Luke Warm is here

[Luke Warm]

I think that some parts of the bible must be added to in order to stay relevant in this century. For a start, there are many inventions simply not mentioned. Also, we now say "man" when we mean mankind and mankind implies men, women, children, old and young people.
When we rewrite it, we should have a committee rather than one or two individuals.
It should clarify the following in a non-sexist way:
If a man steals another man's possession does he marry the previous owner?
If a man gets into another man's new car does he marry the previous owner or become the current owner?
If a man grafittis a train does he marry the train driver or the governor?

Does he have to pay money? Does he have to enjoy it?
What if he does truly regret getting into the new car?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Welcome to God's favorite forum. Please tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

If you'd like to find out more about Landover Baptist Church, please read THIS thread created especially for new posters.

If you have a question, use the "search" function before posting it. Most likely it is being discussed somewhere on this Godly forum. Please don't waste God's precious bandwidth.

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Your rights on this forum are listed HERE. If you feel that any of these rights have been violated, please don't hesitate to contact a Pastor at once.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Hello, Luke Warm. Please don't make Jesus spew you out of His mouth.

What makes you think the Word of God should change? The Bible says it shouldn't.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

[Luke Warm]

Re: Luke Warm is here

First (or second) post.
Hello and I hope my first words are as wise as you would expect from first-time poster. A church will always welcome a stranger and my questions may seem a little odd.
I believe the bible was accurate as a law book and a template for a way of life many centuries ago; before computers, chest paddles and chronic obesity.
Can we change it? Was there a predecessor? I would like to know.

[Jedediah]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Son, the Holy Bible (KJV 1611) is perfect as it is and needs no updating or modification. Indeed, to do so would condemn one's soul to the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The onus is not on the LORD to adapt His Word to the perversity of modern men and their false doctrines so that the Word remains "relevant." The Word of God is relevant whether you like it or not. It does not matter what I want or what you want; all that matters is what He has laid forth for us to live by, as recorded in the KJV 1611.

Rather, it behooves all who would accept His gift of eternal life to turn away from their wicked ways and live by the Word as given. The LORD has already given us a perfect Bible, and it is ridiculous to think that we can improve on it by taking out the parts we don't like and adding a bunch of feel-good "everyone goes to Heaven" absurdities.

God has always given His Word to one people with one goal - to strengthen their own faith and to promulgate the Word. Things had changed quite a bit since the time of Jesus, and God needed a perfect vessel to preserve the Word until the end times. By the late sixteenth century, the English language had achieved a state of such excellence that He chose English people at the time to record His perfect Bible in their language. This is the origin of the KJV 1611 Bible. Since that time, England had spent a period of time as the world's dominant power. Today, America is the world's dominant power.

It seems to me that the LORD knew what He was doing when he created the KJV 1611 Bible. For you to suggest that you know better than your Creator is one of the most uppity and absurd things I have ever heard.

I hope that you will abandon your heresies and accept Jesus as your personal LORD and Savior - without making suggestions on how He can improve His Message.

[Luke Warm]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

So don't add to it, expand on it. It sound contradictory but...
If you could add a glossary that says: When the word sheep is mentioned, it includes merinos, dorpers, cross-breeds.
When the bible says walk, it means convey ones self by bike, car, plane rocket etc.
When it says turn the other cheek, it means complain, sue and if not successful, forgive so that you don't loose sleep.
Etc.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Son, what you believe is irrelevant.

2 Peter 1:20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The Bible was written and given to us by God so that we would know exactly what to believe. He doesn't want to leave it up to our crazy human imagination! That's where Raelians came from, and Scientologists.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Now please answer my questions. What church do you attend? How old are you? How did you come to find Jesus?

[Luke Warm]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Today, America is the world's dominant power.

We need a rewrite then. In American.

[Luke Warm]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Now please answer my questions. What church do you attend? How old are you? How did you come to find Jesus?

I am a visitor here. I am searching for a church - in truth; that I may find a way to believe.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Luke Warm is here

I am a visitor here. I am searching for a church - in truth; that I may find a way to believe.

Please tell us about yourself. How old are you? What experience have you had with Christianity?

This is a Christian forum.

[Luke Warm]

Re: Luke Warm is here

I am 45. I am a Christened Church of England Christian.
I spent 6 years at a Catholic all-boys school for my senior schooling.
I have no malice or ill-intentions toward any church but I want to be assured that there is a relevant place for the church, for God and for the way we interpret our written "procedures"
I am very scientifically oriented and walk a fine line between full belief and non-belief.

[Jedediah]

Re: Luke Warm is here

The KJV 1611 is completely understandable to literate Americans.

That there are archaic words in the Bible is very true. An archaic word is a word which is no longer used in every day speech and has been replaced by another. A good example of an archaic word is found in I Corinthians 10:25:

Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake

The word "shambles" is archaic. It has been replaced in common speech with the word "market place." Indeed, we can be certain that "shambles" was a much more accurate description of the ancient market place (and many around the world today in countries that do not accept Christ). It has, none the less, passed from common use.

Well then, shouldn't we publish a new translation which removes "shambles" and inserts the more common "market place"?

NO!!

What we should do is turn to the Bible - our final authority in all matters of faith and practice - and see what the Bible practice is concerning archaic words. For surely we believers in a perfect Bible will want to follow the Bible's practice concerning archaic words.

In searching the Scripture, we find the Bible practice for handling archaic words in I Samuel 9:1-11:

Now there was a man of Benjamin, whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bechorath, the son of Aphiah, a Benjamite, a mighty man of power.
And he had a son, whose name was Saul, a choice young man, and a goodly: and there was not among the children of Israel a goodlier person than he: from his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people.
And the asses of Kish Saul's father were lost. And Kish said to Saul his son, Take now one of the servants with thee, and arise, go seek the asses.
And he passed through mount Ephraim, and passed through the land of Shalisha, but they found them not: then they passed through the land of Shalim, and there they were not: and he passed through the land of the Benjamites, but they found them not.
And when they were come to the land of Zuph, Saul said to his servant that was with him, Come, and let us return; lest my father leave caring for the asses, and take thought for us.
And he said unto him, Behold now, there is in this city a man of God, and he is an honourable man; all that he saith cometh surely to pass: now let us go thither; peradventure he can shew us our way that we should go.
Then said Saul to his servant, But, behold, if we go, what shall we bring the man? for the bread is spent in our vessels, and there is not a present to bring to the man of God: what have we?
And the servant answered Saul again, and said, Behold, I have here at hand the fourth part of a shekel of silver: that will I give to the man of God, to tell us our way.
(Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)
Then said Saul to his servant, Well said; come, let us go. So they went unto the city where the man of God was.
And as they went up the hill to the city, they found young maidens going out to draw water, and said unto them, Is the seer here?

Here, in the first eleven verses of I Samuel 9, we are not only confronted with an archaic word, but with the Bible practice for handling it.

We find Saul and one of his father's servants searching for the asses that had run off (I Samuel 9:1-5).They decide to go to see Samuel the seer and enlist his help in finding the asses (verses 6-8).

In verse 11, we are going to run into an archaic word. But, before we do, God puts a parenthesis in the narrative (verse 9) to tell us about it. Notice that verse 9 states that "he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer." Thus, we see that between the time that this event took place and the time that the incident was divinely recorded the word "Seer" had passed from common use to be replaced with "Prophet." "Seer" was now archaic.

BUT, look carefully at verse 11 where the archaic word appeared:

And as they went up the hill to the city, they found young maidens going out to draw water, and said unto them, Is the seer here?

Please note that the verse retains the outdated word "seer." It does not say "Is the prophet here?"

Thus we see that God Himself through the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit used verse 9 to explain the upcoming archaic word but did not change the holy text!

So we see that, the Bible practice for handling situations such as we find in I Corinthians 10:25 when preaching is to tell the congregation something to the effect that "What beforetime was called 'shambles' is now called 'market place"'. But we should leave the archaic word in the text. This is what God did! Surely we sinners are not going to come up with a better method for handling archaic words than God has.

So, the answer to the question is:
Yes, there are archaic words in the Bible but No we do not need a modem translation to eliminate them. God didn't change His Book, He certainly does not want us doing it.

So are you going to tell us about yourself now and how you came to walk with Christ, or must I continue to rebuke you and reprove your ridiculous notions?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Well it sounds to me like you've never even set foot in an actual Christian church. No wonder you have such a bad attitude about God.

Maybe you should take a look at THIS thread.

[exMormon]

Re: Luke Warm is here

Why just "luke warm"? Why not be "on fire" for Jesus? Being a "luke warm" Christian won't get you into Heaven.

[Luke Warm]

Re: Luke Warm is here

So, ...I was just thinking of my school days...
I was seated in the Church, lit by candles providing light by a chemical reaction,
Listening to music played using a cd player, powered by electricity, read from digital sequence of 1's and 0's,
singing to text printed using a bubble jet printer,
to a musical scale defined in metric terms, (I hope I was on-key),
I listened to the projected voice of a priest amplified using semiconductors in a PA system again powered by electricity.
And that is where I decided I wanted to become a twice-damned scientist in the field of chemistry.
I think the Church has introduced alchemy before my time. Is it mentioned?