[maxell]

Re: New

My question has been answered, to an extent. Also, from looking around my resources, it is not like I disregarded anything that had negative merit towards marijuana, infact, that is why I came here, to see if there are any. One of the passages i found was :

"God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth.…To you it will be for meat." … And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31)"

There are a couple more, however, those are a little more up to interpretation than this one, which just states all herb bearing seed.

Somehow, you managed to miraculously find the few passages that you managed to manipulate the meaning of to make you think it is good. Funny how you managed not to find any that said it was bad.

Like I said, I came here to find those negative ones.


In this and the other large marijuana related thread (yes, since you mentioned them, I searched and found a couple, and read them), no one has given any reference to the bible about negativity to marijuana. This is strange since in most of your other threads where there is argument (I spent several hours reading your boards before making a username and posting) many people read off countless passages which served their argument. Since i have provided with atleast one passage, and you all none for the negative side, then technically shouldn't you take your own words?:

We do not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to follow because we like them and do not follow the parts we do not like. If you are a True Christian, you take it all.

You many not like it, but since you can not find anything in the bible against marijuana, then shouldn't you have to accept what i have presented, atleast until the point where you find a negative passage about marijuana?

Most of the arguments in the other thread where along the lines of "marijuana makes you a homo, and love satan". But these are YOUR views, and no matter how much you read the bible or how devout you are or how much you love Jesus, if it isn't in the bible, then technically by your standards, it doesn't matter since its only what you think, like other religions beliefs or scientific evidence (example of "if not in bible, it doesn't exist / bad: micro organisms form your guide of scientific conspiracy).

[James Hutchins]

Re: New

It is obvious, you want people to agree with you. We will not.
There is no point in continuing a discussion if you refuse to listen.

READ THE BIBLE, IT IS NOT THAT HARD!!!!

[Nobar King]

Re: New

This is an introduction thread Mr. Maxell, not a debate forum. If you want to tell us what church you go to and what kind of cereal you like, that's fine.

Keep your narco-dogma to the related threads so that the next criminal who comes here doesn't have to search all over the place for your misinformation.

BTW, the subject of this thread is the stupidest subject I've ever seen. Are you captain obvious? Of course you're new. (The next stupidest is 'new here' .)

What's your normal name so we can think of you as something besides this:



Or maybe you'd like that as your avatar?

[maxell]

Re: New

First off, I don't understand why the topic name is such a problem. Yes I'm new. If I were to repeat "Dude!! im new!! and new means that i have never been here before, which means taht this is the first time you would of talked to me", then yes, you should have the liberty to mock me as "Captain Obvious", however, I did not say anything similar to the example above.

Why I am arguing here is because James began talking to me here, and discussing with me here, and the thread I made for this purpose was not being used.

What I am curious about is, well, this entire post:

It is obvious, you want people to agree with you. We will not.
There is no point in continuing a discussion if you refuse to listen.

READ THE BIBLE, IT IS NOT THAT HARD!!!!

How is this a response to what I posted previous? To me, it seems that you are the one who is not listening to what I am saying. I am listening, and all I am hearing is "READ THE BIBLE!" over and over. If you had read and understood what I wrote, your response would be different, or maybe you do not have a proper rebuttal, so instead you tell me to read the bible over and over.

All I ask is proof that marijuana is bad. Not even my sense of proof (which is research and what I would call as facts), no, I am looking for your sense of proof here. Does the bible say that marijuana is wrong, or are you simply making your own opinion of off what you believe to be right, but not what the bible says? Please answer this question with an appropriate answer, and not ignore it and say read the bible. I believe you all to be intelligent people who can form proper responses.

[James Hutchins]

Re: New

You just do not listen.

My first thread to you:

Hi Maxwell! Welcome! I understand you are Christian and think you are fulfilled and that is good. However, you'll be amazed at how much more complete and balanced you will feel after you have read the best book in the world, the JKV1611 Bible. I know a lot of folk who were just like you, they thought they could not be happier and more complete. Every single one has remarked to me and time again how fooled they were. That making the Bible the second best friend in the world (besides God, silly) was the finest thing they did. It has opened their eyes to the real meaning of Christianity. Try it, you'll like it.

The Second:

What is the question (I bet the Bible has the answer!!!)?

The Third:

Well, first off, this question does get asked fairly regulary. And the answer is drugs are bad. No wiggle room, sorry.
For more details, do a search on the forum to see the results of the very same question, it must get asked every week. (<<<means read the Bible)

The Fourth:

..........You need to read and know the ENTIRE Bible before you go off spouting passages..............

The Fifth:

..........Read the ENTIRE KJV1611 Bible cover to cover a few times, then come back............

The Sixth:

It is obvious, you want people to agree with you. We will not.
There is no point in continuing a discussion if you refuse to listen.

READ THE BIBLE, IT IS NOT THAT HARD!!!!

Do you get the hidden meaning? Or are you just too stoned?

[James Hutchins]

Re: New

First off, I don't understand why the topic name is such a problem. Yes I'm new. If I were to repeat "Dude!! im new!! and new means that i have never been here before, which means taht this is the first time you would of talked to me", then yes, you should have the liberty to mock me as "Captain Obvious", however, I did not say anything similar to the example above.

Why I am arguing here is because James began talking to me here, and discussing with me here, and the thread I made for this purpose was not being used.

What I am curious about is, well, this entire post:


How is this a response to what I posted previous? To me, it seems that you are the one who is not listening to what I am saying. I am listening, and all I am hearing is "READ THE BIBLE!" over and over. If you had read and understood what I wrote, your response would be different, or maybe you do not have a proper rebuttal, so instead you tell me to read the bible over and over.

All I ask is proof that marijuana is bad. Not even my sense of proof (which is research and what I would call as facts), no, I am looking for your sense of proof here. Does the bible say that marijuana is wrong, or are you simply making your own opinion of off what you believe to be right, but not what the bible says? Please answer this question with an appropriate answer, and not ignore it and say read the bible. I believe you all to be intelligent people who can form proper responses.

Instead of reading the Bible, you want me to research it for you. What will you be doing while I do your work?

Get off your butt, lift a pinky and put a joule of effort into your life. I am not you mother.

[maxell]

Re: New

haha.

No, I'm not stoned, I have never smoked in my life.

Thankyou, you have shown me the answer I was looking for. You infact do not have any real response to my marijuana topic. I was looking for answers about marijuana, not everything in my life and how it should be changed. So reading the bible would not help me to much at the moment.

But thankyou, you do not have any real argument, so I guess ignoring what i say (remember, how i asked you not to just repeat read the bible and give me a proper argument? No? right, thats because you did not listen) and continue one with "READ THE BIBLE!" is really the only thing you can do.

How i am the one that does not listen is completely beyond me. I listen, and i hear read the bible, and right now i say no thankyou. I understand and take in what you said, and moved on in my first response to you, yet you did not, because to my conclusion, you can not, because there is nothing else you can really say.


Thankyou for being as hospitable as you were until one or two posts ago. This is not sarcasm, I was afraid i would be yelled at from the get go, but instead, i was only yelled at when you were in a corner.

Have a good day.

[maxell]

Re: New

This is a reply to your second reply.

I don't want you to read the bible for me, i was simply wondering if you all, being the knowing Christians that you are, could help me. I guess you are correct in saying that instead of just asking, i should read the bible myself. And chances are, i will probably do that some time in the future.

However, you could of said simply: "No, i do not from the top of my head know any passages relating to marijuana. It is my belief that is is wrong to use." And that would be that.

[James Hutchins]

Re: New

Far from being in a corner. You want to hear what you want to hear. No statement of fact from anyone here is going to sway that, it is obvious from your utter lack of effort. Because I will not do your work for you does not mean I do not know the answer.
If a teacher knows the answer to a test, should they take the test for you or should you study, learn the material and take the test?

After you have taken the test, anyone here would be happy to go over any mistakes and explain where you went wrong.

People like you are what is wrong wqith the world. You want someone else to do your work. You want to sit there and get fat. You expect handouts and dinner on a plate while contributing nothing. It was fairly obvious from your second posting where you are coming from.

Yes, I got a little short with you, I tire of lazy people.

[maxell]

Re: New

You are partly correct. I did ask you to do my work for me. However, i also looked into it, asked many of my religious friends, and they came up with little, so i came here to see if a collective of minds could help me. I do not sit on my butt and wait to get fat, i am interested in a topic, and believed that a person, or group of people could help me.

If i were to be seeking religious enlightenment, then reading the bible would be a great place to start, however, i am looking and interested in the views of YOU, the people who are religious.

Now, i would like to continue this argument, since finally you have stopped simply saying read the bible over and over, and started to actually put across your own personal views, mind you they are attacking me and accusing me of being a bad person, but it is better than where we were from before. I must leave the house to walk my dog, but i will be back, and hopefully we can continue.

[Brother Lazarus]

Re: New

[QUOTE=maxell;366568]Sorry to hear that, I should of done a search before posting, however, I am a supporter of marijuana, like I said in my other post, and I have some quotes from scriptures relating to marijuana and how it is a positive thing. If you wish, I will post them and we can discuss them.[/QUOTE}

No matter what you may think about marijuana, it is against the law. Jesus made it quite clear that we as Christians are to obey secular law.

Your argument is dead in it's tracks. If you had done just a little research on your own, you could have saved yourself and the rest of us a lot of font.

Yours in Christ
Brother Lazarus

[Brother Lazarus]

Re: New

You are partly correct. I did ask you to do my work for me. However, i also looked into it, asked many of my religious friends, and they came up with little, so i came here to see if a collective of minds could help me. I do not sit on my butt and wait to get fat, i am interested in a topic, and believed that a person, or group of people could help me.

If i were to be seeking religious enlightenment, then reading the bible would be a great place to start, however, i am looking and interested in the views of YOU, the people who are religious.

Now, i would like to continue this argument, since finally you have stopped simply saying read the bible over and over, and started to actually put across your own personal views, mind you they are attacking me and accusing me of being a bad person, but it is better than where we were from before. I must leave the house to walk my dog, but i will be back, and hopefully we can continue.

Our views, all of them, come from the A.V. 1611 Bible. Why do you think we keep telling you to read it? If you read it, you'll understand our views.

This is not a debate forum, it is a place to Glorify God. If you want to give us your testimony, by all means do so.

I'm guessing your dog is smarter than you are.

Yours in Christ
Brother Lazarus

[Vavoline Johnson]

Re: New

Hi Maxwell! Welcome! I understand you are Christian and think you are fulfilled and that is good. However, you'll be amazed at how much more complete and balanced you will feel after you have read the best book in the world, the JKV1611 Bible. I know a lot of folk who were just like you, they thought they could not be happier and more complete. Every single one has remarked to me and time again how fooled they were. That making the Bible the second best friend in the world (besides God, silly) was the finest thing they did. It has opened their eyes to the real meaning of Christianity. Try it, you'll like it.

Mr James has some good advice to you nooblies. I myself would be readin the JKV1611 iffen it weren't so darned complicated to understand. But anyways, welcome, you is in the right place fo salvation.

[James Hutchins]

Re: New

Mr James has some good advice to you nooblies. I myself would be readin the JKV1611 iffen it weren't so darned complicated to understand. But anyways, welcome, you is in the right place fo salvation.

Missus Vavoline, we have been thinking about getting you the complete KJV1611 on cassette tape, spoken by a pastor who's voice sounds almost just like Gods!

PM me your credit card info and I'll get you started on the series.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: New

My question has been answered, to an extent. Also, from looking around my resources, it is not like I disregarded anything that had negative merit towards marijuana, infact, that is why I came here, to see if there are any. One of the passages i found was :

"God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth.…To you it will be for meat." … And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31)"

There are a couple more, however, those are a little more up to interpretation than this one, which just states all herb bearing seed.

That is so ridiculous I do not even know where to begin. First, let's see the disputed verses in full.

Genesis 1: 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


God says that every kind of plant grows in that garden, then goes on to specify that they can eat from the fruit of every tree there. "Meat" in Old English meant any kind of food. Nowhere is this suggesting that smoking marijuana is alright. First of, marijuana is not a tree that bears fruit that you can eat. God does not mention anything about smoking and getting high here. As for God saying everything He made was good. Yes, God made many, many plants and fruits which are poisonous to human consumption. This falls under the category God saw as good. Does this mean we should all go eating poisonous plants?

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/marijuana.html

Is It Okay for Christians to Use Marijuana and Other Drugs?
by Rich Deem

Introduction

A number of young Christians these days seem to use marijuana and other recreational drugs. Some of them write to ask if this kind of behavior is okay for a Christian to engage in. If you are over 35 years old, you are probably thinking "that's a no-brainer." However, given the state of teaching in today's Christian churches, for many this question has never been answered adequately. This page answers the question from what the Bible says. Another page examines medical aspects of marijuana use.
Bible verses about marijuana

THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK

Okay, so there are no verses that talk directly about marijuana. Is that surprising? The only smoking that was going on at the time the Bible was written was caused by burning wood, houses, sacrifices, and ultimately, people (at the judgment). So, smoking of cigarettes and marijuana are not mentioned in the Bible.
Who is a Christian

At this point, we need to back up a little to examine the question from a more fundamental perspective. We originally asked if it was okay for a Christian to use marijuana and other drugs. The question we need to ask first is "Who is a Christian?" Many young people believe they are Christians because their parents are Christians or they aren't Jewish, so they must be Christians.
Aren't you a Christian if you go to church and at some point went up front in response to an alter call? Jesus said that people are Christians if they believe in Him.1 Jesus also indicated that those who believed would hear His voice and follow Him.2 Part of the process of following Jesus is to repent. Repentance is a fancy Christian word that means to turn from one's sins and go in the opposite direction (righteousness). Jesus said that those who do not repent will perish.3 Jesus also indicated what kind of commitment one should make to be considered His disciple:

Then He [Jesus] said to them all: "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for Me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? (Luke 9:23-25)

So, Jesus made it quite clear that a casual confession of "faith" isn't going to cut it. One who really believes in Jesus will follow Him as their ultimate purpose in life. Now that we have a clear understanding of who is a Christian, we can go back to the original question.
The Bible's take on other mind-altering drugs

Although the Bible does not address marijuana directly, it does discuss other mind-altering drugs. Specifically, the Bible addresses the use of drugs in the book of Galatians:

Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

So, where are the drugs mentioned in this verse? Actually, the word translated "sorcery" is the Greek word pharmakeia,4 from which we get the English word "pharmacy." The primary meaning is "the use or the administering of drugs" (usually associated with sorcery or idolatry). Since this verse comes from a list of things that if practiced would preclude one from heaven, this should be a reasonably strong suggestion that the Christian should not practice drug use. In addition, the book of Revelation lists drug use as one of the things for which the unrepentant will suffer the wrath of God.5
The Bible has a lot to say about alcohol. At the time, there was no hard (distilled) liquor, just wine and beer (which was more diluted at that time then it is now). Even so, the Bible has much to say about people who used wine to get drunk. One was Lot, who got drunk and slept with his daughters.6 Others sold girls to get wine to get drunk.7 The Bible warns about the bad effects of getting drunk - seeing strange sights and being confused, saying stupid things, making poor decisions, vomiting, getting involved in fights, and losing one's wealth.8 We are warned not to join with those people.9 The consequences of such behavior is judgment.10 Jesus Himself used two examples of those who will be drunk when God comes to judge the world.11 God's judgment of such behavior does not paint a pretty picture. The New Testament condemns drunkenness12 and warns that those who engage in that behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God (i.e., heaven).13
The Old Testament warns the priests not to go into God's house drunk, or they will die.14 In the New Testament, those who serve in the body of Christ are not to be addicted to wine or any other sordid thing.15 Even those who do not directly serve in the church are warned not to be addicted to wine.16 Finally, the New Testament commands us to not get drunk, but be filled with the Spirit of God:

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. (Ephesians 5:18)

Does marijuana get one intoxicated? Even proponents of marijuana usage encourage users never to drive a motor vehicle while using marijuana.17 Why is this? Because when one use marijuana, one is legally intoxicated and incapable of clear thinking and reasonable reactions. Being intoxicated is clearly condemned in scripture. So, if one uses drugs or anything else to escape and get high, or is addicted to these substances, it is against the commands of scripture and inappropriate for Christian participation.
Breaking the law?

Besides the moral question, there is the legal question. Christians are commanded by the scriptures to be in subjection to governing authorities and submit to every human institution.18

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. (Romans 13:1-2)

The only exception to this command would be if those in authority directly contradicted the commands of God.19 Since smoking marijuana was never a command of God, Christians should not smoke marijuana where doing so is illegal.
What about freedom in Christ?

We do have freedom in Christ, but that freedom is not to be used to sin:

• For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. (Galatians 5:13)
• Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. (1 Peter 2:16)

The freedom of Christ is freedom to follow Him in service to others. We are not to use the law as an excuse for immorality (e.g., "I can't help that person because it is the Sabbath"20). Likewise, we are not to allow things (e.g., drugs) to bring us under their control:

• "Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything. (1 Corinthians 6:12)
• For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. (2 Peter 2:18-19)

We are not to be slaves of sin, engaging in fleshly desires and lusts, but we are to serve the living God.

Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body that you should obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. (Romans 6:11-13)

There are many who call themselves Christian, but basically serve their own desires. God will not be deceived by those who play the Christianity game. Jesus said that you will know them by their love for one another,21 and not love of self.22
Seek first the kingdom...

Ultimately, the most important principle in the Christian life is to do what Jesus told us to do. When Jesus was asked what was the most important commandment, he answered:

And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' This is the great and foremost commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38)

Obviously, smoking marijuana does nothing to fulfill this most important commandment. Along the same lines, Jesus said that people should seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.23 However, these days, it seems that many "Christians" seek first the kingdom of self and its attendant pleasures. The scriptures predicted as much when the apostle Paul wrote to Timothy:

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

Jesus indicated that people would respond in several ways to the gospel message. In one of His parables, He indicated that there were different kinds of soils. One of the soils was filled with thorns and weeds, which choked out the ability of the crop to produce fruit. The reason why these people produced no spiritual fruit is because they were more concerned with the "worries and riches and pleasures of this life"24 than with the kingdom of God. There are many other verses25 in the Bible that condemn those who seek pleasure first instead of God's kingdom.
Conclusion

The argument has been made that everything God created is good, and that this includes hemp. Everything God created is good,26 but all these good things can be turned into evil. Sexual relations are good within marriage,27 but adultery is evil.28 It's all sex, which was created by God for good, but not all that men do with it is good. Poisonous mushrooms are good for breaking down dead wood, but bad for eating. Hemp is good for making rope, but bad for smoking. So, now you know. Do what's right!

for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking [and smoking pot], but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. (Romans 14:17)