I'm asking for it aint I?

[gadien]

Hello all. To answer one question I found this site at this link at the Tucker Max message boards. A little bit of back ground information that I'm comfortable sharing. I was raised catholic and Protestant. I want to say Presbyterian, but that could be wrong. When I was 3 I was placed into foster care and raised christian, well probably not what you all would consider christian. Wasn't allowed to believe in magic or aliens, watch certain cartoon shows, or anything else ungodly. Channel 40 (public christian channel in IN) was pretty much the only channel I was allowed to watch. When I was 7, I was returned to my parents, where I went to Catholic Church liberally, as my dad was ex Catholic.

When I entered sophomore year of high school I feel in love with a girl belonging to the The Church of Nazarene, and they too claimed to be the first true church; however, the church were full of hypocrites. For example they refused to help a family after a tornado wrecked their because they had a daughter outside the norm. That, and they refused to help the girl I feel in love with with her problem by giving her a godly answers which she desperately needed and wanted. Around this time I became heavily interested in philosophy, both secular and religious and read pretty much everything I could. Naturally, I become a christian leaning agnostic (probably a heathen in most board members eyes). What this means is that I believe Christianity, eg the moral codes prescribed in the bible, are more right than others; however, the similarities between the bible's core teachings and those of other religions leads me to believe that Man has corrupted most teachings to server his selfish. As such, I'm spiritual and not religious.

Other back ground. I attended Norwich university for college and majored in political science and criminal justice. I plan on either joining the military or going to law school this fall, but will join the military even if I go to law school.

Now flame away.

[Nobar King]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

We're not here you flame you, friend. This is a house of worship and anyone who seeks the love of Jesus is welcome here. Have you come here to flame Jesus or seek redemption? That is very important. Jesus does not appreciate being flamed.

I hope that you still aren't harboring resentment towards Jesus for the failures of your parents or the losers that were paid to raise you. Those weren't Jesus' fault.

[gadien]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

We're not here you flame you, friend. This is a house of worship and anyone who seeks the love of Jesus is welcome here. Have you come here to flame Jesus or seek redemption? That is very important. Jesus does not appreciate being flamed.

I hope that you still aren't harboring resentment towards Jesus for the failures of your parents or the losers that were paid to raise you. Those weren't Jesus' fault.

Wow. No I don't hate god, but like I said my version of god is different than yours. I believe that it is his prerogative to decide who is saved and damned. What you and I believe is irrelevant, only God's opinion matters in that regard.

I don't believe my foster parents failed in trying to raise me a christian because when I was younger I "wanted to be a Christian when I grew up" so I'm told. But I do believe that some people are predisposed to "blind" faith and I don't think I was.

I'm would come into someone's house just to mock them.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

Wow. No I don't hate god, but like I said my version of god is different than yours. I believe that it is his prerogative to decide who is saved and damned.

We agree.

Just like it is the prerogative of a judge and/or jury to decide who does to jail and who doesn't.

Does that mean that you shouldn't advise people against breaking the law? That if you know a lawbreaker, you should not try to make them stop committing crimes?

That's all we're doing here.

What you and I believe is irrelevant, only God's opinion matters in that regard.

This is our belief exactly. it doesn't matter what someone's opinion on executing homosexuals is, only God's opinion matters, and by the way God's opinion can be read by us, in the Bible.

[JennyD]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

Wow. No I don't hate god, but like I said my version of god is different than yours. I believe that it is his prerogative to decide who is saved and damned. What you and I believe is irrelevant, only God's opinion matters in that regard.

I don't see how your "version" is different, from these statements.

God gave us a book, the Holy Bible. In it, He lays out exactly who He will allow to serve and worship and praise Him in Heaven for all eternity, and who He will cast into unending torture in the Lake of Fire He has created for that purpose.

We certainly don't think we decide who is Saved(c) and who is not!

[gadien]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

I don't see how your "version" is different, from these statements.

God gave us a book, the Holy Bible. In it, He lays out exactly who He will allow to serve and worship and praise Him in Heaven for all eternity, and who He will cast into unending torture in the Lake of Fire He has created for that purpose.

We certainly don't think we decide who is Saved© and who is not!

Let me re-read the KJV, not sure if the version I currently have is, and I'll be able to go more in depth. But I believe that people who aren't Christians will be able to go to heaven, if they are moral.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

Let me re-read the KJV, not sure if the version I currently have is, and I'll be able to go more in depth. But I believe that people who aren't Christians will be able to go to heaven, if they are moral.

Then you don't believe John 3:16.

What does John 3:16 say about morality? Nothing. "So that all thay BELIEVE may have everlasting life".

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

Let me re-read the KJV, not sure if the version I currently have is, and I'll be able to go more in depth. But I believe that people who aren't Christians will be able to go to heaven, if they are moral.

So you believe that good works earns you a spot in Heaven?

That isn't a Christian belief. Take a look at THIS sermon.

God says that our "good works" are "as filthy rags" in the Holy Bible. Better re-think your mixed-up ideas about God, son.

[gadien]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

So you believe that good works earns you a spot in Heaven?

That isn't a Christian belief. Take a look at THIS sermon.

God says that our "good works" are "as filthy rags" in the Holy Bible. Better re-think your mixed-up ideas about God, son.

I know too many "Christians" who love Jesus and abide by Gods rules just for the sake of not going to hell. Doing so in my eyes shouldn't allow a person into heaven because they aren't doing good for the sake of good, but out of selfish reason. True moral upstanding people do good for the sake of good, nothing more. I don't know if these people will go to heaven, but then again I don't think God has any human qualities. Tell me, if hell didn't exist, do you think most people would still follow all God's commandments?

[Nobar King]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

Tell me, if hell didn't exist, do you think most people would still follow all God's commandments?

Did you come up with that by yourself?

[gadien]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

Did you come up with that by yourself?

I don't have to go to other people to come up with questions that are "common sense" and I believe its a legitimate question. Without civil retribution, some people would commit crimes such as smoking pot. Without divine retribution, some people would act on their carnal desires. I'm not claiming that anyone on these boards fall into that category, but if a person is only working to be saved to avoid punishment are they really saved?

[JennyD]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

I know too many "Christians" who love Jesus and abide by Gods rules just for the sake of not going to hell. Doing so in my eyes shouldn't allow a person into heaven because they aren't doing good for the sake of good, but out of selfish reason.

God decides what is good and evil, not you. I thought we'd already agreed on that.

True moral upstanding people do good for the sake of good, nothing more.

Any Christian will tell you that doing something "good" because you want to is sin. Doing the same thing because God wants you to is Godly.

I don't know if these people will go to heaven, but then again I don't think God has any human qualities.

That depends. He made us in His image, so we have a good idea that He looks like humans.

He also demonstrates anger, jealousy, humor, and regret in the Bible. Are those human qualities?

Tell me, if hell didn't exist, do you think most people would still follow all God's commandments?

If Hell didn't exist, that would mean the Bible is a lie. Therefore, God would not exist.

[gadien]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

God decides what is good and evil, not you. I thought we'd already agreed on that.

Any Christian will tell you that doing something "good" because you want to is sin. Doing the same thing because God wants you to is Godly.

That depends. He made us in His image, so we have a good idea that He looks like humans.

He also demonstrates anger, jealousy, humor, and regret in the Bible. Are those human qualities?

If Hell didn't exist, that would mean the Bible is a lie. Therefore, God would not exist.

You avoided my question. I'm not saying the bible is wrong, that hell doesn't exist, or that god is a liar. I'm asking do you think that some saved people would still do godly deeds if punishment wasn't part of the equation and if people are only doing godly work to avoid punishment then are they really saved.

[JennyD]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

You avoided my question. I'm not saying the bible is wrong, that hell doesn't exist, or that god is a liar. I'm asking do you think that some saved people would still do godly deeds if punishment wasn't part of the equation and if people are only doing godly work to avoid punishment then are they really saved.

That's not what you asked at all.

Being good is following God's Law because it's God's Law, not because you "want" to or think something is "right".

[gadien]

Re: I'm asking for it aint I?

That's not what you asked at all.

Being good is following God's Law because it's God's Law, not because you "want" to or think something is "right".

OK that's an answer to one of my questions I guess. So being good for the sake of good isn't part of the equation, being good because god says so = good. Do you think people would still be good, in the context with the above info, without retribution? Basically, would some saved people be godly good for the sake that god commands it without retribution? Also, are people who only act in accordance with god's law to avoid punishment truly saved?