I am thinking about joining this site..

[Gods-Right-hand]

I would just like to judge your reasoning abilities before I decide to to stick around.

A truly logical minded intelligent Christian would be able to refute this statement very quickly.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

lets see how you all do, I might decide to stay if you can prove your worth.

[WinnerNotSinner]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

What are you talking about? You want US to prove our worth to you?

Son, you are in deep trouble, you need to get right with Jesus or get OUT!

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

Wandering into our forums and immediately making demands, are we?

The Problem of Evil

The Problem of Evil, or the Epicurean dilemma, is a question about how to explain the existence of evil if God is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient. A version of the logical proof is as follows:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3. A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There are many different ways to respond to this argument, and I believe if we take a look at some of those responses we can find that it really isn't a dilemma at all. Evil DOES exist, but it doesn't negate the fact that God is a perfect being.

The first response to this is that we have free will. I am going to be rather brief here because I will be addressing this to answer your next question, but scripture definitely backs up the fact that humans have free will. One of the consequences, however, of having free will is that it is possible to abuse that free will. God could have certainly created a world filled with organic robots that could only do "good", but one of the things that defines goodness is that we are not forced to do things that are good.

Think of it this way. Many people believe giving money to a charity is a morally good action. They would commend you for it. But imagine somebody is holding a gun to your head and forces you to give money to a charity. The action of giving money to a charity has now ceased to be morally good because you simply had no choice in the matter (assuming you didn't want to get shot in the head). Actions are only morally good if we have the choice to do things that are morally bad. It is my belief that any suffering and evil people cause absolutely pales in comparison to the value of the gift of free will.

Next, it is only possible for certain kinds of goodness to exist because of the existence of evil in the world. We can only be brave if there is something to fear, we can only be compassionate if there is suffering, and we can only make sacrifices for others if there are situations when others are in need. Take, for example, these verses from the Bible:

"Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee." Deuteronomy 31:6

"Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:" 1 Peter 3:8

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1 Timothy 5:8

It would be impossible to be any of these things if there didn't exist conditions in the world that required us to act this way.

So we can see that there are justifications for evil existing. It is through the existence of evil that we are better able to use the gift of free will God gave us and to hollow His commandments better. Though there is suffering that exists in the world that sometimes we cannot explain, it in no way detracts from the absolute perfection of God because it is used to serve His purpose. Let me leave you with a few more verses that, I hope, illustrate my point:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" Amos 3:6

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?" Lamentations 3:38

[Gods-Right-hand]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

What are you talking about? You want US to prove our worth to you?

Son, you are in deep trouble, you need to get right with Jesus or get OUT!

Jesus is all about proving worth, thats what this life is all about is it not?

[WinnerNotSinner]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

Jesus is all about proving worth, thats what this life is all about is it not?

Yes, Jesus loves me already.

Why are you such a sceptic? Why do you hate Jesus?

[Gods-Right-hand]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

Wandering into our forums and immediately making demands, are we?

All I want to know is rather or not your able to hold a real discussion or if you all just mindless drones like on many of the Christian forums.

I love discussing Christian philosophy but im sick and tied of my fellow Christian not thinking for them selves.

[WinnerNotSinner]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

All I want to know is rather or not your able to hold a real discussion or if you all just mindless drones like on many of the Christian forums.

I love discussing Christian philosophy but im sick and tied of my fellow Christian not thinking for them selves.

Son, the Bible tells us how to act in every situation, we don't need to think for ourselves. Oh, but let me guess, you know better than the LORD? Right?

How arrogant are you!?

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

I love discussing Christian philosophy but im sick and tied of my fellow Christian not thinking for them selves.

And I am sick of arrogant brats polluting our forum with ignorance and demonstrating their utter lack of knowing how to use a simple search function!

Since you are too lazy and too stupid for that, I did it for you.

Here Sister Janine Walker answers the question you copied and pasted somewhere on the Internet without actually understanding it. I don't expect you to be smart enough to understand her answer:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=671097

[Gods-Right-hand]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

Yes, Jesus loves me already.

Why are you such a sceptic? Why do you hate Jesus?

You got me all wrong, I am a devoted Christian, I have been all my life, Jesus is my lord as savor and I accept him fully.

I believe god gave us such a strong mind so we can solve problem the one I posted.



And to whomever reported me, that line was not meant to be insulting, you just took it that way.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

Why did you ignore my response?

[James Hutchins]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

I would just like to judge your reasoning abilities before I decide to to stick around.

A truly logical minded intelligent Christian would be able to refute this statement very quickly.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

lets see how you all do, I might decide to stay if you can prove your worth.

Well, for starters, you already joined out site. Because you seem to have a weak, if any, grasp on logic, I then have to suspect any question you may have, based on the source.

Simple answer to your question, one word
Yes
God can do what ever He wants. He can make a mountain He cannot move, then he can get rid of it. He can do anything or He can nothing.


By the way, I have seen that lame copy and pasted 'question' a million times. It is the typical statement used by a 2nd year philosophy major at a community college used to make cheerleaders think he is smart and deep. Here you look shallow and moronic. Sorry, not meant as an insult but rather as a fact.

[Bible Student]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

Well, for starters, you already joined out site. Because you seem to have a weak, if any, grasp on logic, I then have to suspect any question you may have, based on the source.

Simple answer to your question, one word
Yes
God can do what ever He wants. He can make a mountain He cannot move, then he can get rid of it. He can do anything or He can nothing.


By the way, I have seen that lame copy and pasted 'question' a million times. It is the typical statement used by a 2nd year philosophy major at a community college used to make cheerleaders think he is smart and deep. Here you look shallow and moronic. Sorry, not meant as an insult but rather as a fact.

I think he saw that cheerleader who signed up a few days ago and tried to impress her.

[James Hutchins]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

I think he saw that cheerleader who signed up a few days ago and tried to impress her.

Kids and their whore moans, what can we do but try to get them to actually read the Bible, then all their silly questions would be answered.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: I am thinking about joining this site..

I would just like to judge your reasoning abilities before I decide to to stick around.

A truly logical minded intelligent Christian would be able to refute this statement very quickly.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

lets see how you all do, I might decide to stay if you can prove your worth.

Gee, nobody's cut and pasted THAT here before. Well, not today, anyway.

Why did you ignore Sister Lycia's response? Was it TL? You DR?

You mistake the God of the Bible with the omnibenevolent (sorry, that's a big word. "All-loving") "god" of popular imagination, some sort of cosmic Santa Claus.

God declares Himself the source of both good AND evil:

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

He also makes this promise, friend:

Joshua 23:15
Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.


Both good AND evil come from God, for His purposes only. It is not for our feeble human "morality" to decide what is right; that is for God to determine.

Understand?