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Re: hi everyone

I'm going to do this in multiple posts. 1 John 1:8 is prior to salvation. Why would John write that we are all sinners if he goes on later to write in his epistle concerning both works and perfection the following.

I believe that you are incorrect, 1 John 1:8 refers to everybody, there is no indication in the chapter that it refers to prior salvation.As for 1 John 3, it says that those who are "in" christ do not sin because their sins have already been forgiven.

I do not look at women with lust ever. I have a great wife who keeps me very satisfied.

Hard to believe that.

Money, I don't care about. I make enough as an associate Pastor and the church provides me a very nice apartment. I know that it is more difficult for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to get to Heaven.

As far as food goes, it's a basic human need. God told us to eat, silly.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

That is what god said in genesis 1:29, when adam and eve had a pure heart and was sinless.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Yes, and the reward is not heaven, it is the "treasures" in heaven.

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Let's quote the verse before that to get the context.

" 20And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." (Luke 8:20-21 ESV)[/quote]


Jesus said just those people who wanted to see jesus hear the word of god and do it. He did not say that hearing the word of god and not doing it means that you cannot go to heaven. He did not refer to everybody either.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Don't forget to include the verse before 5:29 to get the context.

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." John 5:28-29

This refers to those who are not speaking "evil" in their hearts about the holy spirit and will be in the "grave", and those people would go before judgement in revelations. This is why hell/death/sea merges into the lake of fire. This verse doesn't apply to believers, only those who are "dead" or "in the grave."

Romans 2:5-6 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Still refers to those who aren't speaking evil of the holy spirit in their hearts. It does not refer to believers or those that reject christ.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Now read Romans 3:20, Romans 3:28, Titus 3:5

When you read chapter 2 of james, you'll understand that he refers to those who say that they are believers when in reality they are not. A person who truly believes typically produces results. He is also speaking about justification before humans, not god.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. (James 2:18)

[Levi Jones]

Re: hi everyone

I believe that you are incorrect, 1 John 1:8 refers to everybody, there is no indication in the chapter that it refers to prior salvation.As for 1 John 3, it says that those who are "in" christ do not sin because their sins have already been forgiven.

Friend, you simply don't have my true understanding of the Bible. Look at 1 John 1 later in the chapter. This is where the prior sins are purified and we are made perfect in Jesus.

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hard to believe that.

Believe what you want, friend. I am positively brimming with the Holy Spirit and fully wearing the Armor of God always.

That is what god said in genesis 1:29, when adam and eve had a pure heart and was sinless.

I suppose you'll want a NT reference then?

Acts 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

Let's quote the verse before that to get the context.

" 20And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." (Luke 8:20-21 ESV)

By all means, let's do precisely that. How does that change the context of being a doer of the Word instead of being a mere follower? The verse you quoted is also a wonderful warning as to why we should not call the non-doers of the Word brother.

Thank you so much for bringing that one up!

Jesus said just those people who wanted to see jesus hear the word of god and do it. He did not say that hearing the word of god and not doing it means that you cannot go to heaven. He did not refer to everybody either.

What sort of mental gymnastics do you have to put yourself through to come to that conclusion, when I clearly proved using the Word that the opposite was true?

Don't forget to include the verse before 5:29 to get the context.

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." John 5:28-29

Thank you again for making my point for me. I'm starting to like you.

This refers to those who are not speaking "evil" in their hearts about the holy spirit and will be in the "grave", and those people would go before judgement in revelations. This is why hell/death/sea merges into the lake of fire. This verse doesn't apply to believers, only those who are "dead" or "in the grave."

I see.

Romans 2:5-6 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Does not mean what it means.. Have you ever bothered reading the latter verses in the same chapter?

13For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Obviously, Paul is not actually claiming to be above Christ. He is simply calling out the pharisees, right?

[replaced]

Re: hi everyone

Friend, you simply don't have my true understanding of the Bible. Look at 1 John 1 later in the chapter. This is where the prior sins are purified and we are made perfect in Jesus.

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Believers "confess" sins. The holy spirit automatically convicts you so that you repent.


I suppose you'll want a NT reference then?

Acts 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

You forgot to quote acts 11:5-6, which helps give proper intrepetation of the verse.

"I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me. 6Looking at it closely, I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air."

The voice did not tell peter to slay and eat real animals/food. If you read the entire chapter, the spirit makes no distinction between the "animals."

By all means, let's do precisely that. How does that change the context of being a doer of the Word instead of being a mere follower? The verse you quoted is also a wonderful warning as to why we should not call the non-doers of the Word brother.

Thank you so much for bringing that one up!

Incorrect, if you read the entire chapter you'd understand that it's jesus's reply that is directed for the mother and brother.

What sort of mental gymnastics do you have to put yourself through to come to that conclusion, when I clearly proved using the Word that the opposite was true?

The bible clearly says that faith without any works is the path to heaven. Not a single verse says that faith plus works is needed to go to heaven. If you see any verse that says works plus faith, you need to read the entire chapter to get the proper interpretation of the verse.

Thank you again for making my point for me. I'm starting to like you.

I don't think I've made the point for you. John 5:28-29 refers to those who are "dead" and will be before god on the white throne in revelations. It does not refer those who are believers. Simply read more of the chapter instead of one verse!

"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."
John 5:25

Romans 2:5-6 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Does not mean what it means.. Have you ever bothered reading the latter verses in the same chapter?


Obviously, Paul is not actually claiming to be above Christ. He is simply calling out the pharisees, right?

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:4

Nobody has kept the law except for jesus. Romans 2 just describes the process and explains that god renders every man according to his deeds. Nobody is a "doer" of the law since everybody who is not "jesus" sins or has an evil heart.

[Levi Jones]

Re: hi everyone

Believers "confess" sins. The holy spirit automatically convicts you so that you repent.

Then why does the Bible repeatedly say you will be judged by what you have done?

You forgot to quote acts 11:5-6, which helps give proper intrepetation of the verse.

"I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me. 6Looking at it closely, I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air."

The voice did not tell peter to slay and eat real animals/food. If you read the entire chapter, the spirit makes no distinction between the "animals."

Friend, you have some strange ideas about what is written in black and white in plain English. God is telling Peter in his vision that he can eat whatever type of food he wants to.

Incorrect, if you read the entire chapter you'd understand that it's jesus's reply that is directed for the mother and brother.

Does it hurt to be as ignorant as you are of the Word or is it truly bliss? Jesus is telling the people that Mary and his brothers are not truly His brothers. The people who do the will of the Father are His brothers and sisters. Here is the same story in Matthew. Hopefully, this will clear it up for you.

Matthew 12:47-50 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

The bible clearly says that faith without any works is the path to heaven. Not a single verse says that faith plus works is needed to go to heaven. If you see any verse that says works plus faith, you need to read the entire chapter to get the proper interpretation of the verse.

I have read the verses in context. You are the one who tries to twist them using completely unrelated verses that you suddenly claim support your argument.
I can tell you the Bible is not saying just believe and everything will be alright. God requires hard works and sacrifice.

I don't think I've made the point for you. John 5:28-29 refers to those who are "dead" and will be before god on the white throne in revelations. It does not refer those who are believers. Simply read more of the chapter instead of one verse!

"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."
John 5:25

And what will they be judged by? Oh, that's right, whether they have done good or evil.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:4

Nobody has kept the law except for jesus.

Luke 1:5-6 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Psalms 18:20-24 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God.
For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me.
I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity.
Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.