[Meek and Humble]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

Oh, my job brings stress usually but my coworkers are great. They are my primary family. Bill Gates isn't the richest man but he is up there. Also, Gates is no longer part of Microsoft and makes no decisions within the company. He is an investor and also does not represent the employees' ideals and beliefs within.

Yes, I do create images which are often false but my department doesn't offer products to the general consumers. Not yet anyways. I only work with the Surface, now being being merged with the Courier due to budget cuts. It is stress work. But thats neither here nor there.

I've been facing several problems but it was my coworkers that suggested I look to the Bible for answers. So 3 months ago, I became involved with the Seattle First Baptist Church, following my friends. I haven't found any answers yet and I do not believe I have the right to be called a Christian because I don't quite understand things yet.

Well, the first thing you need to understand is that you don't get to decide whether you are a Christian or not. God does that. We have no free will. If He loves you, He will bestow His grace upon you and you will be full of the fruits of the Holy Spirit and never sin again, and if He doesn't (which is the case for most of the world), He will harden your heart and make you have a reprobate mind, so He can punish you and thus reveal His glory.

You should be wary, because the majority of the "Christians" in this world are liars who do not follow the Bible. You must remember "TULIP" - five points made very clear in the Bible.

Here are some good links:

http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

http://www.essortment.com/all/fivepointsofc_puq.htm

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html

http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/subcats.asp?id=1|5

http://www.theopedia.com/TULIP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvQuvglX-fY

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceL..._of_Calvinism/

[Noah Dint]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

I've been facing several problems but it was my coworkers that suggested I look to the Bible for answers.

Tell us of your problems son. The Lord our God works in mysterious and amazing ways. What's on your troubled heart?

-ND

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

Total Depravity - the teaching that, as a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God or choose to accept salvation as it is freely offered.

Relevant Scripture:

Genesis 6:5: "The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Job 15:14: What is man, that he can be pure? Or he who is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?

15 Behold, God puts no trust in his holy ones, and the heavens are not pure in his sight; how much less one who is abominable and corrupt, a man who drinks injustice like water!

Psalms 58:3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies."

Jeremiah 13:23: (NIV): "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil."

John 3:19: "And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil."

1 Corinthians 2:14: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Psalms 51:5: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Isaiah 64:8 "But now, O LORD, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand."

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

Unconditional Election - the Calvinist teaching that before God created the world, he chose to save some people according to his own purposes and apart from any conditions related to those persons.

Relevant Scripture:

John 15:16: "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

Romans 9:15-16: "For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

Ephesians 1:11: "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,"

2 Timothy 1:9: "who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,"

Ephesians 1:4-5: "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,"

Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification [by the Spirit] and belief in the truth."

Philippians 1:29: "For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake"

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

Limited Atonement - states that Jesus Christ's substitutionary atonement on the cross is limited in scope to those who are predestined unto salvation and its primary benefits are not given to all of humanity but rather just believers.

Relevant Scripture:

The classic Bible passage cited to prove a limited extent to the atonement is the tenth chapter of the Gospel of John in which Jesus uses Ancient Near Eastern shepherding practices as a metaphor for his relationship to his followers. A shepherd of those times would call his sheep from a mix of flocks, and his sheep would hearken to his voice and follow, while the sheep of other flocks would ignore any but their own shepherd's voice (John 10:1-5). In that context, Jesus says, "I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,...and I lay down my life for the sheep" (vv. 14-15, ESV, emphasis added), and he tells the Pharisees that they "do not believe because [they] are not part of [his] flock" (v. 26). He continues, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand" (vv. 27f). Since Calvinists and nearly all Christians believe that not all have eternal life with God, Calvinists conclude that there are only two possibilities: either Jesus was wrong in saying that he would lose none of his sheep (a conclusion they reject), or Jesus must not have laid down his life for everyone, as they understand John 10 to imply. Formally, the Calvinist position can be expressed this way:

1. Jesus lays down his life for the sheep. (John 10:14-15)

2. Jesus will lose none of his sheep. (John 10:28)

3. Many people will not receive eternal life. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Therefore, Jesus did not die for everyone, but only for those whom the Father purposed to save.

Additionally, in the high priestly prayer, Jesus prays for the protection and sanctification of those who believed in him, and he explicitly excludes praying for all: "I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours" (John 17:9b). St. Paul instructs the elders in Ephesus "to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:28, NAS, and he says in his letter to the same church that "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Ephesians 5:25, ESV, emphasis added). Likewise, Jesus foreshadows that he will lay down his life "for his friends" (John 15:13; compare 10:15), and an angel tells Jesus' earthly father Joseph that he "will save His people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21). Calvinists believe that these passages demonstrate that Jesus died for the church (that is, the elect) only.

[Lindsay the Heathen]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

How do you feel about your job? This is somehing you may wish to reconsider.

Can you guess who spoke the following words? "Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There's a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning."

That's right. Your boss, Bill Gates (Bill Hates, really) ... the richest man in the world.

Secondly, it should also be noted that the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation squanders billions of dollars in India instead of in the USA. As far as I can tell, they spend next to nothing on missionary work or spreading God's Word. (big surprise there)

So in your job you are forced to create bordeline false images (by definition) in people's minds of the product you're trying to sell to encourage people to give you their hard-earned dollars so that will be used for atheist purposes.

Do you see that there's a bit of a problem here in God's eyes? Your heart seems to be in the right place, but your works...

I would just like to point out that Bill Gates is no longer the wealthiest man in the world.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

Irresistible Grace - teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom He has determined to save (the elect) and, in God's timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to faith in Christ.

Relevant Scripture:

The statement of St. Paul is said to confirm that those whom God effectually calls necessarily come to full salvation: "(T)hose whom (God) predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified" (Romans 8:28,30), but it is especially several verses from the sixth chapter of the Gospel of John, which contains a record of Jesus' teaching on humanity's abilities and God's activities in salvation, that serves as the central proof text for the Calvinist doctrine (all quotes from the ESV):

• 6:37,39: "All that the Father gives me will come to me.... And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given me, but raise it up on the last day."

• 6:44–45: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.... Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me."

• 6:65: "(N)o one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Hello. This is Thomas.

Perserverance of the Saints - is a Christian teaching taught in some branches of Protestantism which teaches that none who are truly saved can be condemned for their sins or finally fall away from the faith. (a.k.a. Once Saved, Always Saved)

Relevant Scripture:

John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

Romans 8:35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Philippians 1:6: being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete [it] until the day of Jesus Christ;

Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 John 5:11-13: And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Psalms 37:28: For the LORD loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.