[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Angela's Introduction

John 14:23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

But either way, it’s clearly not the master/slave relationship that came before. It’s very different to following orders,

The trouble you have here Joe is that you do not consider the alternative. Here, the alternative is that if you do not love Jesus, what will happen if you do not? – I think Sister JennyD explains that well:

It doesn't seem much different to me at all, Joe.

The servant may live in the Master's home.

John 15:

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

In other words, Jesus loves only those who do as He instructs. All others are cut off and cast into the fire.

That seems clear to me, and if it doesn’t to you, Luke 19:27 makes it very clear indeed.

I don’t think so. The passage says that a man who loves Jesus will reside with the Son and the Father. Through love. Is this an instruction?

No, the passage in John makes it clear that love is conditional upon acceptance; it is an offer you can’t refuse. To refuse it is to condemn your soul to eternal torment.

Say I say to you, “Joe, follow me and have eternal life or reject me and I’ll kill you – what is the relationship? The offer is so good you can’t refuse but nevertheless, the freedom to reject the offer and suffer a terminal experience is there yet limited. Who has all the cards? Is there really any democracy in this? Do you really have a say in the matter? You know you are not equal to Christ – least I hope you do!

There is quite a difference between this relationship and one that demands obedience, as a master does his slave.

Yes, there is isn’t there. (You did look up that verse in Luke, didn’t you?) Slaves don’t usually get killed (they are valuable cargo) just beaten a bit.

If a man abides not in Jesus, it is not Jesus who casts him into the fire. Nor is it the Father.

I’m not sure where you get this idea. Did not God create everything – including Satan and Hell? Does not God have power over Satan? Who then does make the decision? A soul itself cannot make that decision. You say that the man, in life, makes a decision and may suffer the consequences. Well he might, but Who actually opens the Gates of Hell? Who condemns to Eternal Torture, Who actually does that? (The uppercase pronouns are a clue - read Revelations, particularly when Christ comes to slay the unworthy.)

Because there is a world of difference between obedience - between slavery - and the other kind of relationship mentioned here. Jesus knew it.

Yes He did, indeed He did; He is offering much when you die for a small payment now. Refuse and you are in big trouble with God… never a good thing.

Ah, Joe, you are one for trying aren't you? You are trying to defend all those lies people have told you about Jesus - the bits they never told you about God The Father and now I think True Christianity, in all its beauty is beginning to shed its light on you.

Bless you Joe, we'll make a believer of you yet!

[joe707]

Re: Angela's Introduction

I don’t think so. The passage says that a man who loves Jesus will reside with the Son and the Father. Through love. Is this an instruction? There is quite a difference between this relationship and one that demands obedience, as a master does his slave.

If a man abides not in Jesus, it is not Jesus who casts him into the fire. Nor is it the Father. Who does? It is clear in the passage. How do you react to this, compared to what is written in Deuteronomy or Exodus? I have seen it said elsewhere that there are no contradictions in the Bible. How do you account for that? Because there is a world of difference between obedience - between slavery - and the other kind of relationship mentioned here. Jesus knew it.

[JennyD]

Re: Angela's Introduction

It doesn't seem much different to me at all, Joe.

The servant may live in the Master's home.

John 15:

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

In other words, Jesus loves only those who do as He instructs. All others are cut off and cast into the fire.

[joe707]

Re: Angela's Introduction

Can you answer my question, or not?

Define the "personal relationship" in which Jesus "speaks" to you, and show me where you find it in the Bible.

John 14:23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

This is a relationship. Loving and being loved by the Son and the Father, and residing with them both sounds rather personal too. Can you love and be loved without that being personal? It seems it's more than that though; it surpasses the personal. A word that psychologists like to use is transpersonal – meaning beyond, or transcending the personality.

But either way, it’s clearly not the master/slave relationship that came before. It’s very different to following orders, and it clashes with the kind of relationship you mentioned that appears elsewhere. Don’t you think that’s a big problem? I do.

[ChristianInNC]

Re: Hey dudes!

Congratulations, Angela! Your "description" has been updated!

It is now 'Unsaved Trash Filthy Scammer'.

I doubt you are a Christian at all, since you lied about your purpose in being here (adding links to your site, all of which have now been deleted). Typical Papist behavior.

Shall I ban you now, or shall I ban you later?

Angela is a papist?
Ban her NOW, Sister! Landover has more than enough papist baloney with Krusty!

[JennyD]

Re: Hey dudes!

P.S. I see my "description" is 'Unsaved Trash Under Investigation'. I beg to differ. I've been a Christian since 1975; 34 years.

Congratulations, Angela! Your "description" has been updated!

It is now 'Unsaved Trash Filthy Scammer'.

I doubt you are a Christian at all, since you lied about your purpose in being here (adding links to your site, all of which have now been deleted). Typical Papist behavior.

Shall I ban you now, or shall I ban you later?

[Wide-Open]

Re: Angela's Introduction

Want to know what I do for a living? I am a Search Engine Optimization expert. I can get websites to the top of Google, even with millions of competing sites. Landover Baptist only has a little over 100,000 competing sites. It should be really simple to get a site like this to Google's number one position for the keywords Landover Baptist.

Bwahaahaa! So you ARE a scammer. And a false Christian to boot.

Lady, you are so fake even your teeth should notice.

[Nobar King]

Re: Angela's Introduction

It should be really simple to get a site like this to Google's number one position for the keywords Landover Baptist.

WOW! I googled Landover Baptist, and guess what the number one result is? LBC! Angela sure works fast! And she did this all for free? I love the internets.

[JennyD]

Re: Angela's Introduction

Well, I think the passage above is saying that. What do you make of Luke 6:27/28? But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

Can you answer my question, or not?

Define the "personal relationship" in which Jesus "speaks" to you, and show me where you find it in the Bible.

[joe707]

Re: Angela's Introduction

Is loving God the same thing as "having a personal relationship" with God?

I think that’s a very good question. I understand your deep reservations about the cult of the personality. The personal relationship, the personal love with a small ‘l’ that doesn’t come close to the power of what you are reading in scripture. But loving with all thy heart and soul and mind can not be an edict; it can not be a commandment. Jesus knows this. He is answering the Pharisee in the language to which he has become accustomed in receiving orders. He is a Pharisee and a lawyer; he wants to hear which law to follow. Jesus tells him, meeting the lawyer at his level of understanding.

But loving is not an order like ‘neither shalt thou steal’. There is a reason why this is the first and great commandment. It is worth thinking about. You can not obey it. Jesus knows this; he knows his audience.

That's the only relationship I've seen described in my years of reading the Bible. If you see others, such as this "brother on equal footing" nonsense so many New Age Christian-Lite types toss out, I'd be more than happy to stand corrected . . .

Well, I think the passage above is saying that. What do you make of Luke 6:27/28? But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

These are difficult things. There is a whole body of love and compassion that you see as a false body; inadequate, watered down. You prefer the burning fire of Jesus. Because of the personality, because you can see that the personal relationship becomes coddled and sentimental, like pampering babies. I agree that there is truth in this.

But they are not commandments as they appear elsewhere. That fact in itself may mean you discount them from literal readings of scripture. If, like the Pharisee, you look for commandments, you will find them. But these things are other relationships and other ways of being. Aren’t they?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Angela's Introduction

Want to know what I do for a living? I am a Search Engine Optimization expert. I can get websites to the top of Google, even with millions of competing sites. Landover Baptist only has a little over 100,000 competing sites. It should be really simple to get a site like this to Google's number one position for the keywords Landover Baptist.

How very loving and Christ-like of you! Threatening to do us harm because we have pointed out the vacuousness of your beliefs must make you feel important. I guess we can see your true colors now.

You should know that there is pending legal action involving that hate site. If you'd like to get involved with that, our team of vicious joo lawyers will be more than happy to oblige.

[JennyD]

Re: Angela's Introduction

The "one true Bible"? You've got to be kidding me. Any version that is in English at all is going to be translated from the original manuscripts.

Keep on playing your games. Seriously. I won't be here. But an infraction for "using the wrong version" is over the top.

Want to know what I do for a living? I am a Search Engine Optimization expert. I can get websites to the top of Google, even with millions of competing sites. Landover Baptist only has a little over 100,000 competing sites. It should be really simple to get a site like this to Google's number one position for the keywords Landover Baptist.

Angela,

We only use the King James Bible.

Here's a wonderful explanation of why. And it's not even on our website, so you don't have to accuse Jack Chick of being unduly influenced by Pastor Ezekiel.

[ChristianInNC]

Re: Angela's Introduction

The "one true Bible"? You've got to be kidding me. Any version that is in English at all is going to be translated from the original manuscripts.

Keep on playing your games. Seriously. I won't be here. But an infraction for "using the wrong version" is over the top.

Want to know what I do for a living? I am a Search Engine Optimization expert. I can get websites to the top of Google, even with millions of competing sites. Landover Baptist only has a little over 100,000 competing sites. It should be really simple to get a site like this to Google's number one position for the keywords Landover Baptist.

You'd be wise to rethink threatening God's People.

His punishment doesn't come with parole!!!

[JennyD]

Re: Angela's Introduction

Don't forget John 15:15

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

Tell me, Angela . . . whom was Jesus addressing when He said this?

The masses?

No. The Apostles. The 12 men He chose to travel the world with Him. He was telling them that they were special; unlike the rest of the world, they were His friends, not His servants and He not their Master.

See what happens when you take verses out of context, Angela? You only get part of the picture. You then interpret it to mean whatever you like.

And I don't think you should be calling other Christians "false". I am a Christian because I believe that Jesus, through the sacrifice of his blood on the cross, is the one and only way to salvation:

So, Angela, if Jesus is the only way to Salvation, you agree with us that those who pray to Mary, or Vishnu, or the Wiccan Lard and Lady, are all condemned to eternal Hellfire, correct?

A while back, I asked you about the doctrine "Rick" puts forth, and you never answered my questions. Are you so busy arguing that you can't respond to serious questions?

[Angela]

Re: Angela's Introduction

The "one true Bible"? You've got to be kidding me. Any version that is in English at all is going to be translated from the original manuscripts.

Keep on playing your games. Seriously. I won't be here. But an infraction for "using the wrong version" is over the top.

Want to know what I do for a living? I am a Search Engine Optimization expert. I can get websites to the top of Google, even with millions of competing sites. Landover Baptist only has a little over 100,000 competing sites. It should be really simple to get a site like this to Google's number one position for the keywords Landover Baptist.