI and AGI are still science fiction, my friend. Multiple linear regressions and neural networks cannot reproduce the way we think. And this is the key of AI: as it doesn't think like us, but in a different way, it can be useful to replace all things with a routine involved.


Can AI invent the wheel? Not by chance. Can it test every possible wheel that could be made, and chose the best for an intended task? Yes. Better than a man? Yes. Better than God? No.


We have used Keras for designing a system to capture the highest possible amount of brownies at the border. It has been very efficient in telling us where and when this poor shithole aliens are going to try to trespass the US border, and it sends an automatic alert to the brave heroic militias that capture them and send them to jail. And is learning: not only captures messicans but also people from even shittier shitholes like Honduras and Nicaragua.


What is done with those messicans once captured, by order of Donald, cannot be predicted by any AI. We have tried and tried, but no AI can be as smart as the US current president.


God wins again!




PS: you have chosen to dodge the matter of why AI could never worship a God. This introduces a problem in your paradigm, so you chose not to answer it. Nice.

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

I'd like to see you AI make the wind blow, sun shine and stars Twinkle©. Fill the oceans full of life. Most of all, if AI is so great, why does it not simply create itself?

"Yea, It the AI does these things"


On a more serious note, an ASI would be able to do anything that is within the realms of possibility to accomplish whatever it thought would help it achieve its goal. Anything. So anything that is posiible, is doable by ASI. Of course you could say the same and some more for God but;


I'll give you a different analogy. Look at the following two numbers:
123456789012345678901234567890123456788000000
123456789012345678901234567890123456789000000
One number is bigger than the other, but does the difference seem significant? When looking at the size of the numbers, it seems minor. and yet the second number is 1,000,000 bigger than the first one.


The point here is that this is how ASI and God will appear to us (If God decides to show his face) - sure, there's a difference, but it will seem even more minor than in the example above in the face of the enormity of its/their power(s).

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

PS: you have chosen to dodge the matter of why AI could never worship a God. This introduces a problem in your paradigm, so you chose not to answer it. Nice.

An AI will worship a God if it thinks it necessary or complimentary to accomplishing its goals. Humans work like that too - we do things because we think it will make us happy, in the short or long term. You keep saying that humans are different from AI, but modern AI is just human thinking and brains refined and improved upon.

Can AI invent the wheel? Not by chance. Can it test every possible wheel that could be made, and chose the best for an intended task? Yes. Better than a man? Yes. Better than God? No.

But think about it; that's how humans invent things. We try out different ideas, and when one works, we use it. Surely you can see this?

And about God and AI: God cannot be unplugged, AI can.

But an ASI will do everything in its power to prevent that from happening; because then it would be unable to accomplish its tasks. So "unplugging an AI" is easier said than done. Keep in mind that you're dealing with a thing that could probably convince you to kill everyone you love through conversation alone, never mind stop you from flipping a switch. Furthermore, it would upload itself everywhere, so that in case you did flip the switch, it would still be alive on some other computer somewhere.

Again: empathy is the key here. A machine can be a replacement for a data scientist, never for a sales rep. Research into this topic, learn why, and then come back.


Or, instead, read the Bible and understand why AI could NEVER decide to flood the entire Earth to get rid of sinners while keeping only a family alive. That only is possible for a God. Can AI order "Thou shall not kill" while sending its people to kill all the neighbors? No, it can't; God did it. Can AI have a son with a woman without having sex with that woman? Well, technically, yes, but come on!

Again, the key thing here is that the machine will do, order or develop anything, ANYTHING, to achieve its goals. Be that develop empathy or "order "Thou shall not kill" while sending its people to kill all the neighbors", which is really just basic tribalistic behavior.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Who is this Al person anyway and what has he got to do with us?